LBeacon1
Newbie
I'm a portrait photographer working digitally, but I'd like to branch out and get into B&W film street photography.
I don't have a large budget but it looks like a Bessa R2A would work for me, with it's built in lightmeter and more of a solid body than the R. I'm planning to pair that with a Voigtlander Color Skopar 50mm 2.5.
First question: Where on earth can you buy an R2A in the UK?? Everything on eBay seems to be from Japan, and I don't want to get stung on import taxes, and I've looked in the classifieds on this website with no joy.
Is the Color Skopar 50mm a good starting street photography lens? On Ken Rockwell's site he doesn't give it (or any other Voigtlander lenses, it seems) a good review! I've seen some lovely shots using it on this forum though, but it's hard to tell when you're looking at compressed jpegs.
Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks
I don't have a large budget but it looks like a Bessa R2A would work for me, with it's built in lightmeter and more of a solid body than the R. I'm planning to pair that with a Voigtlander Color Skopar 50mm 2.5.
First question: Where on earth can you buy an R2A in the UK?? Everything on eBay seems to be from Japan, and I don't want to get stung on import taxes, and I've looked in the classifieds on this website with no joy.
Is the Color Skopar 50mm a good starting street photography lens? On Ken Rockwell's site he doesn't give it (or any other Voigtlander lenses, it seems) a good review! I've seen some lovely shots using it on this forum though, but it's hard to tell when you're looking at compressed jpegs.
Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks
sojournerphoto
Veteran
I had a color-skopar 35 that I regret selling. Nice little lens.
Usual suspects for an R2a - ffordes (currently nothing) eBay, real camera company in Manchester and luck.
I've got an R3m 250 anniversary with its 50 Heliar classic, but that may not be what you're after.
Mike
Usual suspects for an R2a - ffordes (currently nothing) eBay, real camera company in Manchester and luck.
I've got an R3m 250 anniversary with its 50 Heliar classic, but that may not be what you're after.
Mike
LBeacon1
Newbie
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply.
I haven't heard of the Real Camera Company, I'll give them a shout.
Unfortunately I'm after a Bessa with a light meter, and I don't think the R3M has one. Thanks anyway!
Thanks for your reply.
I haven't heard of the Real Camera Company, I'll give them a shout.
Unfortunately I'm after a Bessa with a light meter, and I don't think the R3M has one. Thanks anyway!
ray*j*gun
Veteran
The R3m has a light meter. You just have a mechanical shutter withe the M's vs electronic with the A's. Also the A's let you shoot aperture priority but the M's don't.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
Also the CV Color Skopar 50mm 2.5 is a great lens!!! KR is not the best source for all reviews.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Hi, welcome!
For sure you'll enjoy B&W street photography...
The R2A is a great camera, no doubt...
Consider there are other great options too: you might find soon you didn´t really need AutoExposure, because for fast shooting what you need is "knowing" (it's easy) the amount of light you're walking in, and AE gets easily fooled with overcast sky, sun and other light sources and reflections... Besides, a camera with all mechanical speeds and meter (like the R2M) is a better choice for street IMO...
Both 50 & 35 Skopars are indeed GREAT lenses. The advantage of the 35 Skopar is you get superior depth of field when the lens is around f/8 so you don't need to focus slowly in front of a vanishing scene... With a 50mm the game is different... Both focal lengths are interesting, and surely you'll end up owning several 35´s and several 50's soon: you won't be an exception here...
So, R2M and 35 Skopar are my recommendation.
I use 2 Bessas T, an R4M and an R3A: they all do different things. And never had any problem with them or with the Voigtlander lenses I use every day.
This is a beautiful journey! Enjoy!!!
Cheers,
Juan
For sure you'll enjoy B&W street photography...
The R2A is a great camera, no doubt...
Consider there are other great options too: you might find soon you didn´t really need AutoExposure, because for fast shooting what you need is "knowing" (it's easy) the amount of light you're walking in, and AE gets easily fooled with overcast sky, sun and other light sources and reflections... Besides, a camera with all mechanical speeds and meter (like the R2M) is a better choice for street IMO...
