Jarvis
in quest of "the light"
OK my last thread for this evening ....
I have been offered a late model (1956) Leica IIIf with a 50mm Elmar collapsable lens, it has 2 viewfinders beside each other, the film is a hassle to load, and the speed button values are on drugs ..... but it's a nice camera
Does anybody use a camera like this or is it just something you lock away in your cupboard ?
- How easy is it to use ?
- How is the quality of the Pictures, presuming I get the timing right ....
I have been offered a late model (1956) Leica IIIf with a 50mm Elmar collapsable lens, it has 2 viewfinders beside each other, the film is a hassle to load, and the speed button values are on drugs ..... but it's a nice camera
Does anybody use a camera like this or is it just something you lock away in your cupboard ?
- How easy is it to use ?
- How is the quality of the Pictures, presuming I get the timing right ....
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
Could be worse, could be a FED 2 with a capping shutter with a scratchy I-26. But then, I enjoy my FED with nearly those qualities. Its an adventure.
Why not enjoy the IIIIf, sounds like it could be fun camera to use. You might find yourself shooting differently and possibly seeing photos in a different light. That is.. if the price is right.
Why not enjoy the IIIIf, sounds like it could be fun camera to use. You might find yourself shooting differently and possibly seeing photos in a different light. That is.. if the price is right.
X
xcapekey
Guest
it's a keeper
it's a keeper
yes...it is a very usable camera...i have an even older version, the iiia, and it has a summar permanently parked on it...i take it everywhere i go....perhaps it isn't the quickest to use right away, but you can get fast with it...just like anything else, it takes time...
in some ways, i like it better than my M's...it's smaller and has a very antique look that people love...it disarms strangers when i tell them the camera is from 1934 and they usually let me take a few pics just to see how it works
if you got my photoblog many of my photos have been taken with the iiia in the last month
www.xcapekey.com/journal.html
it's a keeper
yes...it is a very usable camera...i have an even older version, the iiia, and it has a summar permanently parked on it...i take it everywhere i go....perhaps it isn't the quickest to use right away, but you can get fast with it...just like anything else, it takes time...
in some ways, i like it better than my M's...it's smaller and has a very antique look that people love...it disarms strangers when i tell them the camera is from 1934 and they usually let me take a few pics just to see how it works
if you got my photoblog many of my photos have been taken with the iiia in the last month
www.xcapekey.com/journal.html
Jarvis
in quest of "the light"
The price is right, actually I will be trading it for a Canon Eos 33 with 28-80 zoom, which belongs to my wife/partner, but never uses it, because of a switch to Digital ... (yaagh yes, but how easy are women to convince!?)
Jarvis
in quest of "the light"
But then I#me calculating a total overhaul to make the camera at least technically perfect and useable ... so this will cost me about 250€ ... the canon is stored in a cupboard anyway, this will not be missed .....
doubs43
Well-known
Jarvis, the IIIf in any of it's three versions is capable of results equaling any of the other 35mm cameras used by anyone else here. The Elmar lens is nice enough but isn't up to the better lenses and will be your limiting factor. However, don't sell it short either as it will take excellent images.
I honestly don't understand the problem people have with the Leica bottom-loading system. It's true that most - if not all - film sold commercially today is cut for newer cameras but it's not that difficult to cut the leader with sissors and load a IIIf.... or any other bottom loader.
If you have the IIIf professionally CLA'd, you'll own one of the slickest working cameras ever made by anyone. Silk-on-glass smoooooth is how I'd describe it. There's really no other camera I know of that has the same feel when you wind the film. That's true of all of the Leica knob-wind cameras.
If the price is good, buy it and use it. You won't regret it.... ever.
Walker
I honestly don't understand the problem people have with the Leica bottom-loading system. It's true that most - if not all - film sold commercially today is cut for newer cameras but it's not that difficult to cut the leader with sissors and load a IIIf.... or any other bottom loader.
If you have the IIIf professionally CLA'd, you'll own one of the slickest working cameras ever made by anyone. Silk-on-glass smoooooth is how I'd describe it. There's really no other camera I know of that has the same feel when you wind the film. That's true of all of the Leica knob-wind cameras.
If the price is good, buy it and use it. You won't regret it.... ever.
