AusDLK
Famous Photographer
Just used my Sony A7 and the Zeiss 55mm lens to photograph a new LOOK At Me subject. Oh man, so so much easier and faster than using an M camera. The sharpness I made out in the viewfinder was mind boggling. Setting an AF point on the eye of the subject meant NO recomposing. Gawd I love my Leicas but at what price?? I need a 12-step program to break this silly addiction I have to Leica. The A7 is clearly the better choice at least in this case.
wogg
Established
Try shooting something requiring ISO3200 wide open vs M240 with a Summilux 50mm (or Voigt Nok) and matching your focus hits...
Hi Dave,
Please give more details and comparisons. Even for those who disagree with your choice, it makes food for thought.
I remember when you were with me and Tony Rose in Wetzler at LHSA when the M8 was introduced and how upset you were about the M8 shutter noise -- but you came around with the later digital M's.
Best,
Stephen
YYV_146
Well-known
But even with the Summilux, I can almost always focus faster and compose more accurately with the A7. Either learn to aim for peaking indicators in the subject's eye, or get comfortable with keeping a finger on the focus magnification button.
Not that the 55mm f1.8 is not a fantastic lens...But I do prefer a manual aperture ring
Not that the 55mm f1.8 is not a fantastic lens...But I do prefer a manual aperture ring
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The Sony A7 is replacing my Leica M9. I have a broader range of top notch lenses for it (Leica R from 19 to 180mm, a few select Nikkors, and the M-Rokkor 40 and 90 that I usually use on my CL). It produces results I like more, and I like shooting with it more.
Nothing wrong with the M9, I like it a lot. But the Sony A7 does it better for me.
G
Nothing wrong with the M9, I like it a lot. But the Sony A7 does it better for me.
G
uhoh7
Veteran
I like my A7, but the M9 produces much sharper images.
Lens selection, for me, is better also. I have zm18, sem 21, 28 cron, 35 skopar, which are not worth using on the A7, and are off the chart fantastic on the M9.
In fact only two lenses I know are truly great on the A7s, the native 35 and the 55. The processor is designed around them.
50 cron and up are good on the A7, but they are superb on the M9.
I agree the A7 is easier to focus at wide aperture and with long lenses.
The M9 is more trouble, but it's worth it to me.
above 135mm of course I use the A7.
50 cron f/2 barely adjusted from the m9
In fact after 2 months with the M9, I have to say it's exceeded my expectations. Now you see them right and left for 3k USD, which, considering what they can do, is well worth it.
Form factor is nearly identical to the A7, if not smaller, since many lenses are so compact.
However, we all have different priorities, and to those who prefer the A7 for daily use: more power to you!
Lens selection, for me, is better also. I have zm18, sem 21, 28 cron, 35 skopar, which are not worth using on the A7, and are off the chart fantastic on the M9.
In fact only two lenses I know are truly great on the A7s, the native 35 and the 55. The processor is designed around them.
50 cron and up are good on the A7, but they are superb on the M9.
I agree the A7 is easier to focus at wide aperture and with long lenses.
The M9 is more trouble, but it's worth it to me.
above 135mm of course I use the A7.
50 cron f/2 barely adjusted from the m9
In fact after 2 months with the M9, I have to say it's exceeded my expectations. Now you see them right and left for 3k USD, which, considering what they can do, is well worth it.
Form factor is nearly identical to the A7, if not smaller, since many lenses are so compact.
However, we all have different priorities, and to those who prefer the A7 for daily use: more power to you!
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
Stephen --
I'm not giving up on my Leica's. I didn't like the 240 for several reasons but I still own a Monochrom and an M9-P. I also have several film M cameras that intend to use more once the warmer weather arrives.
I did hate the M8 and made a lot of enemies because I said so. If Leica hadn't improved it like they did with the M8.2 (obviously I wasn't the only one with disdain), I would never have owned a digital M. I never owned an M8 and only jumped on the digital M bandwagon with the M8.2.
The only thing that the 240 has on its predecessors, in my opinion, is the improved shutter sound -- it sounds more like a camera should sound to my ear. Admittedly, I have gotten used to the post M8 models even though some "purity" is missing.
What I was really trying to get across with my post was that the Leica "mystique" or whatever you might choose to call it affects me in a strange way that makes me almost feel guilty using any other camera -- even if that other camera is better suited for some particular task (as the A7 with the auto-focus Zeiss 55mm lens is for my LOOK At Me portraits as I found out yesterday).
