Should I Buy A G10 ?

R

ruben

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I am really lost in temptation. Temptation kills.

So I will try to expose the pros and cons and do it in my most methodical manner, so you can re-direct me to the good path.

The statistic boring side.
The G10 is going to replace my A590is, my first digi which has revolutionized my daily life.

Being so small, ultracompact, and having AF, plus auto zoom, plus silence, plus different iso, plus either color or BW (saving me the need for two bodies)- ho boy, times have been changing while I was sleeping. Additionally, I must confess I don't have any significant issue with noise at high iso, as natural with grain with high iso film (I don't know what all the noise is about). With film I don't like grain. But with pixels, I do like noise. Strange world.

The A590is has not stopped to go with me for every single day and within the last two months I have counted some 850 shots, and unprecedented average for me since I stopped to free lance many years ago.

True, during these last couple of months several feasts took place, but the images were done. 850 shots divided per 36 (film roll) equals some 23 rolls of film, that put each one at $10 (film+processing+scan) means that the camera has paid itself twice. Or once plus if I had the plethora of small devices I purchased for it.

The G10 costs here in Israel $625, enabling 36 monthly negligible quotas. If I lower the relatively high average of 425 digital shots per month, to 300 (not every month a grand son is born !) this means that the G10 will pay for itself in analog film costs withing near to 8 months or 10 months if I indulge in some extra purchases.

Now why change my actual small wonder on behalf of the G10 ? Not dramatic issues but some:

a) I have processed within photoshop the G10 sample images provided by dpreview in the same way I process those of the A590is, and I cannot identify any difference. Nevertheless I am aware the computer screen lies, and in real prints the difference may show. But so far let's asume NO IMAGE QUALITY IMPROVEMENT, NO MORE DETAIL. Anybody is most welcome to educatedly challenge this or any other statement (of course !).

b) However the G10 comes with two tangible improvements, which I do welcome: the top shoe and the 28mm wide capability.

b1) The top shoe doesn't mean I will mount a flash there, since already in my A590is I use any external flash I own via a small slave touching the camera flash and sending the signal through a synch cord to the analog flash. All these mounted on a light bracket. So no EX flash expense required.

b2) But the top shoe will be usefull for mounting there a Soviet Universal Turret Finder.

As you know, the optical tunel viewfinder of both the A590 and the G10 are close to useless, or better than nothing, and certainly any digi without any kind of eye viewfinder is out for me.

The problem with the these better than nothing viewfinders is that you don't see all the image (85% for the A590is, 77% for the G10). Then there are the parallax issues.

And the main issue is trying to use them for autofocusing. In order to correctly auto focus with these optical tunels, is in guessing while viewing through them, the center spot that is shown in the camera LCD.

But for the shame of Canon, there is no sign or mark within the tunels providing for reference. Fortunately for humanity, those hated reds who dared to insult the original Zeiss turret finders with that comiccommie cross from edge to edge, making laugh so many folks, do provide for a central point, plus parallax mechanical manual correction.

Fortunately, Canon's G10 shoe, instead of Nikon p6000 digi top shoe, is axis centered above the lens.

My assumption is that even if both central spots do not coincide (that in the G10 LCD and the cross inside the UTF) , it will be easy to learn the difference.

The UTF will not be fixed to the G10, but mounted in time of need. So in case everything goes like I assume, I will have a real eyefinder autofocusing option, unprecedented in digitals unless they are DSLR, or semi DSLR.

c) Now lets deal with the 28mm wide. Here you are kindly asked to assume my viewpoint. I never found myself with the 35mm focal length. From the 50 mm focal length, my next stop wider where I found hapiness was ever the 24mm. The 28mm being a kind of default only.

But certainly the 28mm is for me a strong difference than max 35mm.

d) Following there are a lot of improvements on the paper that I don't know if they will really help or who among them will. I will not quote them as to save myself shame.

So this is my case, and you dear RFF reader are asked to pass your advice to me.

Perhaps I am too enthusiastic about the A590is, and instead of continuing with it I am going to sacrifice it. Perhaps the G10 improvements are not enough for the price.

