Blooze
Established
I'm going to ride on the heels of Jehovazilla's thread from a couple of weeks ago if ya'll don't mind 
I currently have a Retina IIc that I love the lens on and the solid feel of it's build which is going to go off to Mr. Crawford shortly for a CLA. I also have a Signet 80 and the three lenses it came with. So, although I'm not completely unfamiliar with rangefinders, I do really like them, almost more than my SLR's. On that note I had an epiphany last week.
My best friend and I were spending a couple of days just cruising the country roads to see what we could see last week when one of the days turned quite rainy. So we headed to the city and stopped at a local camera store. They had tons of old film cameras and developing gear, fwiw, and since I'm trying to get my firend to dabble in film again we proceeded to bring down all the decent cameras and play with color commentary from the very knowledgeable person behind the counter. They had one RF, a Bessa R with the 50mm Voightlander lens on it, forget which model. I've never seen a Leica or anything "modern" in a RF and I have to tell you once I looked through the viewfinder and fiddled with the lens I was hooked. The camera felt completely natural, although you could tell the build quality was not top notch. Not terrible, mind you, but not really solid. Unfortunately I didn't have the extra Benjamins they were asking, but I got a taste of what a real viewfinder should look like.
So on that accord I've decided to try and set back some money over the next year to acquire a newer RF for my birthday (which is coming up in a few days this year). I've noticed with my SLR's, both digital and film, I tend to shoot in the 20-30mm on my crop sensor D200 and 28-35mm on my Pentax SLRs. Either that or it's way close up. I don't do a lot of shooting with a tele lens. It's either close up or big and wide.
So if I give myself a budget of $750 or so, what would be some good options to look for in a body/lens combo? Bodies I can see the differences more easily, but all the lenses and different names for them is a complete mystery to me.
As a side note, I have no camera stores within about 250 miles of me, so it's a roll of the dice really.
I currently have a Retina IIc that I love the lens on and the solid feel of it's build which is going to go off to Mr. Crawford shortly for a CLA. I also have a Signet 80 and the three lenses it came with. So, although I'm not completely unfamiliar with rangefinders, I do really like them, almost more than my SLR's. On that note I had an epiphany last week.
My best friend and I were spending a couple of days just cruising the country roads to see what we could see last week when one of the days turned quite rainy. So we headed to the city and stopped at a local camera store. They had tons of old film cameras and developing gear, fwiw, and since I'm trying to get my firend to dabble in film again we proceeded to bring down all the decent cameras and play with color commentary from the very knowledgeable person behind the counter. They had one RF, a Bessa R with the 50mm Voightlander lens on it, forget which model. I've never seen a Leica or anything "modern" in a RF and I have to tell you once I looked through the viewfinder and fiddled with the lens I was hooked. The camera felt completely natural, although you could tell the build quality was not top notch. Not terrible, mind you, but not really solid. Unfortunately I didn't have the extra Benjamins they were asking, but I got a taste of what a real viewfinder should look like.
So on that accord I've decided to try and set back some money over the next year to acquire a newer RF for my birthday (which is coming up in a few days this year). I've noticed with my SLR's, both digital and film, I tend to shoot in the 20-30mm on my crop sensor D200 and 28-35mm on my Pentax SLRs. Either that or it's way close up. I don't do a lot of shooting with a tele lens. It's either close up or big and wide.
So if I give myself a budget of $750 or so, what would be some good options to look for in a body/lens combo? Bodies I can see the differences more easily, but all the lenses and different names for them is a complete mystery to me.
As a side note, I have no camera stores within about 250 miles of me, so it's a roll of the dice really.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Bessa R, Color Skopar 35 2.5 and Jupiter 8 (white).
This is what I have if I like something modern and effective (including) cost in my hands.
No problem to buy it on e-bay or here.
This is what I have if I like something modern and effective (including) cost in my hands.
No problem to buy it on e-bay or here.
furbs
Well-known
You can get a Canon 7 or P and a Canon 35mm f/1.8 for maybe $500. Bessa R is a good camera, too. Do remember that close-up photography doesn't work too well with rangefinder lenses, most of which have about 3 foot minimum focusing distance.
