Some Soviet gears began to demand high prices

[zhang xk]

Hello everyone,

I noted that some less common Russian cameras, or cameras, lenses in excellent conditions began to demand a much higher price these days than what they cost a couple of years ago in China. Early Kiev 2s, Leningrad, Jupiter-9, MTO 1000,etc demand a price 2-3 time of what they cost a few years ago.

MTO 1000 cost a bit more than RMB 1,000 a few years ago, but now they demand about RMB 3.000. A 1951 Jupiter-8 may cost RMB 850. And this J-12 made in 1948 asked for RMB 2,600.:bang:

I still saw many items listed on the big bay, and the prices are relatively low than in China. I am not sure how long it will last. It seems to me that Russian gears began to be recognized.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[Bluesman]

Overpriced - no. Not yet . Hyped and thereby made popular? Yes, by people like us RFF freaks that have realized the "charm" of these FSU cameras and lenses. The supply of FSU cameras/lenses is not endless, so as demand goes up, prices will go up. Besides - cameras/lenses are about the only FSU-produced things worth buying, and the sellers have realized it. So, they are trying to make a buck or two while they can. Quite understandable. The profit on each camera/lens is huge in Russian/Ukrainian terms (buy for a song, sell for good Euro:s/USD), and the prices in the "western" world are still very low compared to the big brands. It´s a win-win situation - until the supply is gone, and/or the seller gets too greedy and the buyer goes elsewhere. Or the demand goes to zero ´coz there is no more film production (God forbid).


Cheers /Richard

 

[rxmd]

Hi Richard,

cameras/lenses are about the only FSU-produced things worth buying

Not quite, you have at least watches as well, and some people would include binoculars (and possibly guns).

Not in the same category, but some would include a few models of cars as well, notably the Lada Niva (now built by Chevrolet) which is a very nice compact 4x4 offroader and surprisingly popular in the West.

The profit on each camera/lens is huge in Russian/Ukrainian terms (buy for a song, sell for good Euro:s/USD)

It's not as easy as that. I've had some insights into FSU camera economics here because a good friend is dealing in cameras here in Tashkent. It's true that you can buy a good FED-2 for $5 and a Zorki-6 for $10 here, and then probably resell them to the West for $20 or $40 respectively, so it looks like a clean 300% profit margin for the seller. On the other hand, for that he has a lot of effort:

- Getting the cameras. This is more work than it sounds. With common models, for every good camera that can be sold to the West he has to look at at least five worn down, dead cameras that can't be sold at all. If you think the cameras you buy off eBay are bad, if you unlikely enough happen come to Tashkent until September I can show you the mass of neglected junk out of which these are the best picks. Getting good cameras requires a lot of time. With rare models they have to be tracked down. If I go phone my dealer tomorrow and ask him whether he can get me a Kiev-5 within four weeks, he will probably say yes, but then he will do twenty phonecalls to other people who also want their own little share of the profits, and this all drives prices up.

- Getting the cameras overhauled. Western customers are picky. You want to sell cameras in good shape. For that you need a repairman. Any idiot here will claim that he can repair a camera, but skilled repairmen are surprisingly rare over here, and this tends to drive prices up.

- Getting the cameras out of the country. Most FSU countries still have a regulation in place that everything over 50 years in age needs an export license, and this already begins to cover Zorki-5s and FED-2s. Here in Uzbekistan you aren't allowed to export cameras at all, so you have to bribe the customs man to close both eyes. Also there is some privatisation within the postal system going on, so you might have to establish a good working relationship with the head of your local post branch. All this costs money, too.

- Last not least: getting the necessary skills to sell cameras. For example you need to be more or less conversant in English. This is not common over here in the generation over 35, and learning languages costs money. Corollary: if you come here with working knowledge of Russian, you can save a lot of money on camera purchases, because you get to deal with all those people who don't have the opportunity to deal on eBay.

All in all, FSU camera dealers have quite slim profit margins. If someone sells you a $100 camera, he probably paid something like $20 for it, but I bet he doesn't make a net profit of more than $5.

Philipp

 

[jonmanjiro]

Hi Richard,


Not quite, you have at least watches as well, and some people would include binoculars (and possibly guns).

Not in the same category, but some would include a few models of cars as well, notably the Lada Niva (now built by Chevrolet) which is a very nice compact 4x4 offroader and surprisingly popular in the West.


It's not as easy as that. I've had some insights into FSU camera economics here because a good friend is dealing in cameras here in Tashkent. It's true that you can buy a good FED-2 for $5 and a Zorki-6 for $10 here, and then probably resell them to the West for $20 or $40 respectively, so it looks like a clean 300% profit margin for the seller. On the other hand, for that he has a lot of effort:

- Getting the cameras. This is more work than it sounds. With common models, for every good camera that can be sold to the West he has to look at at least five worn down, dead cameras that can't be sold at all. If you think the cameras you buy off eBay are bad, if you unlikely enough happen come to Tashkent until September I can show you the mass of neglected junk out of which these are the best picks. Getting good cameras requires a lot of time. With rare models they have to be tracked down. If I go phone my dealer tomorrow and ask him whether he can get me a Kiev-5 within four weeks, he will probably say yes, but then he will do twenty phonecalls to other people who also want their own little share of the profits, and this all drives prices up.

- Getting the cameras overhauled. Western customers are picky. You want to sell cameras in good shape. For that you need a repairman. Any idiot here will claim that he can repair a camera, but skilled repairmen are surprisingly rare over here, and this tends to drive prices up.