Perhaps the price is not such a drama to extend about and no much harm will be done in case of minor feelings the day after. Let's hear you.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Ruben,
I'm in a similar position vis-a-vis the G10 but I don't yet have a digital camera. If I were you, and as I'm me it's the same story, wait for the new Olympus Micro 4/3rds which is expected next month, or at least an announcement that might tell us what exactly it's going to be. I'm hoping for a digital version of the Olympus Pen FT but based on the m43 standard which has a much bigger sensor, will be light and compact, and have a range of lenses available much as the Pen did, including some zooms.
I feel you have little to lose from waiting a month to see if the Oly is better than the G10, particularly in the viewfinder department.
 
I also think at the moment waiting for the Olympus m4/3 announcement is a good idea.

However, reading your thoughts on the G10, I would suggest having a look at the Ricoh GX100 or GX200 instead. These are smaller than the G10 and this way more pocketable, they have full manual controls, great handling, electronic leveler, the lens is faster and starts at 24mm-72mm plus you also get a EVF if needed with 100% coverage and full shooting information. You still have a hotshoe for your external OVF if needed and the step zoom means you can zoom the lens from 24-28-35-50-72mm so is easier to use an external OVF. You can get adapter lenses for 19mm and 135mm if needed.
 
Hi folks,

On behalf of the A590is I forgot to mention a highly desirable mode for a street photographer that it seems it is not found in the G10: when you select Hi Iso in Auto mode, the camera will will "identify", track, perform an unauthorized security check via satellite to Langley and return, and accordingly arrange iso and speed for mooving subjects.

It works. Perhaps not as intelligently as described but the camera will indeed keep aperture at widest, then speed at highest and iso at lowest.

Now lets go for size comparizon:

A590: 94 x 65 x 41 mm (3.7 x 2.6 x 1.6 in) 225 g (7.9 oz) (inc. batteries)
G10: 109 x 78 x 46 mm (4.3 x 3.1 x 1.8 in) 390 g (13.8 oz) (inc. batteries)

While I do accept the slight extra size of the G10 as negligible, I am in doubt if the new Oly micro 3/4 will be in the same boxing weight level. But perhaps someone here can throw a bit of light.

However concerning the Ricoh GX200, I have reviewed its features in some days ago and discarded for some reason I do not remember now. I have read now a review again and it looks very interesting camera. Perhaps, just perhaps and very cautiously, the critic that prompted me to discard it was related to the electronic viewfinder being dim - but I have not read it again or remember exactly abuot this. Therefore, so far it is an option for me.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
I can't believe it!

THREE YEARS of credit for a consumable device that could be dead before you've finished paying for it!

Ruben. Use what you have and enjoy it.

Richard, this has become my new mantra, "Use what you have." I have so much. However, I used to have a small Casio digital camera that fit unobtrusively in my shirt pocket. It revolutionized my life. I was literally taking pictures everywhere. I sat on it and broke it. Now I'm looking for another, but haven't been able to settle on one. It really needs to be shirt pocket size, not jacket pocket size, for me to carry everywhere. But I am sorely tempted by the likes of the LX3, pocketable, but not shirt pocketable. Once you catch the digital P&S bug, it's hard to recover.

/T
 
I can't believe it!

THREE YEARS of credit for a consumable device that could be dead before you've finished paying for it!

Ruben. Use what you have and enjoy it.


Dear Pitxu,

One of the differences between a "consumable device", like a TV for example, or coca cola bottle, and a photographic camera, is that you use the second to create - not just to passively enjoy.

This means by your economic language that the device may be dead long before the debt is paid, but the images will remain, and will remain long after the debt is consumated:). Kindly excuss me for reminding you these principles of photography, you do know but excluded in a slight excess of enthusiasm.

However, since the free 36 quotas are just an option for the consumer to choose, upon any RFF estimation of the G10 longetivity, the shop will be happy to get my money faster. It is me the one who is building on that 36 quotas the shop is going to loose and me to gain, since it is the shop the one to assume the risks.

The price of other shops selling it cheaper and without quotas leaves a margin of some $25 absolute bucks.