Both 50 & 35 Skopars are indeed GREAT lenses. The advantage of the 35 Skopar is you get superior depth of field when the lens is around f/8 so you don't need to focus slowly in front of a vanishing scene... With a 50mm the game is different... Both focal lengths are interesting, and surely you'll end up owning several 35´s and several 50's soon: you won't be an exception here...
So, R2M and 35 Skopar are my recommendation.
I use 2 Bessas T, an R4M and an R3A: they all do different things. And never had any problem with them or with the Voigtlander lenses I use every day.
This is a beautiful journey! Enjoy!!!
Cheers,
Juan
JP Owens
Well-known
I had several Bessas, and the R2A was my favorite. If I still shot film, I'd still be shooting the R2A. Solid camera with all the right features.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Smart move on A model. It is good aid for street photography and Bessa's lightmeter is accurate.
I would skip 50mm Color Skopar for two reasons. It is overpriced and it is too narrow.
35 Color Skopar is completely opposite. Great for the street and one of the best priced 35 RF lenses with capabilities.
K. Rockwell doesn't know anything about street photography, he is gearhead with very little knowledge of real photography if any knowledge at all.
I would skip 50mm Color Skopar for two reasons. It is overpriced and it is too narrow.
35 Color Skopar is completely opposite. Great for the street and one of the best priced 35 RF lenses with capabilities.
K. Rockwell doesn't know anything about street photography, he is gearhead with very little knowledge of real photography if any knowledge at all.
LBeacon1
Newbie
Thank you very much for all your replies - all of them hugely useful!
When I said the R3M doesn't have a light meter, I meant to say it doesn't have aperture priority. I'm used to having a relatively cosy amount of time to set my camera setting when taking portraits, and I don't know how quickly I'll be able to do it when I'm out on the street, hence why I think a camera with aperture priority would be best for me.
I'm heading out to LA next month, so I might have a chance to find the elusive R2A out there. Can anyone recommend any camera shops in Los Angeles that are working looking in?
Many thanks!
When I said the R3M doesn't have a light meter, I meant to say it doesn't have aperture priority. I'm used to having a relatively cosy amount of time to set my camera setting when taking portraits, and I don't know how quickly I'll be able to do it when I'm out on the street, hence why I think a camera with aperture priority would be best for me.
I'm heading out to LA next month, so I might have a chance to find the elusive R2A out there. Can anyone recommend any camera shops in Los Angeles that are working looking in?
Many thanks!
LBeacon1
Newbie
Thanks for you reply - can you elaborate on this please? Why is having a camera with everything mechanical better for street? Wouldnt that mean that it takes longer to set setting correctly?
Thanks!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
RFF bartender is one of the key persons in modern Bessa, Viogtlander history.
And based in LA.
https://www.cameraquest.com/
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Hi, Ko.Fe., respecting your opinion as any other RFF member’s opinion, and I share yours generally, I just want to clarify mine to LBeacon1 as he’s new to RF’s and Street Photography:
AutoExposure was a commercial concept, but it simply doesn’t exist: what exists is an approximation to that concept, and it only works a small part of the times… A meter can’t know the settings you need: all it can tell you is the settings needed to make any scene a middle gray one in average on your negative and print. The scene was a white wall, you get a gray wall, the scene was a black car, you get a gray car… Meters were and are (even today) designed as a first step for the photographer to take the real decision, so letting a blind meter decide for you always, skipping the human part, the important part, is nothing more than a hit and miss attitude. Not a smart move at all… Only middle gray scenes will be well recorded on film. Why was it so popular? Because color film was a different technology: a more permissive one, one that with several stops of different exposure produced, chemically, an identical negative, and that’s far from B&W, which is indeed closer to slide film’s sensitivity to exposure, as can be seen on a contact print sheet... For serious B&W Street a correct negative is required for best tone printing.
