Small digital camera for students?

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hello,
I'm planning to teach photography basics to a group of young boys and girls who seem interested in street photography...
I think for them it would be easier and more rewarding not shooting film in the beginning, so I wonder if you forum members know of a small, not too expensive camera with the basic requirements for the task:
1) Small camera, not a DSLR.
2) Aperture has to be manually set to f/8 all the time.
3) No autofocus: the camera must be capable of being prefocused to 8 feet.
4) 35mm lens equivalent.
5) Shutter lag close to zero.
Thanks a lot!
Cheers,
Juan

 

[taemo]

what are you trying to teach about street photography exactly?
if they have cellphones, especially iphones I find them to be a great street camera.

i know you said not to shoot film but another option i would suggest is for them to shoot with disposable film camera.
for them to go out and shoot what they find interesting and seeing the pictures after developing/scanning/printing is an awesome experience.

 

[chikubi]

Closest thing to that would be a used Ricoh GR-D 1,2,3, or 4. Only tradeoff would be a 28mm equivalent instead of 35mm; the rest it would meet.

 

[Scrambler]

Hello, I'm planning to teach photography basics to a group of young boys and girls who seem interested in street photography... I think for them it would be easier and more rewarding not shooting film in the beginning, so I wonder if you forum members know of a small, not too expensive camera with the basic requirements for the task: 1) Small camera, not a DSLR. 2) Aperture has to be manually set to f/8 all the time. 3) No autofocus: the camera must be capable of being prefocused to 8 feet. 4) 35mm lens equivalent. 5) Shutter lag close to zero. Thanks a lot! Cheers, Juan

Once you sort 2and 3 you should be fine for 5. And if you interpret 4 as "wider than 40mm" the most accessible options are ... Smartphones. Either iOS 8 or Android manual photography apps. The students are bound to have the hardware.

 

[GaryLH]

If u are ok w/ max of iso 400 what about the pre-Merrill DP2, DP2s, or DO2x. They use a 40ish fov, slightly smaller than apsc but bigger than m43 sensor. They have a thumb wheel to pre-set distance. Can manually set f stop. In the states I am seeing them between 150 to 300 (DP2x is most expensive). They require use of their Sigma's own spp sw, but some have said LR will work on the early raw files (pre-Merrill .3xf).

Writeup from a street photog who gas used these cameras.
http://www.yanidel.net/gear/sigma-dp3-wishlist/

Not sure how easy where u are to pick these cameras up.

The other option is go first gen m43 w/ Olympus 17f2.8 or 20f1.7. Per focus it at distance required. Or buy legacy adapter for old lenses slr or rf. To use scale on lenses accurately will need to shim the adapter u pick for correct infinity focus unless u are will to buy a high quality adapter like the voightlander so that Cameraquest sells.

First gen m43 cameras are running about 125-200. The Olympus is pretty cheap 150 range used, the pano is a bit more used. No evf though unless u want to pay extra.

If u are willing to shim the adapter...cheap ones can be had for under 30 and decent cheap old slr or Russian rf lens will come in cheaper than Olympus 17f2.8 I mentioned.

In apsc, the first gen Sony Nex cameras are cheap and u can use the same legacy lens adapter trick. I hate the Nex UI though.

If u don't mind a 24-56 zoom, there is the Panasonic lx3. Has a manual focus mode which uses the mini-toggle that say quick menu when in mf mode. Can use PSAM mode. These are pretty old cameras, now 4 generation old, so they can be had cheap.

If it was me I would go w/ the old Olympus claim shell rf.. It is a 35f2.8 which has a red mark for setting up the lens to correct focus at f8. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of that camera right now.

Good luck.. I'm sure those kids are going to enjoy themselves 🙂
Gary

 

[GaryLH]

Looked it up at Cameraquest... Love the classic camera info over there thanks to the head bartender. 🙂

Olympus XA.. The camera I finally got comfortable w/ zone focus w/. ..a long long time ago 😛

Gary

 

[aizan]

what's the maximum price?

you can get a fuji x10 for around $200-250.

 

[YYV_146]

Why would you have the aperture manually set at f8? I find some degree of separation desirable in nearly all street photographs. And I don't like 35mm for street at all - 28 or even 21mm strikes me as a better focal length, for its enhancement of the background relative to the subject.

For your question I'm not sure if you can fix the parameters for modern digital cameras. A fixed 35mm digital body won't be cheap as well. Maybe ask students to download a smartphone app which allows manual focus? Most smartphones are 28-40mm in equivalent focal length and f8-f20 in equivalent DOF.