Or, it is still possible to establish the monthly amount on digital shots in analogue film cost terms, and divide the total price accordingly. In my opening post I estimated that within 8 to 10 months the camera will pay itself, had I been using film. Accordingly I can pay it to the shop in 10 quotas, if any good reason is given.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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However concerning the Ricoh GX200, I have reviewed its features in some days ago and discarded for some reason I do not remember now. I have read now a review again and it looks very interesting camera. Perhaps, just perhaps and very cautiously, the critic that prompted me to discard it was related to the electronic viewfinder being dim - but I have not read it again or remember exactly abuot this. Therefore, so far it is an option for me.

The EVF is dimm if you compare it to a clear and bright external OVF but it is brighter than some of the tiny OVFs you find on compact cameras. It is prefectly usable and since it is an add-on you can remove so it should not really get in the way of you using the add-on OVF.

I have reviewed the GX200 here and posted some images from it if you are interested: http://ricohgrdiary.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/ricoh-gx200-review-part-1/
 
.............
. Once you catch the digital P&S bug, it's hard to recover.

/T

Dear Tuolumne,

Instead of defending the lambs, with this argument you are rather feeding the lyons.:)

But let's face it bold. I have asigned myself a photoproject for weekends, which by now I have not started, requiring film cameras, special trip etc. It is lagging behind.

Now the question is if the digi P&S bug will promote more serious photography, or will become an instant decafeinated coffee.

It is even possible that more versatil and light digital tools will replace the heavy and biggy film cameras. But the test will be unescapable: will the extra effort required for my self assigned photoproject be done or not.

It is worth mentioning here, that my daily job leaves me quite tired and unusefull for the weekends, making my life hard during the working days and sending me to bed at weekends. At the same time I find I must fight this fatigue head on, otherwise my head will turn triangular.

Hence the basic question: Will the new enthusiasm of the small digi push me forwards or backwards? Will it become a substitute or a source ?

Cheers,
Ruben

PS,
I think that under this light Pitxu is unfortunately right: Better keep myself slightly digitally unsatisfyied with my A595is, than embark in a new gadget project that will drag my attention out from the main issues.:bang:
 
That's one quantum leap eh?

From fixing up your old FSU's, to going into debt for three years for a digi point and shoot.


Not exactly. According to the viewpoint, anyone may say that I was a dummy and remained a dummy. :)


Cheers,
Ruben
 
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I think I can add abit here. First some background about me. I am principally a digital shooter not an RF shooter. I have several DSLR's including a Canon 5DmkII. For me RF shooting is about having fun playing with film. I will probably get better but so far I have yet to take any really good film pictures, whereas I am quite proud of a number of the digital pictures I have taken. You can decide yourself if I warrant that self praise by looking at my flickr site in the "some of my favourites" set.

back to your issue. I had a Canon G7 which I enjoyed very much and gave to my son because I planned to upgrade to the G10. My main reason for wanting to upgrade is that the G7 doesn't allow you to process RAW images which the G10 does. You failed to mention this when you talked about the merits of upgrading. In my view that is the biggest advantage to you for upgrading.

Personally I was waiting for the prices to come down for the G10 prior to buying (shouldn't have waited, they went up....!). In the interim I saw a refurbished A590is which coincidentally is the camera you have. It was selling for one quarter of the price I would have paid for the G10. I agree it is a great little camera and have been very happy with the pictures it takes. In the interim it has satisfied my short term needs for a P&S.

I am still hesitating to get a G10 because my DSLR's meet the needs for my "serious" photography and I know that each year they come out with new and improved point and shoot cameras.

I am hoping for a bigger sensor and better ISO performance in a G10 sized body. Eventually I am sure one of the manufacturers will come out with such a camera....
 
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Ruben,

Depends on how much time you have to read the manual - you can do a lot with a G10, but there are more menus than there arefeathers on a chicken, and the full manual will be the size of Jerusalem if you try to print it off!

Having spent more than I spent on most of the rest of my collection for a G10, I mostly use it for quick-and-dirty p&s type shots because I just haven't found the time to get to understand it. Make sense of that!

