Sigma SD1m users feedback wanted

[Spanik]

I'm slowly thinking about getting a SD1m after the DP1m. I really like the output of the foveon but working with a screen at the back is not my thing. But I find myself doubting the wisdom of such a move and would like some input of users.

Have been looking at the Sigma lens lineup and there are hardly any wide primes. The widest is the 20mm which would become a 30mm eq on the SD1m. Not really wide, I'd prefer 28/24mm eq. And what I have found of photo's from the 20mm and 24mm weren't really that great. And the 15mm is already a fish-eye. What are alternatives?

Also, how well can you adapt old manual glas to this camera? I do read some very contradicting info on that.

And how easy is it to use old glass provided it is usable? Does the lightmeter still works? How well can you focus on the screen provided? There isn't any shop around that carry those to try out.

 

[Keith]

I'm having a bit of a love hate relationship with my SD1M at the moment!

I've just got home after a tedious day and seen your post ... I'll elaborate later when my head has cleared! 😀

 

[Spanik]

Hoi Keith, head cleared yet? 😀

Not much users from the reactions so far.

 

[Samouraï]

I've had the SD1M for a little while. It's the best handling body I've used (outside of an M3). The grip, the two dials, the tactile/clicky shutter release, the quietness of the shutter (the quietest I've heard outside of my M3, again); it has some dual motor mirror/shutter deal that reduces mirror shock and sound, the snugness of SA lenses on the gasketed mount, the battery door, etc. It's a beautifully designed camera. And the output with the 50art is absolutely astonishing in the right conditions. I just want to reiterate that the SA mount is literally the snuggest bayonet mount I have ever encountered.

Unfortunately, software and focusing speed sort of ruin the experience for me. My DP3/DP2M focus more quickly and in a larger variety of lighting conditions. That's why I bought the larger DSLR body and the giant DSLR lens: for quickness of operation (the merrills and the a7r have been too slow for me). But it's simply slower than the lot of them. And the biggest issue is that, in order to actuate the shutter in AF mode, one must receive a confirmation of focus from the camera before the shutter will release. So if I want to manual focus override (while still in AF mode on the lens, which is a perfectly common practice), I cannot release the shutter. What? Crazy and infuriating. I do prefer CF cards, but the faster speed of them vs my SD cards makes no difference. Also, the DP Merrill software is much prettier and snappier than the SD1M's.

I purchased a new-condition body for somewhere in the $900 range. I think I'll probably try to sell it again after these tests. It's physically probably the best camera body I've handled besides my Leica M3 (again). It is a work of art. And I want to love the camera, but the handling speed is probably slower than my DP Merrill cameras (which is so backwards in my mind).

 

[Spanik]

Thanks. Slowness isn't much of an issue for me. It will be replacing a 300D for general snapshots and if all goes well a M645ProTl for travel photography. Neither of those are speed kings. I find the AF of the DP1m fine. Likewise the limitation to 400iso won't change much compared to film.

Have you tried it with (old) manual focus lenses? I haven't checked, but is there a decent diopter included or can it be added without issue? I can focus the M645 easily but then it has a large and bright viewfinder. The 300D on the other hand is almost impossible to use manually for me.

 

[burancap]

I like the idea of a Foveon DSLR primarily to escape the impossible-to-see LCD of the DP series when outdoors. Slow focus wouldn't bother me if I could actually see my framing!

That said (and not having any knowledge of SA mount lenses), I do not need another system -and I otherwise like the DP handling, but...

Looking forward to more responses!

 

[Samouraï]

The diopter and viewfinder are good, though not as nice as a 100% one from Canikon. It is rated at 98% coverage. With a 50 on the camera, I can shoot with both eyes open (like with my M3). I am nearsighted, and the diopter is enough to correct my vision. Operation is slower than the DPMerrills, I think, but then I've had more practice with those cameras. But I would heartily recommend the camera if you think it won't be an issue, as everything else about it is the tops.

 

[GaryLH]

The sd1m af speed is about like the old Nikon d200 or so.. There are times when it is slower then the dp Merrill's and there are times it is about the same or even slightly faster. Since it is using phase detect as opposed to contrast, if the new af point is close to previous, the af speed can be better for example.

The viewfinder screen is nothing to write home about, it is a plain jane design since af is the primary mode. Not good for manual focusing unless u have good eyes (no astigmatism or old eyes like mine).

Overall handling of the camera is one of the best dslr I gave used in a while. If u know dp Merrill configuration setup, the sd1m is a variation of that. Great grip and shutter release setup.

I bought the sd1m so I could use lenses other than what was available on the dp series. Unlike the lenses that were specifically designed for each dp model, these are designed to work w/ an number of different camera makers like Canon and Nikon lenses. Only the art line of lenses are as good or better than the lens on your dp Merrill.