Blooze
Established
Thanks. Yeah, I won't be using it for many close-ups due to that issue. I'll take a look at the Canons. I wasn't sure about the build quality of the Bessas. They were trying to sell the kit for $275, but I had no idea if that was a good price or not.
furcafe
Veteran
The Canon set up is a good recommendation. Not sure if you have a handheld meter, but just get a compact one like the Gossen Digisix (my favorite) or the Sekonic equivalent & you can use that for any other meterless bodies you end up with (also for incident readings w/metered bodies).
Minolta CLE an 40mm Summicron
CV Bessa R2a w/ 35mm Color Skopar
CV Bessa R2a w/ 35mm Color Skopar
Johann Espiritu
Lawyer / Ninja
You can also try out fixed-lens rangefinders, such as the Canonets, Yashicas, or Olympus.
Some you might want to check out are the Canon G-III 17, Yashica ELectro 35, or the Olympus RC.
Good luck!
Some you might want to check out are the Canon G-III 17, Yashica ELectro 35, or the Olympus RC.
Good luck!
furbs
Well-known
A fair price, depending upon condition, but it seems like a 35 would be a better first rangefinder lens for you. I had the 35 Color Skopar, great build quality and a fun shooter. Probably the best bargain in M-mount lenses.
Blooze
Established
I've been using a Luna Pro SBC with all my meterless bodies with good results so far. I take incident readings probably 99% of the time. Reflective it actually matches my D200 matrix metering in most situations. Would like to add a spot meter one of these days.
Scrambler
Well-known
If you want the viewfinder, and have a budget of $750 with a lens, there are only a few options. Of those, the Bessa R is probably the best, IMHO.
The potential cameras with projected framelines and "modern" handling are all listed at http://www.cameraquest.com/leica.htm.
While the Bessa R is lightweight, its body shell is tough enough and the working bits are essentially the same as the current model. Screw mount isn't a huge penalty when you consider the cost of moving up to an M mount with decent range/viewfinder.
Canon 7 is probably the only alternative worth seriously considering, and you won't get a reliable meter, and it's not TTL metering so might as well get a separate meter anyway.
Either of these bodies should be available for $250 or less, leaving $500 for a lens. This should get you a good 35mm Voigtlander or Canon lens, probably around f2-2.5 though you might get a Voigtlander 35 f1.4 if you're lucky.
Options like the CLE and Hexar RF are more expensive with more electronics. I have and like both but I would put more money into the lens. You might get an M Leica body but then you would be putting a cheap 35mm like a jupiter 12 on it.
PS I think $275 with lens is a great price.
The potential cameras with projected framelines and "modern" handling are all listed at http://www.cameraquest.com/leica.htm.
While the Bessa R is lightweight, its body shell is tough enough and the working bits are essentially the same as the current model. Screw mount isn't a huge penalty when you consider the cost of moving up to an M mount with decent range/viewfinder.
Canon 7 is probably the only alternative worth seriously considering, and you won't get a reliable meter, and it's not TTL metering so might as well get a separate meter anyway.
Either of these bodies should be available for $250 or less, leaving $500 for a lens. This should get you a good 35mm Voigtlander or Canon lens, probably around f2-2.5 though you might get a Voigtlander 35 f1.4 if you're lucky.
Options like the CLE and Hexar RF are more expensive with more electronics. I have and like both but I would put more money into the lens. You might get an M Leica body but then you would be putting a cheap 35mm like a jupiter 12 on it.
PS I think $275 with lens is a great price.
tempest68
Established
A Voigtlander R2A or R3A used for body if you want Aperture Priority. If you don't mind full manual, then R2M or R3M. The 2's have 35mm frame lines to start with and 3's have 40mm. I have a R3M, but wish I'd gotten an R2M with the 35mm f2.5.
