Reassurance required...Leica m8

[TRGRichie]

Hi all,
New to the forum and rangefinder photography (SLR & DSLR for years)

Now question is after enjoying shooting with a Epson rd1 for literally 30 minutes before the shutter jammed! - this camera is now on its way back to shop for refund - I now have the chance of a replacement RD1 or a Leica M8

1, will the m8 be more reliable, and if it does break is it still fixable

2, will it be as much fun as the Epson was?

3, given my limited budget is there any other options I've missed for digital rangefinder cameras?

Many thanks Rich.

 

[rfaspen]

Well, you're on a forum with a high percentage of Leicaphiles. But, there's plenty of RD-1 fans here too.

I have an M8u. Love it, especially for the price. I'm getting ready to sell it, not because I don't like it or had ANY unpleasant experiences with it. Only so I can fund the purchase of an M9 or M240 (both a substantial price jump from the M8).

The M8 has quirks, and folks will probably point them out. Not gloss over that, but you will almost certainly like the handling and the higher resolution and the 6-bit coding if you happen to have such lenses. I find the quirks plenty tolerable, and we have to remember, nearly all cameras have their quirks. It might be purely psychological, but it just feels good to shoot with an M. Yes, I've had the luxury of shooting with a wide variety of other cameras. I like the M's (both film and digital)

 

[Mike Fish]

I've got both

I've got both

I've got both an R-D1 and an M8. I like them both, but for different reasons.

I like the R-D1 for the way it handles like a film camera. I like setting the ISO with an easy to get to dial - no menus needed. I don't find the need to "wind" it an annoyance - it just feels natural. I like that I can flip the LCD out of the way and not see it or need to worry about it. On the down-side I seem to have to adjust the rangefinder on the Epson from time to time. It seems pretty delicate in terms of holding an adjustment. YMMV

I like the M8 because it is solid. It feels rugged - even compared to the R-D1, which feels pretty sturdy as well. And it has that familiar Leica feel. I like the viewfinder on the M8 better. The focusing patch is clearer and and the framelines are nicely centered. I like the files out of the M8 slightly more, but the Epson is no slouch. I like the LCD on the M8 - it's actually useful to view the images on. And if you're shooting RAW (and you should) I think any preference in either direction could probably be dealt with in post processing. And the extra megapixels are nice to have.

I think both are still repairable for some but not all issues.

The M8 feels like a Leica and the R-D1 feels like a film camera. If I could only keep one I'd keep the M8. As a matter of fact, this last weekend I went out with the M8, R-D1, and my Sony A7. I was trying to decide what to keep. I walked and shot with them all, using the same Zeiss Biogon 35/2 lens. Here is how I ranked them:

User Experience: 1) M8, 2) R-D1, 3) A7
JPG Rendering: 1) a tie M8 & R-D1, 3) A7
RAW file: 1) A7, 2) M8, 3) R-D1

Why these ranks?
User Experience: The A7 didn't feel like a Leica or a film camera, which is what I like. YMMV
JPG Rendering: Both RF had a more film-like JPG out of the camera. The A7 looked digital.
RAW file: I gave the A7 the edge because even though I don't like what it looks like before PP, I'm pretty sure I could develop a workflow that would address that. It gets the edge because more pixels to play with.

For me, the user experience factors in heavily. So I'm selling the A7. But its a personal choice.

If it were me in your shoes I'd go with the Leica. But it's not me. It's you.

-Mike

 

[uhoh7]

You will love M8. Simply one of the best cameras money can buy, even today. Crop is much less than RD also.

Don't crack the rear LCD, I think that's the one thing which cannot be repaired.

 

[rbelyell]

rd1: the only 1:1 vf in rf photography. its big, beautiful and fully immersive with your scene. you see the same with both eyes! m8: .65 vf so the view you get is not as big and lifelike.
rd1: only one set of framelines in the vf--so it is uncluttered, just your subject. m8: 2 sets of framelines always present, so it is more cluttered.
rd1: lets you use virtually any rangefinder lens without filters, without focus shift and without color shift. m8: must use IR filters on every lens because it cannot properly render black. it has color shift and focus shift issues with numerous lenses, especially wider angled ones.
rd1: lovely images up to iso 1600. m8: lovely images up to iso 640.
rd1: can be bought for $700-900. m8: $12-1800.