Walker
fraley
Beware of Claws
Jarvis,
If you are willing to try the IIIf, you may find it worth the effort. If not, you will be able to sell it here. There is quite an active market for these on ebay too, and they seem to go for a good price.
If you are willing to try the IIIf, you may find it worth the effort. If not, you will be able to sell it here. There is quite an active market for these on ebay too, and they seem to go for a good price.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
They are quirky and a pain in the backside to load film into. Once you get past that, they take photos as well as any other camera. The attached photo was taken using a screw mount leica and 35mm Summaron F3.5.
Bob
Bob
Grumblepunk
Greenhorn
I haven't posted in a very long time, but I would like to take this opportunity to give my take on screw mount cameras. I started with a Fed-2 and a Zorki-1, before adding a Leica IIIC to my group. As of now, I still only use Soviet glass. I love all three of these cameras, to death.
However, in my opinion, the learning curve is much steeper than it could have been with a better viewfinder. It took me forever to learn how to focus on the fly with such a dingy, dinky viewfinder on the Soviet cameras. The IIIC was a drastic improvement.
It's really just a matter of learning how to switch from one view, to the other. Odd as it sounds, I just sort of move the camera along my forehead to switch views. The finders are right next to each other, so just do a quick focus (easy on a rangefinder, with practice) and then shift the camera just a hair to get your scene.
Reloading is very daunting at first, but it will become second nature. I bought one of those film cutters on eBay and used it maybe twice. The first time I was walking around and realized I had forgotten to precut my rolls, I never used it again. You will become adept at just cutting the film with a pocket knife or Swiss Army scissors, on the fly. I remember that someone used to just use uncut film and a playing card to insert film, with no problems. I never had the cajones to try that and I honestly can't recommend it.
If you haven't already, familiarize yourself with Sunny-16, now. Print out a little card with all of the basic f-stop and shutter changes for a range of variables, to get you started. Refer to it whenever you aren't sure what you're looking at and what you need to set your camera to. Before you know it, you'll be making snap changes, as you go, with an accuracy within 1 stop or so. I understand that slide film is more forgiving for this, but I haven't tried that either.
Is the camera more trouble than it's worth? Oh absolutely. Without a doubt. In an age when there are cameras that switch their focus based on where your eyeball is looking, why would you bother with something that requires this much hands on user interpretation to use?
But ask yourself, do I need the gizmos? Do I need the meters and the auto-focus? Should I run headlong into a digital age that has yet to even explain itself or sort out it's own needs yet? Give the camera a few weeks. You'll find the finest mechanical photographic device ever made slides right inside your pants pocket. This is a camera that you can always have with you, with ease.
If you make your living as a portrait photographer or a photojournalist, then no, this camera is probably not the best thing to have in your hand when on assignment. Even then, only because of the expectations placed upon the profession. These cameras are all about the journey. Do they deliver the goods, at the end of the day? Ask HCB.
If you really want to have some fun, get your hands on an old VIDOM viewfinder. Rotate the eyepiece for a good upside-down and backwards view and go blow a few rolls of black and white. Nothing better for teaching your mind how to break away from the scene and look at the form.
I've recently sold my IIIC and my VIDOM. The IIIC, I don't regret so much, because the sale was neccessary to fund an M3. Not the most neccessary purchase in the world, but something about the M3 just eats at me. It's the most beautiful camera I have ever seen and my lust for them has gone on for too long. Now the VIDOM...I miss that in the worst way. I need to find another one.
I have no idea if any of this helped you, but I hope that it does. The IIIF is an amazing camera. Trust it and you will have many more good times taking photos, than you ever thought that you could.
However, in my opinion, the learning curve is much steeper than it could have been with a better viewfinder. It took me forever to learn how to focus on the fly with such a dingy, dinky viewfinder on the Soviet cameras. The IIIC was a drastic improvement.
It's really just a matter of learning how to switch from one view, to the other. Odd as it sounds, I just sort of move the camera along my forehead to switch views. The finders are right next to each other, so just do a quick focus (easy on a rangefinder, with practice) and then shift the camera just a hair to get your scene.
Reloading is very daunting at first, but it will become second nature. I bought one of those film cutters on eBay and used it maybe twice. The first time I was walking around and realized I had forgotten to precut my rolls, I never used it again. You will become adept at just cutting the film with a pocket knife or Swiss Army scissors, on the fly. I remember that someone used to just use uncut film and a playing card to insert film, with no problems. I never had the cajones to try that and I honestly can't recommend it.
