This is Jorge's forum, it is a one-man operation, and he can run it like he wants to. And he does. Adding benefits for 'paying' members is a good thing; pay for what you get. Disabling popular features without warning is a sure fire way to lose members. A week's warning to clean up PM boxes, and that the max number would be rolled back to its original "20" would have prevented much confusion.
Pushing the "new improved" ads by disabling the system that we have used since the forums incept was not the way to do it. Re-enabling it, and then a week or so later, configuring it so that threads do not appear on the home page is equally poor.
I have not seen anything divide this forum as the Little Leica's have done. I've contributed in the past, and would like the "upgraded features", but I refuse to have anything below my name that states I have done so.
Myself; I have eliminated most of my attachments and my gallery to cut back from amount of disk space used, from ~140MBytes to 20MBytes. I will put a self-imposed no-archive on classified ads. I am going to post heads-up on my ads in the relevant forums, and the moderators may feel free to delete them
To avoid the absurd arguments, I'm limiting my posts to repair/technical threads.
This place needs to settle down. It is nothing like it was. Part of this is the reconfiguration of the site, new features, without regard to the feelings of the existing community. Part of it is the members letting tempers and emotions fly. But the day that one member states that another member should not be allowed to ask questions because they do not have a stupid little Leica by their name is the day that it went way to far.
Pushing the "new improved" ads by disabling the system that we have used since the forums incept was not the way to do it. Re-enabling it, and then a week or so later, configuring it so that threads do not appear on the home page is equally poor.
I have not seen anything divide this forum as the Little Leica's have done. I've contributed in the past, and would like the "upgraded features", but I refuse to have anything below my name that states I have done so.
Myself; I have eliminated most of my attachments and my gallery to cut back from amount of disk space used, from ~140MBytes to 20MBytes. I will put a self-imposed no-archive on classified ads. I am going to post heads-up on my ads in the relevant forums, and the moderators may feel free to delete them
To avoid the absurd arguments, I'm limiting my posts to repair/technical threads.
This place needs to settle down. It is nothing like it was. Part of this is the reconfiguration of the site, new features, without regard to the feelings of the existing community. Part of it is the members letting tempers and emotions fly. But the day that one member states that another member should not be allowed to ask questions because they do not have a stupid little Leica by their name is the day that it went way to far.
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Pherdinand
the snow must go on
what stupid little leica??
ok, never mind, it's not important in fact.
ok, never mind, it's not important in fact.
FrankS
Registered User
Brian, this is exactly what I was going on and on about several days ago. I didn't get anywhere.
R
RML
Guest
Change always causes people to take stands. Some for the old, some for the new. I personally don't really care. I donated. Didn't see a Lieca appear under my name, and couldn't care less. Would I need or use the new features? I don't know. Right now I don't have any need for them. Others might think differently. But I'm sure that in some time the storm has blown over. After it has, things will be back to normal, the new normal. Love it or hate, the goold ol' days weren't so good either. Remember the weekend-long site-down periods we had?
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
Brian Sweeney said:
You said it Brian, feels like a very different place than when Oscar first invited me to join. Just doesn't have the same warmth, charm, comraderie, and civility it once had. In the past few weeks, I've actually been surprised to see more civility on Pnet's Leica forum (imagine my shock).
I also agree with the myriad voices that the new Classifieds simply doesn't work.
This place feels like Washington's K Street now, and I don't mean that as a compliment.
back alley
IMAGES
i miss the civility and respect that were ever present before and i make a personal pledge to return to that mode of behaviour.
we used to think of the forum first and ourselves second and with some of the newer members that has changed. we can do something about that, i think.
for me, i think i will mostly ignore things/people that irk me, and not contribute to the bleeting.
joe
we used to think of the forum first and ourselves second and with some of the newer members that has changed. we can do something about that, i think.
for me, i think i will mostly ignore things/people that irk me, and not contribute to the bleeting.
joe
digital cameras didnt work either when it was introduced. Changes happen and they do here as well. You may continue to voice your opinion on this but I am moving it to a different forum because I am sure this thread will also get out of control eventually.
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
back alley said:
Joe,
I think you have been the primary force holding this place together. Your role as moderator has more support, spoken and unspoken, than you can ever imagine among us
FrankS and I have tried largely in vain to discuss this in other threads throughout this past month or two. There is a growing 'commercialism' about the site that is self-inflicted and self-invited. And little benefit has been seen for its changes. But, ultimately, as Brian noted, it is not our site, so really not within our control. While I'm sure someone likes the new changes and new commercialism, some of us find them alienating, unnecessary, and ill-advised. But, I suspect I'm swimming against the tide
This was valid site feedback.
This is my last post.
This is my last post.