- Getting the cameras out of the country. Most FSU countries still have a regulation in place that everything over 50 years in age needs an export license, and this already begins to cover Zorki-5s and FED-2s. Here in Uzbekistan you aren't allowed to export cameras at all, so you have to bribe the customs man to close both eyes. Also there is some privatisation within the postal system going on, so you might have to establish a good working relationship with the head of your local post branch. All this costs money, too.

- Last not least: getting the necessary skills to sell cameras. For example you need to be more or less conversant in English. This is not common over here in the generation over 35, and learning languages costs money. Corollary: if you come here with working knowledge of Russian, you can save a lot of money on camera purchases, because you get to deal with all those people who don't have the opportunity to deal on eBay.

All in all, FSU camera dealers have quite slim profit margins. If someone sells you a $100 camera, he probably paid something like $20 for it, but I bet he doesn't make a net profit of more than $5.

Philipp

That was fascinating reading! Thanks for posting.

Jon

 

[Bluesman]

Oki - yes, I know - I have friends in Russia/Ukraine too, but didn´t want to go into details . Still - my point was not that the seller gets obscenely rich (I know they don´t) , I just wanted to point out the coarse mechanism. And in the end - the 5-10 USD net profit will allow the former-FSU "average Joe" seller (or middleman) to feed his family for another day or two. But that´s a totally different theme.

Cheers /R

 

[zhang xk]

That was fascinating reading! Thanks for posting.

Jon

I certainly agree. I usually buy Russian cameras from a dealer in Beijing who has some Russian friends. But now he said those friends stopped supplying cameras to him. Some dealers near the north border could still get some cameras, but the price is much higher.

 

[ruben]

Somehow the fall of the dollar should also influence.

 

[brachal]

Hi Richard,


Not quite, you have at least watches as well, and some people would include binoculars (and possibly guns).

I agree about the watches and binoculars. I've has a couple of Vostok watches over the years, and they've been great mechanicals, rugged and reliable. I also have a pair of military (or at least military-style, BPO 7x30) binoculars from our friends at KOMZ that are first rate -- every bit as good as Zeiss binoculars I've used.

 

[raid]

Thanks for the write-up

Thanks for the write-up

Phillip: The information provided by you is alll new to me.
Now we can better value such items when offered at certain price levels.

Raid

 

[raid]

Mikhail,

Nobody hates any nation.Maybe some of the imported products are not well received.

In Iraq, we used to say that the only Soviet Union product that does not heat up is an iron! The Moskovitch cars always heat up and the shortwave radios too. I recall that Iraq would trade two hundred pairs of Bata shoes for a Moskovitch car.

Raid

 

[amateriat]

Not quite, you have at least watches as well, and some people would include binoculars (and possibly guns).

I've been told the latest version of the MiG-29 isn't too bad, either.


- Barrett

 

[raid]

Iraq got Mig 25 with lousy navigation radar systems many years ago. I am sure that the high end versions for local use are far better planes.

 

[Xmas]

The FSU military products have not been all bad

AK-47 are real reliable even if you dont know an oily rag from a turban, the GIs in VN called them bananas (from the mag shape) but they knew they were a problem.
T-34 in WWII needed large calibre anti tank gun at battle ranges, the follow on heavies needed close ranges...

I have as much troubles with my Contax II as with my Kievs..., the H103 I have in as new condition matches or betters the late as new Sonnar, in most attributes.

Noel

 

[ruben]

The FSU military products have not been all bad.....

Noel

Hi Noel,
The Klashnikovs (I am sure I am misspelling), have been always considered by the israleli army as the best light repetition guns, better that the US M-16, the Israeli short distance UZI, and the relative new Israeli version called "Galil" trying to borrow the best of the three, into a single arm fire. Nevertheless, the Soviet version is considered here the winner.

 

[Xmas]

ruben

Your spelling is better then mine...
The Finns cloned the AK-47
The SA cloned the Finn clone
And the IAF cloned the SA
So the Galil did not have a lot of invention, it would have saved tax shiekels to issue captured AK-47?

Noel

 

[ruben]

ruben

.........So the Galil did not have a lot of invention, it would have saved tax shiekels to issue captured AK-47?

Noel

Well, as the say goes, "A Contax is a Contax"....

 

[Bluesman]

Well, looks like I have to re-phrase my sentence above - I do not want to cause international trouble

So...

"Besides - cameras/lenses are about the only FSU-produced things worth buying, and the sellers have realized it."

I of course meant civilian Soviet-era products, available in large numbers at almost no cost to the average guy in the FSU countries. In addition, they should be legal, and reasonably easy to handle and ship. I forgot to mention electron valves (HF and audio tubes) and I may have excluded other good products unknown to me.

There we go. Everybody happy now? Phew......

Cheers /Richard

 

[ruben]

And you are still surprised that all world hates us?

Hi Tovarish,
lately we are having a lot of this kind of provocations and unavoidable protests upon them, and i have raised my voice loudly against offending nations and on behalf of the protesting members after being offended.


It is our duty within RFF, to strongly avoid becoming a passive mirror of the ugly face of our world. On this I call to the attention of everybody. No single nation, religion or skin color should be insulted here, not hardly, nor mildly.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Xmas]

Ruben

I beg to differ the cold was is still on, the US and Ch are now facing up to one another... the inner kingdom is being sneaky...

But this is not a mil or Pol forum, the mods will fix this post good...

Noel

 

[amateriat]

Iraq got Mig 25 with lousy navigation radar systems many years ago. I am sure that the high end versions for local use are far better planes.

Yikes...those would qualify as weapons of self-destruction, at least for those who had to fly 'em...


- Barrett