If you haven't already, familiarize yourself with Sunny-16, now. Print out a little card with all of the basic f-stop and shutter changes for a range of variables, to get you started. Refer to it whenever you aren't sure what you're looking at and what you need to set your camera to. Before you know it, you'll be making snap changes, as you go, with an accuracy within 1 stop or so. I understand that slide film is more forgiving for this, but I haven't tried that either.
Is the camera more trouble than it's worth? Oh absolutely. Without a doubt. In an age when there are cameras that switch their focus based on where your eyeball is looking, why would you bother with something that requires this much hands on user interpretation to use?
But ask yourself, do I need the gizmos? Do I need the meters and the auto-focus? Should I run headlong into a digital age that has yet to even explain itself or sort out it's own needs yet? Give the camera a few weeks. You'll find the finest mechanical photographic device ever made slides right inside your pants pocket. This is a camera that you can always have with you, with ease.
If you make your living as a portrait photographer or a photojournalist, then no, this camera is probably not the best thing to have in your hand when on assignment. Even then, only because of the expectations placed upon the profession. These cameras are all about the journey. Do they deliver the goods, at the end of the day? Ask HCB.
If you really want to have some fun, get your hands on an old VIDOM viewfinder. Rotate the eyepiece for a good upside-down and backwards view and go blow a few rolls of black and white. Nothing better for teaching your mind how to break away from the scene and look at the form.
I've recently sold my IIIC and my VIDOM. The IIIC, I don't regret so much, because the sale was neccessary to fund an M3. Not the most neccessary purchase in the world, but something about the M3 just eats at me. It's the most beautiful camera I have ever seen and my lust for them has gone on for too long. Now the VIDOM...I miss that in the worst way. I need to find another one.
I have no idea if any of this helped you, but I hope that it does. The IIIF is an amazing camera. Trust it and you will have many more good times taking photos, than you ever thought that you could.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Jarvis said:
I have two IIIf's . One is a Red Dial like the one you are looking at and another that is a Black Dial. No, I would not recommend locking them away in the cupboard. In fact, I keep one loaded with B&W film and the other with color. The III's take wonderful photographes, provided they have been serviced in recent years and the photographer is well versed in old-school photography.
Except for the PC connection for a flash, this is pretty much a 70 year old design. It recquires one to slow down and think a bit. The IIIf is better for static subjects as oppose to those fluttering, impatiently, here, there and everywhere.
If you are gravitating from a FED 2 to a IIIf, you'll have no problem mastering the camera. I had the advantage of using old medium format folders as well, so the transition was pretty much seemless.
The RF is spot on the money, though it is like looking through a tunnel. The viewfinder is usuable for your 50mm Elmar. Let me mention that I invested in a 5cm bright-line finder and love it. Film loading is a bit inconvient. You really should trim the leaders before loading film into the camera, but is otherwise a 30 second operation and it helps to be sitting down. Flash photography is better done with 100 ISO film and I prefer using the Leitz bracket which put the flash off to the left side of the camera.
The bottom line this is a precision apparatus which will hold its own against many of its more more modern rangefinder decendents, but be slower to use.
Jarvis
in quest of "the light"
hmmmm sounds interesting, personally I like "manualism" I currently shoot wij an FM3a and a Hassleblad, both fully manual, well with the Hassleblad I don't have any choice, I work with handheld meters and grey cards and can pretty much guess exposure, this part I like.....
The thing that worries me a bit is the film loading, I have huge hands and bigger fingers and a finely adapted motorique I allas have not ....
Can you tell me something about the lens characteristics ?
The thing that worries me a bit is the film loading, I have huge hands and bigger fingers and a finely adapted motorique I allas have not ....
Can you tell me something about the lens characteristics ?
johne
Well-known
Jarvis,
Get a 35mm with viewfinder and watch how others react! That is worth the price of the IIIF. It is pure beauty [cranky to load but what a trip!]. Johne
Get a 35mm with viewfinder and watch how others react! That is worth the price of the IIIF. It is pure beauty [cranky to load but what a trip!]. Johne
aizan
Veteran
"The IIIf is better for static subjects as oppose to those fluttering, impatiently, here, there and everywhere."
hey, it never stopped evans or frank or _______!
hey, it never stopped evans or frank or _______!
doubs43
Well-known
Nikon Bob, that's a terriffic shot of the train! The clouds really add to the effect. The Summaron 35mm is a fine lens.