Jorge, in Brian's post there are a couple request that do not effect the changes that have happened recently regarding the structure of the site. Most glaring to me is the ability of the members to choose or disable the little icon in the name header, that little Leica or Star. If that can be done it would be a small step which may make miles of difference.
back alley
IMAGES
in all fairness re. the 'commercialism'...this place has been run on jorge's dime from the beginning and it has grown to the point where more and expensive resources are needed for it to be worthwhile.
frankly, i could not afford to run it and jorge is feeling the pinch.
the little leicas are just a way of saying thanks to people and even they are in response to a request as the first icon was not a people pleaser.
i think we feel 'tainted' because some have made it their hobby to constantly remind others that they paid 25 bucks!
look closely and i think you will see the core of rff has not changed.
but change IS hard and we HAVE made some changes.
patience my friends...
joe
frankly, i could not afford to run it and jorge is feeling the pinch.
the little leicas are just a way of saying thanks to people and even they are in response to a request as the first icon was not a people pleaser.
i think we feel 'tainted' because some have made it their hobby to constantly remind others that they paid 25 bucks!
look closely and i think you will see the core of rff has not changed.
but change IS hard and we HAVE made some changes.
patience my friends...
joe
Michiel
Established
The following is trying to make a point of reason, not evoke emotions. Please read it as such, written by the calm and soft spoken fellow I am.
I thought his forum was nicely settling down untill this thread popped up. Why stirr things up again when the regular discussions finally really get going again?
Leaving is a solution to a problem one might be having.
Leaving and telling everyone about it is a solution to a problem one might be having and involving others in it.
Why stirr things up? Let it rest.
I thought his forum was nicely settling down untill this thread popped up. Why stirr things up again when the regular discussions finally really get going again?
Leaving is a solution to a problem one might be having.
Leaving and telling everyone about it is a solution to a problem one might be having and involving others in it.
Why stirr things up? Let it rest.
FrankS
Registered User
Jorge, you ask, "Why so few..."
Can I suggest we put this to a poll, and actually see how few there are who have a problem with the changes you've made. No one is begrudging you the right to have RFF self-supporting, but there are other ways it can be done. As Rover has said, some of these changes have no bearing on the financial unning of this site.
Can I suggest we put this to a poll, and actually see how few there are who have a problem with the changes you've made. No one is begrudging you the right to have RFF self-supporting, but there are other ways it can be done. As Rover has said, some of these changes have no bearing on the financial unning of this site.
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Frank.
No polls on the subject anymore. My decision is to leave itthe way it is now so polls wont matter at this point.
Yes some changes don't have any bearing on the financial but its how I like it. I am sorry that some dont like it but I do.
JT
No polls on the subject anymore. My decision is to leave itthe way it is now so polls wont matter at this point.
Yes some changes don't have any bearing on the financial but its how I like it. I am sorry that some dont like it but I do.
JT
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
Brian Sweeney said:
Brian Sweeney has stated that he left, but perhaps someone else could answer this: did one member tell another member that they should not be allowed to ask questions because they weren't a recognized financial supporter of the site? Or is the statement about something that could happen in the future? The language is kind of ambiguous.
Wondering in Halifax,
-Andrew
FrankS
Registered User
It has happened.
butch
Established
My two cents. I guess I've missed some of the posts where contributers have snubbed others. I gave for the sole reason that I felt that I was obliged to help to continue this site I enjoy so much. I did not ask for nor have I availed myself of any priviledge above what I have ever had. The old classifieds still have a brisk traffic. The forum has, as our friend from the East said, returned to some normalcy with thoughtful interest in other folk's questions or projects. No more do I go to church, hunt in a deer camp, or live with a couple of ex's on account of contention. But if I look over the few bumps, I think, I hope that eventually things will settle down.
I seldom pay attention to the icons but I do see that last line that records that member's post count. I know if he's a newbie who might ask something that I too need to know or, in the case of one I remember, a troll to be avoided or a total dummy or a genuine article to be listened to. I watched Jack Flesher and John Collier, two intelligent, super gentlemen, drop from the forum that I read (mainly because I wanted to hear their opinion on anything). They may have left for different reasons but the effect on me was the same as the effect would be if some of the respected, sage, and sane voices left here. When I see certain posters attach their names to a post, I have to read it. Their leaving would be the "change" that i would hate the most. The forum would survive because Jorge is obviously committed to its survival. But without you guys the forum really would not be same.
I seldom pay attention to the icons but I do see that last line that records that member's post count. I know if he's a newbie who might ask something that I too need to know or, in the case of one I remember, a troll to be avoided or a total dummy or a genuine article to be listened to. I watched Jack Flesher and John Collier, two intelligent, super gentlemen, drop from the forum that I read (mainly because I wanted to hear their opinion on anything). They may have left for different reasons but the effect on me was the same as the effect would be if some of the respected, sage, and sane voices left here. When I see certain posters attach their names to a post, I have to read it. Their leaving would be the "change" that i would hate the most. The forum would survive because Jorge is obviously committed to its survival. But without you guys the forum really would not be same.
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
FrankS said:
That's really pathetic. If I read that I would think far less of the person who made the comment than the member without the Little Leica of Recognition.
that would be unacceptable and the moderators or myself should remove such threads.
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
Good to hear!
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