Blooze
Established
I've seen R2M's go for around $425-450 for the body, sometimes with a less expensive lens as well. Aperture priority is not as issue as all of my film cameras are manual except my ME Super which I use on manual anyway. It looks like the meter in the R2/R3 are much better as far as showing a range than the regular R bodies?
Robin P
Well-known
I had exactly the same experience looking through the viewfinder of a Bessa R at a camera fair some years ago - had to ask the seller to hide it while I ran off to an ATM!
The system I built up is long gone now but it was worth doing - go for it before film gets even more scarce.....
oftheherd
Veteran
Can't go wrong with a Luna Pro SBC. That silicon blue cell (SBC) is great. I have it and the 1°, 5°, and 10° spot meter. It is good, but rather expensive. You might want to consider the 7°/15° accessory viewer, of just spend the money of another combination incident/reflected/flash/spot meter such as some of the Sekonics.
But if you want a system meter, the SBC is hard to beat, just expensive to get all the accessories that other meters have since built in, and often in small packages. I don't know if any have gone for the SBC cell though either. I don't have all the accessoreis, just the two narrow angles, the flash, microscope, and enlarging attachment. All do what they are supposed to do.
All that said about other meters, I would never give up my SBC. I don't think it can be beat in really low light, and no memory.
I will now return you to your thread about rangefinder cameras.
Major Tom
Established
Bessas have a lot of the "Gee I really wish..." features you might think of when using older rangefinders.
Good lenses are going to help you more than bodies to get good images from film. They are also much more likely to hold value. Bodies wear out or break even under good care. So the cheap body+'spensive lens strategy makes sense.
The Bessa R, like all the Bessas, has a nice viewfinder, but so does the Canon P or the Canon 7. The P incidentally has a 1:1 viewfinder, so you can have both eyes open and still get a usable split image. The R does have the advantage of a meter.
I love my R3A.
Good lenses are going to help you more than bodies to get good images from film. They are also much more likely to hold value. Bodies wear out or break even under good care. So the cheap body+'spensive lens strategy makes sense.
The Bessa R, like all the Bessas, has a nice viewfinder, but so does the Canon P or the Canon 7. The P incidentally has a 1:1 viewfinder, so you can have both eyes open and still get a usable split image. The R does have the advantage of a meter.
I love my R3A.
furcafe
Veteran
The Luna Pros are great meters, but they're almost the same size as a Canon P body by itself!
mfogiel
Veteran
For a wide angle guy, I recommend the following:
Bessa R4A, a 25 or 28mm Skopar ( you will need the adapter for this one), grip if you can find one, and a wrist strap.
This is a camera I use for off the hip and casual shooting when I am on a stroll in town. It is barely noticeable, small and light, yet it will expose correctly most of the time, and will let you compose and focus well with lenses in the 21-35mm range, with the 28mm preferred.
If you bite, next one should be a Leica M7.
Bessa R4A sample photos:
RAGAZZI by mfogiel, on Flickr
PASSANTI # 2 by mfogiel, on Flickr
POINTING by mfogiel, on Flickr
Bessa R4A, a 25 or 28mm Skopar ( you will need the adapter for this one), grip if you can find one, and a wrist strap.
This is a camera I use for off the hip and casual shooting when I am on a stroll in town. It is barely noticeable, small and light, yet it will expose correctly most of the time, and will let you compose and focus well with lenses in the 21-35mm range, with the 28mm preferred.
If you bite, next one should be a Leica M7.
Bessa R4A sample photos:
RAGAZZI by mfogiel, on Flickr
PASSANTI # 2 by mfogiel, on Flickr
POINTING by mfogiel, on Flickr
Blooze
Established
Very nice! The 28mm is my favorite with my Pentax SLR's.
Major Tom
Established
I really love this one.
I pine for the EOS-M w/22mm more and more to scratch my wide angle itch.
Scrambler
Well-known
Check the meter patterns. All Bessas are ... quirky. The R is a centre-weighted vertical stripe/oblong while the later models are corner-weighted (!). I find the Bessa R pattern fine - and if I want to eliminate the sky in the metering pattern I meter in portrait format, giving a standard centre-weighted horizontal oblong.