Then, we all find sometimes AE can be a knife in our hearts… You’re there, in front of a great scene, and it lasts for a couple of seconds, so you have two options: you already had your camera manually set for the light you know, and you shoot instantly and get a wonderful negative, or you had your camera in Auto and you get a horribly underexposed negative, easily… That hurts when the scene was a special one we chase for months, or years…
Why use Auto for street black and white? It’s just not the best situation or kind of photography for that system because light is different here and there even on the same street or the same park or market… I’m talking about SEVERAL stops of difference in the same place…
Apart, a whole different subject: a mechanical shutter is more reliable, and another one: batteries are out of the equation, as electronic failures…
But, there’s another really important difference, possibly the most relevant one, as LBeacon1 is interested in Street: when we use Auto we don’t see or learn about light… I came to RFF possibly in 2008 or 2009, and had never used any RF and had never done Street even if I had done B&W for 20 years and had already cursed a six-year Phototography career… I was good for slow photography and for studio photography, but seriously, AE goes against understanding light and being good for street photography.
I remember I was about to buy an R4A back then, and Tom A. kindly told me here an R4M made more sense… His words changed my life, because those words made me start a totally new (to me) way of shooting… After these years I am a much better photographer because I took control, and I had spent 20 years being a blind photographer. I learned a lot more in two years than I had learned in twenty if we talk about the amount of light and its qualities, because when you don’t NEED to know about your settings every instant, you can’t remember or compare or learn.
Just what I lived…
Cheers,
Juan
AutoExposure was a commercial concept, but it simply doesn’t exist: what exists is an approximation to that concept, and it only works a small part of the times… A meter can’t know the settings you need: all it can tell you is the settings needed to make any scene a middle gray one in average on your negative and print. The scene was a white wall, you get a gray wall, the scene was a black car, you get a gray car… Meters were and are (even today) designed as a first step for the photographer to take the real decision, so letting a blind meter decide for you always, skipping the human part, the important part, is nothing more than a hit and miss attitude. Not a smart move at all… Only middle gray scenes will be well recorded on film. Why was it so popular? Because color film was a different technology: a more permissive one, one that with several stops of different exposure produced, chemically, an identical negative, and that’s far from B&W, which is indeed closer to slide film’s sensitivity to exposure, as can be seen on a contact print sheet... For serious B&W Street a correct negative is required for best tone printing.
Then, we all find sometimes AE can be a knife in our hearts… You’re there, in front of a great scene, and it lasts for a couple of seconds, so you have two options: you already had your camera manually set for the light you know, and you shoot instantly and get a wonderful negative, or you had your camera in Auto and you get a horribly underexposed negative, easily… That hurts when the scene was a special one we chase for months, or years…
Why use Auto for street black and white? It’s just not the best situation or kind of photography for that system because light is different here and there even on the same street or the same park or market… I’m talking about SEVERAL stops of difference in the same place…
Apart, a whole different subject: a mechanical shutter is more reliable, and another one: batteries are out of the equation, as electronic failures…
But, there’s another really important difference, possibly the most relevant one, as LBeacon1 is interested in Street: when we use Auto we don’t see or learn about light… I came to RFF possibly in 2008 or 2009, and had never used any RF and had never done Street even if I had done B&W for 20 years and had already cursed a six-year Phototography career… I was good for slow photography and for studio photography, but seriously, AE goes against understanding light and being good for street photography.
I remember I was about to buy an R4A back then, and Tom A. kindly told me here an R4M made more sense… His words changed my life, because those words made me start a totally new (to me) way of shooting… After these years I am a much better photographer because I took control, and I had spent 20 years being a blind photographer. I learned a lot more in two years than I had learned in twenty if we talk about the amount of light and its qualities, because when you don’t NEED to know about your settings every instant, you can’t remember or compare or learn.
Just what I lived…
Cheers,
Juan
markrich
Enthusiatic amatuer
I bought mine from London Camera Exchange in Bristol but they do occasionally show up on the Web page, otherwise I guess the other option is the classified section of this site. Don't forget we're still part of the EU single market and you get the same warranty across all states with 2 years so don't forget to check the rest of the Union.