Adrian
 
Ruben, I think you've talked yourself into it. That may not be a good thing. Wait three weeks. If you still want it; maybe then. [Buy fewer, do more?}

I think you are right in the same direction Pitxu is: this little new gadget will attract a lot of time.

We have a definition of GAS, Gear Attack Syndrome, but in the face of the digital invasion we should go further and invent a new term, pointing to the people subject to fall victym of the plague.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
..... My main reason for wanting to upgrade is that the G7 doesn't allow you to process RAW images which the G10 does. You failed to mention this when you talked about the merits of upgrading. In my view that is the biggest advantage to you for upgrading.

....

Yes, you may be probably right as I am quite ignorant of this raw issue. For me it is like recording in Wave rather than in Mp3. But here the analogy traps me since with a good music software, like the Roxio studio, I have produced myself a lot of good results questioning the compression obstacle - but I have no clue as for the edge of RAW in photography.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Ruben,

I know very little about digital cameras, however, Adorama has a lot of useful articles and information. According to a recent article, they actually reccomend the Lumix. I am also intrigued about getting my feet wet with a little digital camera, as i am discovering there are things that I can do with a digital camera that I cannot with my film camera, even on my best days; like infinite depth of field.

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.adorama.com/alc/article/8637

Hope this works, and helps.

:s:
 
I'd keep the 590is - even if you do decide to go for a G10, they will likely be priced much lower in 6 months or so ...
 
I'd keep the 590is - even if you do decide to go for a G10, they will likely be priced much lower in 6 months or so ...

I am cooling myself and stand by. But your argument about price should take into consideration that the G9 is being sold everywhere higher than the G10, and that the A590 carries no proportional price. The common line seems to be that new models are sold cheaper than previous ones, not that the same models lower price with time.

Anyhow, an interesting question.

Cheers,
Ruben

A590is in Auto Hi mode from a rolling car.


3576083454_4336dac227_o.jpg
 
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G10 or Oly m43?

G10 or Oly m43?

Ruben,
If, when the new Olympus Micro 4/3rds is announced and it disappoints in terms of size, specification, features etc, I think what I'm going to do is get a G10 and, to overcome the lousy viewfinder and give me something closer to what I'm used to, I'll get a Delkin Folding Viewfinder Hood for the 3 inch LCD screen (price $8 ex USA and available in silver or black) and attach that. With glasses on I think I could use it pretty much at eye level in much the same way as a normal viewfinder. Think about it.

Does anyone reading these posts have experience in using these types of hood?
 
I handled a G10 in Best Buy a while back, and while I love the feel of it, I'm not sure i want that many pixels crammed onto to very tiny chip. Also, I already have a 35 to 140 equivalent zoom, so I'd rather they stuck to the 6X 35 to 210 of the G7 and G9.

I'd suggest you stick with the A590 until it breaks. I'm still using a Sony V3, which has 7.2 megapixels. Other than the restricted (35 to 140) zoom, it meets all my needs for a digital P&S.
 
I've never used a G10, but I question whether it is worth upgrading just to get RAW capability when the sensor is relatively small. My only digi is an old Canon A520, which I use for snapshots. At lower ISO's, the jpg looks pretty good out of the camera and also I have no interest in trying to process RAW files for snapshots.

I agree with the other posters than said enjoy your A590 for what it is, a handy P&S. If you want better digital performance, I would consider a small consumer-grade dSLR or a Panasonic G1.
 
Very surprised at you for not taking the lens options...

Very surprised at you for not taking the lens options...

The Panasonic G1 has already been out using your FSU lenses with adaptors and a G1 body can be had for the price of a G10. Furthermore, when the Olympus m43 camera hits in 2+ weeks, it will also take all those adaptors, some of which will surely allow you to use your FSU lenses, and provide lens interchangability.

The G10 is not enough of a progression over the digital you now own to warrant the expense.... ok, so it looks like a rangefinder... So What... It's NOT!

I'm on track for the new Oly M43, and if I don't like what I see, I may wait for the second offering from Oly later in the year...Yes, they have two on the block for 2009. Barring that, I am getting the Panasonic G1 for an actual leap forward.
 
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