 

[uhoh7]

Don't let him scare you Rich. RD-1 is cool for sure. M8 is yet cooler for many of us, but not all.

Neither without various quirks LOL

 

[CameraQuest]

Hi all,
New to the forum and rangefinder photography (SLR & DSLR for years)

Now question is after enjoying shooting with a Epson rd1 for literally 30 minutes before the shutter jammed! - this camera is now on its way back to shop for refund - I now have the chance of a replacement RD1 or a Leica M8

1, will the m8 be more reliable, and if it does break is it still fixable

2, will it be as much fun as the Epson was?

3, given my limited budget is there any other options I've missed for digital rangefinder cameras?

Many thanks Rich.

Call Leica USA repair dept to make sure you get up to date accurate info,

however its my understanding there are no more M8/8.2 LCDs or sensors.

If your M8/8.2 can't be fixed, Leica may offer you a good price on an upgrade to an M240.

Stephen

 

[uhoh7]

I had thought they still had sensors, but I could be wrong on that.

Anyway, does anyone think spare parts for a RD1 are easier to find than M8?

http://r-d1.info/service-and-repair/spare-parts/

With a major issue on either camera, it would perhaps be more cost effective to sell as parts, and buy another.

 

[Range-rover]

Rich, I have one and love it the quirks are not many but the results are
great.

 

[Godfrey]

Hi all,
New to the forum and rangefinder photography (SLR & DSLR for years)

Now question is after enjoying shooting with a Epson rd1 for literally 30 minutes before the shutter jammed! - this camera is now on its way back to shop for refund - I now have the chance of a replacement RD1 or a Leica M8

1, will the m8 be more reliable, and if it does break is it still fixable

2, will it be as much fun as the Epson was?

3, given my limited budget is there any other options I've missed for digital rangefinder cameras?

Many thanks Rich.

As far as I can remember from the many conversations, the only component on the M8 that is not repairable at present is the LCD: The LCD panel is out of production and there are no stocks remaining.

Beyond that...

• I tried an R-D1: Didn't like it much and it turned out to have a fault, so I returned it and bought an M9.
• Liked the M9 much more (although I didn't love it), used it for three years.
• Traded up to the M-P when the M9 sensor needed replacement: I like the M-P as much or more than I've liked my film Ms, which is a lot.

I haven't used an M8 specifically; when I decided that the R-D1 was not for me I also decided to stick with an FF M digital camera as well. It makes things easier to have both my film and digital M bodies with the same format.

G

 

[TRGRichie]

Great feedback, I'm leaning more to the M8 so far.....

 

[Range-rover]

Great feedback, I'm leaning more to the M8 so far.....

It's really a great camera, out of all the digital I have it's the
best focusing one I have. The Leica rangefinder can't be beat
for that pinpoint focusing if it's off it's me.

 

[jaapv]

rd1: the only 1:1 vf in rf photography. its big, beautiful and fully immersive with your scene. you see the same with both eyes! m8: .65 vf so the view you get is not as big and lifelike.
rd1: only one set of framelines in the vf--so it is uncluttered, just your subject. m8: 2 sets of framelines always present, so it is more cluttered.
rd1: lets you use virtually any rangefinder lens without filters, without focus shift and without color shift. m8: must use IR filters on every lens because it cannot properly render black. it has color shift and focus shift issues with numerous lenses, especially wider angled ones.
rd1: lovely images up to iso 1600. m8: lovely images up to iso 640.
rd1: can be bought for $700-900. m8: $12-1800.

The RD1 has quite nasty IR contamination as well, using the Nikon D70 sensor. Maybe a tad less than the M8, but I would never use it without IR filter. The reason I had a filter on my M8 within 2 days in 2006 was that I knew the problem from the Nikon and recognized it. Sean Reid found the same in his comparison shots at the time, the article may well be on his site still.

 

[jaapv]

I had thought they still had sensors, but I could be wrong on that.

Anyway, does anyone think spare parts for a RD1 are easier to find than M8?

http://r-d1.info/service-and-repair/spare-parts/

With a major issue on either camera, it would perhaps be more cost effective to sell as parts, and buy another.