For example, I wanted faster than f2.8, wider than 28fov and longer than 75fov for macro. I ended up w/
- zooms
-- 10-20, 12-24, 17-70 and 18-200
-- the sharpest zoom I own is the 17-70
- fixes focal
-- 30f1.4 art
-- 50f1.4 non-art
-- 70f2.8 macro

None of the sigma cameras are good for any action photography unless u are ok w/ zone style or u got good eyes and can focus fast manually.

Anyway good luck.
Gary

 

[Spanik]

Thank for the input Gary (and others). I read your thread recently so it gavis a good idea. I had my eyes on the sd1m with the 17-50/2.8. The 10-20 is also on my list.

Your mentioning of asitgmatism however is something to worry about. I suffer from that. With the P6 it isn't an issue as I had a diopter made to spec. But if the screen isn't something to write home about (like the 300D) then I'm not so sure this is a good idea.

Got the same reason as most og you to get a sd1m: the focal lenghts og the dpxm isn't to my liking. The output certainly is but I'm missing a 35mm soo hard. Faster than 2.8 isn't an issue either. I'm used to 2.8 and slower, much slower sometimes like when using the G690BL or RF645.

The thing that draws me towards the Foveon is the likeness to MF slides. I cannot help it but when I look at what the dp1/2m gives me it is so medium format like that I feel that maybe it would be a good move. It has the same limitation to speed (400iso), slow, deliberate, everything has to be right (light, subject, time, phase of the moon) but so rewarding when you nail it. The only thing so far it is miles behind MF slides is stained glass. I haven't seen better than a Provia 400X so far. Even my old Kodachromes can't match that. But it can be that I now understand lightmetering such a thing better now.

I don't know why everybody is so focussed on "speed". I couldn't care less. I'm coming from medium format 645ProTl, C330 and P6 (or worse like a Korelle Reflex). Neither of those are high speed engines. When I'm on holiday, by the time everybody of the family has seen the whole thing I'm about ready to start taking pictures. Since I drive this isn't a big problem 😀 Most of my photography doesn't include humans but architecture, landscape, cityscape, things like that.

Problem is that my budget is limited. I cannot pretend that buying a camera and sell it if I don't like it doesn't hurt. That combined with buying into a lens system that isn't compatible (or even adaptable) to anything else is a risk.

 

[Keith]

I've had the SD1M for a little while. It's the best handling body I've used (outside of an M3). The grip, the two dials, the tactile/clicky shutter release, the quietness of the shutter (the quietest I've heard outside of my M3, again); it has some dual motor mirror/shutter deal that reduces mirror shock and sound, the snugness of SA lenses on the gasketed mount, the battery door, etc. It's a beautifully designed camera. And the output with the 50art is absolutely astonishing in the right conditions. I just want to reiterate that the SA mount is literally the snuggest bayonet mount I have ever encountered.

Unfortunately, software and focusing speed sort of ruin the experience for me. My DP3/DP2M focus more quickly and in a larger variety of lighting conditions. That's why I bought the larger DSLR body and the giant DSLR lens: for quickness of operation (the merrills and the a7r have been too slow for me). But it's simply slower than the lot of them. And the biggest issue is that, in order to actuate the shutter in AF mode, one must receive a confirmation of focus from the camera before the shutter will release. So if I want to manual focus override (while still in AF mode on the lens, which is a perfectly common practice), I cannot release the shutter. What? Crazy and infuriating. I do prefer CF cards, but the faster speed of them vs my SD cards makes no difference. Also, the DP Merrill software is much prettier and snappier than the SD1M's.

I purchased a new-condition body for somewhere in the $900 range. I think I'll probably try to sell it again after these tests. It's physically probably the best camera body I've handled besides my Leica M3 (again). It is a work of art. And I want to love the camera, but the handling speed is probably slower than my DP Merrill cameras (which is so backwards in my mind).

This pretty well reflects exactly what my thoughts are about the camera. Huge potential let down by a god awful AF system and the software!

I've currently gone back to using my DPMS .... but I doubt that I'll sell the SD1M because it still does have a purpose in 'some' situations.

 

[GaryLH]

Thank for the input Gary (and others). I read your thread recently so it gavis a good idea.

"Gavis"?

Gary

 

[Spanik]

Should have been "gives". Sorry about that but my typing is even worse than my photography 😀

Problem is that while it assures me of some points, it also raises others. And it doesn't help deciding. From what I get of it, the SD1m isn't a good idea if it is your only camera. And I'd like it to be my only digital camera. And as it has "yet another mount" that means getting 2 full systems that can share nothing. It's also a pity that for the instances where the SD1m falls down (like low light), a pocket camera isn't much better.

 

[Keith]

As an 'only' digital camera ... never!

I think I miss more shots with my SD1M than any camera I've ever owned! 😛

 

[Spanik]

Keith, do you miss those photo's because of the slowness of operation/AF or other reasons?