 

[btgc]

Group of young boys and girls.....why force them into old school devices like camera? They already have one in their phones, their natural tool. Unless you want to screw their parents for several hundreds, of course. And they will not have to sell aged camera and adapters at loss after they are done with it.

 

[btgc]

How much film/dev/scan do costs and if they will have funds for it...or will to take money from their daily needs and move into film route....to end up with scans anyway. Or they are supposed to print themselves in darkroom?

 

[Scrambler]

How much film/dev/scan do costs and if they will have funds for it...or will to take money from their daily needs and move into film route....to end up with scans anyway. Or they are supposed to print themselves in darkroom?

Is this post lost? The OP asked about digital cameras. I agree with your earlier post that a smartphone should be adequate.

 

[lynnb]

Hi Juan, can't help you with the camera recommendation but have you considered that f8 on a small sensor has deeper dof than f8 on a larger sensor, assuming both cameras have focal lengths that give FF 35mm-equivalent fov? i.e. f8 on FF = about f5.6 on APS-C = about f4 on micro 4/3 = about f2.8 on 1" sensor (only in terms of dof, not light gathering capability).

 

[btgc]

Is this post lost? The OP asked about digital cameras. I agree with your earlier post that a smartphone should be adequate.

this were my response to post about disposable film cameras which disappeared later.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Thanks everybody!
Yes, Lynn, that's why I thought digital would be fine for them at f/8, because of a great depth of field at that aperture considering the smaller sensor...
About smartphones, forcing students into old style, etc., not at all... It's not me: they definitely want to use cameras instead of phones... That's precisely the heart of this story... And after some time, they will shoot film, because that's what they want: film is attractive. Film cameras are cool, they say... Yet I think they can learn basics for some time on digital bodies, avoiding film processing and being able to check composition, light, etc., every day without much extra chemical effort...
I'll check the recommended cameras... Thanks!
Cheers,
Juan

 

[Spanik]

If they want to end up using film, then I don't see a reason not to start with film straight away. Only problem is finding 12 shot film because 36 might be a bit too much to start. If you're going to "school" them on a small sensor and they then have to adapt again to film it could be frustrating. Finding some small preselectable camera would be easier than a cheap digital that allows to do what you want.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

If they want to end up using film, then I don't see a reason not to start with film straight away. Only problem is finding 12 shot film because 36 might be a bit too much to start. If you're going to "school" them on a small sensor and they then have to adapt again to film it could be frustrating. Finding some small preselectable camera would be easier than a cheap digital that allows to do what you want.

Hi Spanik,
The reasons for using digital in the beginning were clearly exposed.
They don´t want to start by learning how to develop film: they want to see their photographs easily.
They're kids...
I don't see the digital camera as something they'll throw away: it can do great photographs too, for many years, and they'll use it no matter if a film camera is in their hands in the future.
I won't "school them on a small sensor": all they´ll do on digital will be just the same with film... IMO they won´t have to adapt photographically in any way, just learn how to develop, if that´s the game they decide to play after enjoying photography...
I understand they want to have fun, so to start with that's what I'll give them by now.
Cheers,
Juan

 

[taemo]

the closest digital camera that meets your criteria of pre-focusing would indeed be the Ricoh GR with snap mode (2.5mm) but these are 28mm focal length and still command quite a price used (~$250 for GRD III and ~$400 for GRD IV)

otherwise if you want a P&S for under $200 that has more controls then maybe the Fuji X10 and maybe even the Canon S90/95/100

 

[Spanik]

I understand your reasons, but your list isn't compatible with a small cheap camera. The more or less manual options you look for are typical for more advanced (and more expensive) camera's.

The Sigma DP1x (28 instead of 35) could work but I find them more frustrating to use (got the DP1m) than to learn to develop.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Sure, maybe it won't be really cheap... Any camera with a knob for aperture or with a lens with aperture ring, won't be cheap... But maybe there are digital point and shoot cameras that allow setting a specific f-number and a point of prefocus even if it's not done in a fast or comfortable way... It's set once, and if camera isn't turned off, it remains ready for snapshots in the street... I'll take a look at Ricohs and Canons...
Cheers,
Juan

 

[btgc]

Sigma DP (original model) cameras need more than one good batteries (not cheapest knockoffs, that is) and computer to run SPP (that is, phone or tablet isn't enough and many people this days don't have a PC or Mac). And to see it lasting, $40 magic wire from Chinese guy which allows to fix lens extended permanently. And finally, grip is icing on the cake. Sum that up and purchase price can double, without computer I mean.