As far as I am aware there are still sensors for the M8 available, although there was a shortage a few years back.
But then, who would want to replace the sensor to the tune of 1500$ on a camera that can be bought for 1000$?

 

[View Range]

I own an early M8 (second batch), and it has never been open for repairs. I have no problem putting on the IR cut filters for color. B&W is better without filters, a limitation on the M9 and M240. I also use a Nikon D2x which is not full frame; so I have no problem with crop factors. I routinely print 13 x 17 inches with no sign of the sensor resolution limit. Once one has accepted filters, crop factor and sensor resolution, one can enjoy a great digital camera.

 

[rbelyell]

The RD1 has quite nasty IR contamination as well, using the Nikon D70 sensor. Maybe a tad less than the M8, but I would never use it without IR filter. The reason I had a filter on my M8 within 2 days in 2006 was that I knew the problem from the Nikon and recognized it. Sean Reid found the same in his comparison shots at the time, the article may well be on his site still.

have you used an rd1? i do every day. never a problem rendering black. never. leica instructs the m8 be used only with IR filters. there is no such issue with the rd1, not for me, nor have i ever seen nor heard any user complain about it.

 

[rbelyell]

Don't let him scare you Rich. RD-1 is cool for sure. M8 is yet cooler for many of us, but not all.

Neither without various quirks LOL

cool doesnt take pictures. i listed factual differences between the two that relate to useability and quality of results. i left out that the anyone can adjust the rd1 rf patch, but that is a costly and time consuming adjustment leica must do on the m8.

itd be better if you picked apart my factual comparison rather than rely on a red dot cool factor. unless we're all like 16 years old. ): i expected more from you U! whats really cool is the smile on my face every time i take out the rd1 and the smile i have when i review the results.

 

[Redseele]

I have had an R-D1 for about a year. I really liked how it rendered images which were very film-like. But I really wanted to try the M8 because of the files I saw. I am mainly a film shooter, so I really liked the R-D1 crank a lot too.

But then I tried an M8... the experience was much more refined and the camera really did feel much more like the Leicas I was used to. I liked that it was simpler, everything was better quality. Things are not just the products that come out of them (the pictures) but what I love about Leicas is that they make me really want to go out and shoot. I got that with the M8 and therefore I purchased a beater one relatively cheap (around $1300). I also loved the pictures that came out of it: sharpness as I've never seen in any other camera, colors that were (in my opinion) better than those in the R-D1, and an ISO 1200 that I use a TON for grainy black and white picture (just like pushing my Tri-X to 1600). I used it so much in so little time (I've been traveling around the US and Peru over the last few months) that at some point the crystal over the sensor cracked (it is a small crack on the lower corner) and yet I still love the pictures coming out of it.

In fact, I love it so much that I decided to take a jump and buy an M9... despite the fact that my rational self is telling me that I've invested way too much on cameras as of late.

BTW... this might sound like blatant advertisement but I'm selling my trusty M8 very cheaply. Check the classifieds section

 

[uhoh7]

cool doesnt take pictures. i listed factual differences between the two that relate to useability and quality of results. i left out that the anyone can adjust the rd1 rf patch, but that is a costly and time consuming adjustment leica must do on the m8.

itd be better if you picked apart my factual comparison rather than rely on a red dot cool factor. unless we're all like 16 years old. ): i expected more from you U! whats really cool is the smile on my face every time i take out the rd1 and the smile i have when i review the results.

LOL sorry. Look, you know way more about the Rd1 than I ever will. I respect your POV. More power to you to own and shoot a camera you love.

But what I know is there are tons of guys out there who really love the M8, and the OP should have reasonable confidence to try one. I also know the imagery from the M8 opened my eyes to digital Leica.

Like so many camera opinions, perspective is a factor. M9 is best camera available in the world today for what I like. Godfrey thinks I'm nuts LOL

Cool can mean alot of things, but I tried to use it in the context of the OP entering the RF world. No offense intended

 

[B-9]

Having owned both,

Go for the M8,

The reasons why have been nailed down in countless threads before this. Dare i say this rd1 m8 which to buy stuff has been beaten to the point im starting to ignore these threads.