No doubt personal prestige, ego, some residual thoughts of how much money I have spent on Leicas, are part of the equation.
I often feel like the kind of photography I do is actually defined by the camera I feel so compelled to us. I use a Leica so therefore I am a street photographer. This has become more and more limiting to me as time has gone on.
I'm no shrink but is almost sounds like I am affected by some obsessive-complusive disorder or something. The feeling that I will be happier (more satisfied? more successful? cooler? more impressive?) if I grab the Monochrom rather than the A7 when I go out of the door in the morning is real.
This bothers me and I wish it wasn't so.
I'm not giving up on my Leica's. I didn't like the 240 for several reasons but I still own a Monochrom and an M9-P. I also have several film M cameras that intend to use more once the warmer weather arrives.
I did hate the M8 and made a lot of enemies because I said so. If Leica hadn't improved it like they did with the M8.2 (obviously I wasn't the only one with disdain), I would never have owned a digital M. I never owned an M8 and only jumped on the digital M bandwagon with the M8.2.
The only thing that the 240 has on its predecessors, in my opinion, is the improved shutter sound -- it sounds more like a camera should sound to my ear. Admittedly, I have gotten used to the post M8 models even though some "purity" is missing.
What I was really trying to get across with my post was that the Leica "mystique" or whatever you might choose to call it affects me in a strange way that makes me almost feel guilty using any other camera -- even if that other camera is better suited for some particular task (as the A7 with the auto-focus Zeiss 55mm lens is for my LOOK At Me portraits as I found out yesterday).
No doubt personal prestige, ego, some residual thoughts of how much money I have spent on Leicas, are part of the equation.
I often feel like the kind of photography I do is actually defined by the camera I feel so compelled to us. I use a Leica so therefore I am a street photographer. This has become more and more limiting to me as time has gone on.
I'm no shrink but is almost sounds like I am affected by some obsessive-complusive disorder or something. The feeling that I will be happier (more satisfied? more successful? cooler? more impressive?) if I grab the Monochrom rather than the A7 when I go out of the door in the morning is real.
This bothers me and I wish it wasn't so.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Hmmm... Dave... lemme help here. It's a tool. They're all just a tool. I'm shooting a series on the overhaul of an inline ten cylinder Chicago Pneumatic dual-fuel generating engine in a powerplant in our town. The power plant operator is a woman, perhaps the only one in the country, I don't know for sure, but it makes for interesting shooting. Anyway, a couple of the (hundred pound) pistons came back with defects in them and I went over to document them. I have shot the M9-P pretty much the whole time, but I dug out my Panny GX-1 for the closeups because it was faster and easier than playing "Visoflex." Not that I mind using the Visoflex, but I just didn't want to take the time, and the Panny with the kit lens did a stellar job in a quarter of the time it would have taken with the M9-P. Frankly, if I did more shooting where live-view was useful, I'd probably spring for an A7 myself... but the $200 Panny does just fine as often as I use it.
Sometimes the Leicas are the best tool for the job, sometimes something else works easier and faster. No big deal... it's about the image after all. And in my case, getting the job done too.
Relax... enjoy the A7r, and use the Leicas however you want to. BTW, they're not just for street work. I don't know how that "factoid" ever got started. They're an excellent general-use workhorse.
PM me if you want a link to the power plant images I've done so far.
Roger
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
Roger --
You're absolutely correct. I agree with the logic of your words completely.
Cameras are tools. That's all.
But this nagging obsession (or is it a complusion?) is very real.
But perhaps this is just a symptom of some far great emotional disorder, eh?
You're absolutely correct. I agree with the logic of your words completely.
Cameras are tools. That's all.
But this nagging obsession (or is it a complusion?) is very real.
But perhaps this is just a symptom of some far great emotional disorder, eh?
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Roger --
You're absolutely correct. I agree with the logic of your words completely.
Cameras are tools. That's all.
But this nagging obsession (or is it a complusion?) is very real.
But perhaps this is just a symptom of some far great emotional disorder, eh?
Naaah... sometimes they just feel right. And there is something really positive about not having to think about how to use your gear. That's what got me back with Leica to begin with. I don't have to think about using it... it is what it is. I have to think about using the GX-1. There's nothing intuitive about it. Once you've established a relationship with an M body... it's all intuitive and it doesn't make a difference whether it's film or digital.
gdi
Veteran
I struggle with the same feelings - love the M system, but the digital Ms really lag behind. I used an M9 for years and it was great compared to the old M8. But I finally admitted to myself that there were other options that met or exceeded its image quality. So now, I mostly use the system for film and an M3 has THE LEICA FEEL rather than the "overstuffed ham sandwich" feel of the M9/8 (though I kept an M8 just in case, if I could only remember where I put it!)