I'm going to use it for travel: cityscapes, landscape, interiors, achitectural details etc. No races, moving children or pets. I don't carry a flash now and have no intention to do so. Most of it is without tripod but more improvised supports. Outside with a monopod. I can live with the 400iso as I don't have better film at the moment either. But I'd need to be -more or less- sure that it will cope. So far my experience with stained glass for instance has been less than convincing (manual metered like I'd do for MF slide).

If I would compare it to an old medium format digital back, would that go?

The camera's I miss the most shots with are the old Fuji rangefinders when using the external finders. Expensive with 6x9.

 

[Keith]

Keith, do you miss those photo's because of the slowness of operation/AF or other reasons?

I'm going to use it for travel: cityscapes, landscape, interiors, achitectural details etc. No races, moving children or pets. I don't carry a flash now and have no intention to do so. Most of it is without tripod but more improvised supports. Outside with a monopod. I can live with the 400iso as I don't have better film at the moment either. But I'd need to be -more or less- sure that it will cope. So far my experience with stained glass for instance has been less than convincing (manual metered like I'd do for MF slide).

If I would compare it to an old medium format digital back, would that go?

The camera's I miss the most shots with are the old Fuji rangefinders when using the external finders. Expensive with 6x9.

It's symptomatic of my aging eyes and the fact that I like to focus manually where I can. The viewfinder of the Sigma just isn't up to the task of manual focusing IMO .... especially when using something like the 50mm f1.4 wide open in average to poor light.

I guess I've been a little spoiled by the excellend finder in my D700 ... that and it's nearly idiot proof AF.

 

[GaryLH]

For the type of shooting u do, Spanik... it should be ok..since nothing is moving in those shots. If u shoot above iso 400, try switching to b&w mode, u can go higher iso. There is a diopter adjust on the right side of the eyecup. Trying to manual focus a f1.4 lens wide open is going to be problematic since there is no really anything like a ground glass or split image or any other type of center area focus aid that u saw in the old film slr's. It is pure clear glass, so u need good eyes.

The af is slow compared to today's dslrs or mirrorless cameras. When I first bought it I thought af speed was a bit better, over time as I used it in more situations, I noticed it was a bit slower than my initial impression.

I use my sd1m mainly like u, but also include macro work as well. In that role, it is fine. I do not use it in situations where object are moving at faster than normal walking.

I find it has one of the worst auto white balance algos of any modern dslr. The camera has trouble in terms of overloaded sky sometimes. I think it maybe when the blue top layer of the sensor gets overwhelm and could be bleeding info into the other layers. The affect is a magenta cast sometimes. If u are good with photoshop, it can be fixed in post processing.

Other than the to the Leica monochrom, it could be the best b&w camera out there (the dp and sd Merrill's that is).

In US, I think lensrental.com has the sd1m for rent.. In Europe, Jon, was able to pick up a sd1m w/ the 17-50 for a better price than the body alone in US from Amazon Germany. He took it on vacation for about a week or two and decide it was not for him. Amazon Germany allowed him to return it.

Gary

 

[GaryLH]

Should have been "gives". Sorry about that but my typing is even worse than my photography 😀

Problem is that while it assures me of some points, it also raises others. And it doesn't help deciding. From what I get of it, the SD1m isn't a good idea if it is your only camera. And I'd like it to be my only digital camera. And as it has "yet another mount" that means getting 2 full systems that can share nothing. It's also a pity that for the instances where the SD1m falls down (like low light), a pocket camera isn't much better.

No problem.. I am probably worst, I don't catch a lot of iPad invalid auto corrects.

In low light, night time shooting I have used an iso as high as 4000 and played games w/ the color mixer to get rid of the noise, if u are ok w/ b&w mode shooting. U need to be shooting static subjects so the af can lock since it will be a bit slower. Check out the high iso sticky I posted.

Gary

 

[GaryLH]

Another consideration.. The new Quattro dp series should hit shelves by end of summer. I would hope that a new Quattro version for the sd would not be far behind. The new Quattro sensor is a different design. Whether it is better than the current Merrill version, only time will tell. But on the dp version they claimed to have improved by one stop the high iso and af speed. The Quattro not only has new sensor but new digital path components (CPU and d/a circuits).

I am going to pick up the dp2 Quattro when it becomes available.

Gary

 

[Eric T]

Spanik,
I have had the SD1m for well over a year now. I like being able to use the Foveon X3 sensor at multiple focal lengths. It is slow but I don't miss that many shots because of the slow AF. I just don't use the camera where speed is required. Under low light situations, I need to be content with B&W images.
Converting the xf3 files to tif is time consuming but I think the result is worth it.
I miss not having live view and the viewfinder is disappointing but again, the images are worth it.
For me, the inconvenience associated with using this system is worth it and Sigma making some absolutely brilliant lenses these days.
This camera is teaching me patience - something I sorely needed.
Eric

 

[GaryLH]

Here is link to the sd1m rental

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/compact/sigma/sigma-sd1-merrill-sigma-35mm-f1.4-dg-hsm-a1-kit

Gary