My 35mm f/1.4 voitlander lens was bought from Germany here on this site.
My 35mm f/1.4 voitlander lens was bought from Germany here on this site.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Take it easy and do not generalize in terms of all AE cameras.
My M-E AE is not something to trust on the street, but it doesn't mean where are no cameras with AE accurate for street photography. Same as OP my first street camera was with AE, but only with AE. Olympus XA. And it NEVER let me down in terms of exposure for hundreds of frames taken over couple of years under ANY light. Take it or not, it did.
And as for as I know from my experience in street photography with Bessas L, T and R it is accurate from first take in 99%.
John Free is know figure among street photographers. All he uses for decades is F series Nikon camera in AE mode. This allows him to use bw filters on the lens and concentrate on focusing (because SLR focusing of 50mm lens is something to be concentrated on, while it is no brainier with RF and 35mm lens
). Also, believe it or not: R2A, M-E and J. Free's F are usable without AE, if dare to RTFullM.
John Lawrence
Well-known
Aperture UK appear to have one:
http://www.apertureuk.com/Leica.html
(scroll down to the Voigtlander section)
Cheers,
John
markrich
Enthusiatic amatuer
LBeacon1
Newbie
Thanks for all your comments!
How annoying that I just missed the R2A that was in Aperture! I go in there fairly regularly so it must have only just gone on sale!
The search continues...
How annoying that I just missed the R2A that was in Aperture! I go in there fairly regularly so it must have only just gone on sale!
The search continues...
Pioneer
Veteran
The Zeiss Ikon (ZI) is a step up in price, but still not at Leica levels, yet provides excellent metering, aperture priority auto exposure and a highly accurate electronic shutter. And the viewfinder is like no other in the rangefinder world. Well worth the extra price if you can afford it.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
My only problem with AE cameras (Besa and Zeiss) is when the batteries goes - so does the camera! Always keep some spares in the pocket. Otherwise the R2A is a very good choice - good finder, good meter.
The Zeiss ZM is in a different ballpark. Most likely the best finder of any rangefinder ever. The bottom rewind is a bit of a bother, but the finder makes up for it! More money though.
Lens choice depends on your "point of view" - pun intended. The Color Skopar 50mm f2.5 is very good - but as stated, a bit "narrow". The Color Skopar 35f2.5 will hold its own against most 35's and is very small and compact. The indecisive alternative is one of the 40mm f1.4 Noktons (either Single coat or multicoated). You can use it as a slightly "long 35" or short 50 - and it has the speed for low light work.
The Zeiss ZM is in a different ballpark. Most likely the best finder of any rangefinder ever. The bottom rewind is a bit of a bother, but the finder makes up for it! More money though.
Lens choice depends on your "point of view" - pun intended. The Color Skopar 50mm f2.5 is very good - but as stated, a bit "narrow". The Color Skopar 35f2.5 will hold its own against most 35's and is very small and compact. The indecisive alternative is one of the 40mm f1.4 Noktons (either Single coat or multicoated). You can use it as a slightly "long 35" or short 50 - and it has the speed for low light work.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Hi, Ko.Fe.,
First, the problem I stated was not different AE designs on different cameras, but different scenes from an optimal average one: and some of them including different levels of backlighting fooling meters... AE cameras above that don't exist.
Second, as I said in my previous post, sometimes AE can work, but some others, it just doesn't. And important scenes can be missed. Both things happen.
Third, I'm taking it easy: just love truth.
Fourth, yes, this is a general behaviour with AE, no matter the camera. I remain among those who prefer to think and decide.
If any forum member wants an R2A, it's a great camera as I wrote previously, but just not the best tool for street... Not for learning about light either... No problem, he's got a lot of time to live it, and chances are he´ll miss some important scenes because of AE sometimes...
This was not personal, not for a second, and it was not about your opinion or mine either: it was about AutoExposure exclusively.
Cheers,
Juan