Walker
Walker
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Walker
Thank you, it surprised the heck out of me and so did an old pre war Elmar 50mm F3.5 after a cleaning by DAG. The old lenses, if in good shape, can still perform surprisingly well.
Bob
Bob
Thank you, it surprised the heck out of me and so did an old pre war Elmar 50mm F3.5 after a cleaning by DAG. The old lenses, if in good shape, can still perform surprisingly well.
Bob
Bob
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
I add my opinions to the others posted here that the IIIf (and Barnack Leicas in gneral) are fine shooters, as capable of making fine images as any camera manufactured today. If you buy the camera, do have it CLA'd; gummy shutter problems can appear at inconvenient times.
I've been using screw mount Leicas since 1963, before cameras were offered with on-board meters, much less TTL metering, full automation, or autofocus; I believe that I can speak from experience. You need control the Barnack Leica to make a photograph, the camera won't do it for you. If this is more effort than you're prepared to make, then don't buy the IIIf, you won't be happy with it.
The Barnack Leicas are tiny, and with a collapsible lens can be carried in a coat pocket easily. Learn to use the "sunny-16" rule and carry only the camera and a couple of rolls of film then enjoy the simplicity. The advantage of having a camera with you when photographic opportunities present themselves, as opposed to a fine instrument that was left home because of its size and bulk, is obvious.
Loading a screw mount Leica is different from most other cameras. It isn't difficult, just different and a skill readily mastered (by most people) with a bit of practice. If you continue to find loading a Barnack Leica difficult, use a business card or playing card to help loading, this works every time. Use rolls of 36 exposures and you won't have to load the camera as often is you are really annoyed by film loading.
The viewfinder is clearly smaller than in later cameras. Why this causes so much unhappy comment is puzzling. Visualizing a photograph occurs in your eyes and in your head. The viewfinder merely shows you the limits of the film frame. The Barnack Leica viewfinder will show you the limits of the frame as well as the finde on any other camera.
I've been using screw mount Leicas since 1963, before cameras were offered with on-board meters, much less TTL metering, full automation, or autofocus; I believe that I can speak from experience. You need control the Barnack Leica to make a photograph, the camera won't do it for you. If this is more effort than you're prepared to make, then don't buy the IIIf, you won't be happy with it.
The Barnack Leicas are tiny, and with a collapsible lens can be carried in a coat pocket easily. Learn to use the "sunny-16" rule and carry only the camera and a couple of rolls of film then enjoy the simplicity. The advantage of having a camera with you when photographic opportunities present themselves, as opposed to a fine instrument that was left home because of its size and bulk, is obvious.
Loading a screw mount Leica is different from most other cameras. It isn't difficult, just different and a skill readily mastered (by most people) with a bit of practice. If you continue to find loading a Barnack Leica difficult, use a business card or playing card to help loading, this works every time. Use rolls of 36 exposures and you won't have to load the camera as often is you are really annoyed by film loading.
The viewfinder is clearly smaller than in later cameras. Why this causes so much unhappy comment is puzzling. Visualizing a photograph occurs in your eyes and in your head. The viewfinder merely shows you the limits of the film frame. The Barnack Leica viewfinder will show you the limits of the frame as well as the finde on any other camera.
R
Richard Black
Guest
Jarvis,
My avatar was taken with a Leica IIIc with a, dare I say it Jupiter 12, Russian wideangle. All things considered make the trade. If you don't use it, you'll just hold it and admire the beauty. My IIIc was serviced by Oleg in Russia for a reasonable price including the shipping both ways. Except for the unique loading, it is a jewel. Quiet, you can't believe it.
My avatar was taken with a Leica IIIc with a, dare I say it Jupiter 12, Russian wideangle. All things considered make the trade. If you don't use it, you'll just hold it and admire the beauty. My IIIc was serviced by Oleg in Russia for a reasonable price including the shipping both ways. Except for the unique loading, it is a jewel. Quiet, you can't believe it.