Regarding the Sonys, I found that the A7r/A7 is a great platform for R lenses - and the odd M lens. And of course the Zeiss 55 is outstanding when you need AF. You get the benefit of the fabulous Leica SLR lenses (or Zeiss, nikon, etc) without the compromises the Leica bodies present. Nothing I have used (admittedly, no M240 or D800e) can provide the image quality of the A7r, and the fact that usability is so much better makes it hard to beat.
Regarding the Sonys, I found that the A7r/A7 is a great platform for R lenses - and the odd M lens. And of course the Zeiss 55 is outstanding when you need AF. You get the benefit of the fabulous Leica SLR lenses (or Zeiss, nikon, etc) without the compromises the Leica bodies present. Nothing I have used (admittedly, no M240 or D800e) can provide the image quality of the A7r, and the fact that usability is so much better makes it hard to beat.
Pioneer
Veteran
This is exactly where I am at. I ordered the A7, kept it for two weeks, and sent it back. I liked, it is a very nice camera, and the images are truly something to see. But it went back for two reasons; a) it didn't feel right; and b) my 16x20 prints looked no different to me or my friends. I kept my M9 because it feels right and doesn't get in my way.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I use Leicas because I like them.
If you like using the M9 more than the A7, or vice versa, just go ahead and do what you like. It's what I do. The photos you make are really all that is important.
G
If you like using the M9 more than the A7, or vice versa, just go ahead and do what you like. It's what I do. The photos you make are really all that is important.
G
raid
Dad Photographer
It is great that we have several options to choose from. If I had another $2500 available to spend on a camera, I would get one of the two new SONY cameras to check it out.
zleica
Established
After about 2 months of using Sony A7r with most Leica R lenses and EF 55/1.8, I actually went back to Leica M9/M240. I found RF is easier for me. I also prefer the IQ from Leica Ms.
gdi
Veteran
If you bought last week it was $1238 for a new A7 from B&H and around $1800 for the A7r. So they can be very affordable.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'm going to fit the Novoflex NEX/LEM adapter to the A7 today and carry it and the M9 with ONLY the M-Rokkor 40/2 lens on my walk. I'll swap the lens back and forth and shoot the same scenes.
It will be interesting to see what does what ...
G
It will be interesting to see what does what ...
G
cz23
-
I'm going to fit the Novoflex NEX/LEM adapter to the A7 today and carry it and the M9 with ONLY the M-Rokkor 40/2 lens on my walk. I'll swap the lens back and forth and shoot the same scenes.
It will be interesting to see what does what ...
G
Look forward to seeing the results.
John
gdi
Veteran
I'm going to fit the Novoflex NEX/LEM adapter to the A7 today and carry it and the M9 with ONLY the M-Rokkor 40/2 lens on my walk. I'll swap the lens back and forth and shoot the same scenes.
It will be interesting to see what does what ...
G
I wouldn't be surprised if the M9 has better edges with the M lens.
Though I have never owned the Rokkor, none of my M lenses shorter than my 90, and maybe the Noctilux, look as good on the Sony as they did on the old M9 - except in the center where the superior sensor of the Sony (A7r) is evident, at least on modern sharp lenses.
thompsonks
Well-known
Not really a choice, as far as I'm concerned - IMO they're compatible. Currently I walk around with M9 and usually 40 Summicron, plus A7 body in jacket pocket. Outdoors always the Leica, because EVF looks unreal in bright sunlight and I prefer RF focusing; but indoors, lens switches over to A7 for higher ISO.
Agree, though, that M9 is outdated and M240 unattractive in its 'features' and price; so M9 is probably the last of my 42 years of Leicas.
I'm sorry I got caught up in the effort to use M lenses on my A7 - most of those that work well are longer than I'm interested in using. Wish I'd realized at the start that A7/r is the new body for R lenses.
Agree, though, that M9 is outdated and M240 unattractive in its 'features' and price; so M9 is probably the last of my 42 years of Leicas.
I'm sorry I got caught up in the effort to use M lenses on my A7 - most of those that work well are longer than I'm interested in using. Wish I'd realized at the start that A7/r is the new body for R lenses.