bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Thanks to Fotohuis for the inspiration of trying out these different lenses. I did this comparison just for fun. I make no claims to be an expert in optics, or any claim about being a good photographer.
Parameters:
1. A vertically-mounted piece of plywood with various objects (a la Sean Reid) was placed about 2 meters from the camera.
2. Camera used was Leica M 240, set to DNG, manual WB, 400 ISO.
3. Focus was set with Live View on the grey card.
4. Four sample photos were taken with each lens: F2.8 F4 F5.6 an F8, except for the Industar-50 which started at F3.5 (maximum aperture).
DNG conversion to JPEG was done in Adobe Elements, maximum quality. No editing except crops.
First image: overall setting, taken with Summicron:
Parameters:
1. A vertically-mounted piece of plywood with various objects (a la Sean Reid) was placed about 2 meters from the camera.
2. Camera used was Leica M 240, set to DNG, manual WB, 400 ISO.
3. Focus was set with Live View on the grey card.
4. Four sample photos were taken with each lens: F2.8 F4 F5.6 an F8, except for the Industar-50 which started at F3.5 (maximum aperture).
DNG conversion to JPEG was done in Adobe Elements, maximum quality. No editing except crops.
First image: overall setting, taken with Summicron:
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
CENTER CROPS, 100%. Again, no editing.
1. Leica Summicron 50/2 v5 at F2.8:
2. Jupiter-8 50mm F2 at F2.8:
3. Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 at F2.8:
4. Industar 61 L/D 55mm F2.8 at F2.8:
5. Industar-50 5cm F3.5 at F3.5:
6. Helios-103 53mm F1.8 at F2.8:
1. Leica Summicron 50/2 v5 at F2.8:
2. Jupiter-8 50mm F2 at F2.8:
3. Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 at F2.8:
4. Industar 61 L/D 55mm F2.8 at F2.8:
5. Industar-50 5cm F3.5 at F3.5:
6. Helios-103 53mm F1.8 at F2.8:
Robert Lai
Well-known
Summicron wins, but others such as the J3 don't seem that far behind. What do the corners show?
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
PART II: The Invisible Hand of Capitalism battles the inevitable progress of Scientific Socialism. Which lens resolves best at the far edges?
Center crops are one thing, but what about wide-apertures at the edge of the frame? Let's see what happened.
1. Leica Summicron 50/2 v5 at F2.8:
2. Jupiter-8 50mm F2 at F2.8:
3. Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 at F2.8:
4. Industar-61 L/D 55mm F2.8 at F2.8:
5. Industar-50 5cm F3.5 at F3.5:
6. Helios-103 53mm F1.8 at F2.8:
Center crops are one thing, but what about wide-apertures at the edge of the frame? Let's see what happened.
1. Leica Summicron 50/2 v5 at F2.8:
2. Jupiter-8 50mm F2 at F2.8:
3. Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 at F2.8:
4. Industar-61 L/D 55mm F2.8 at F2.8:
5. Industar-50 5cm F3.5 at F3.5:
6. Helios-103 53mm F1.8 at F2.8:
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Surprise contender to the throne and overall 'dark horse': the Helios-103! This tiny, unassuming lens never fails to surprise me. FWIW I used it on my M 240 with the "Amadeo" adapter -- the other lenses were all mounted with a standard LTM-to-M ring adapter. But I don't think that really had any impact on the test parameters.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
No surprise here.... thats why I have 3 of them... one each for Nikon S mount, Contax S mount and LTM (by Brian Sweeney).
Sid836
Well-known
Ahh! Close but not there! The second image of J-8 is focused at the box of Svema while the Summicron is focused at the background. Used wide open, that difference in focus is critical. Nice try to stem the Summicron as a winner but it just can't. 
The mighty J-8 looks pretty sharp on the box!
The mighty J-8 looks pretty sharp on the box!
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Ahh! Close but not there! The second image of J-8 is focused at the box of Svema while the Summicron is focused at the background. Used wide open, that difference in focus is critical. Nice try to stem the Summicron as a winner but it just can't.
Yes, I think there was some operator error with the focal plane. Even with LiveView it wasn't always easy to ensure that I was focusing on the same spot with every lens change.
Yes, the J8, I-61, and I-50 are all focused slightly closer than the WhiBal, observe the inscription on the folding camera lens and that camera's body covering... Also some differences in matching the grey tone of the WhiBal. Interesting topic!
And that Helios is looking very good...
And that Helios is looking very good...
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
One more set: upper-left corner sample photos. I didn't really have my 'Sean Reid' plywood configured properly for extreme corner scrutiny, but in this case I have isolated 100% crops in the upper-left.
1. Summicron 50mm F2 v5 at F2.8:
2. Jupiter-8 50mm F2 at F2.8:
3. Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 at F2.8:
4. Industar-61 L/D 55mm F2.8 at F2.8:
5. Industar-50 5cm F3.5 at F3.5:
6. Helios-103 53mm F1.8 at F2.8:
1. Summicron 50mm F2 v5 at F2.8:
2. Jupiter-8 50mm F2 at F2.8:
3. Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 at F2.8:
4. Industar-61 L/D 55mm F2.8 at F2.8:
5. Industar-50 5cm F3.5 at F3.5:
6. Helios-103 53mm F1.8 at F2.8:
Fotohuis
Well-known
Interesting, also that Helios-103 lens in the performance.
literiter
Well-known
That Summicron still beats the lot.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
????? Have you spot the plane of focus?
The FSU lenses are all a little back-focussing, and that is no surprise since the FSU camera's have a little different working distance from flange to filmplane.
Further it is clear that the older FSU-lenses have a more yellow cast than the modern Leica lens.
I had 7 F1.5 Jupiters, and only the later black one didn't have the yellow cast (and had much better coatings).
Btw I'm quite surprised about the quality of the Helios-103 (never had one), it is clearly the overall winner in this contest!
Would have loved to see in this contest an early 50-ties Summicron.
Sid836
Well-known
Better check your focus because when done properly the lot beats that Summicron easily
With such a focus error the whole test is pointless. Accurate focusing is critical when comparing lenses at least wide open.
Robert Lai
Well-known
If he is already using Live View, etc., to focus with, then how much better are these other lenses going to work for him in his real life state?
Summicron still wins in the centers, and the corners, given his eyesight and his equipment.
Even if the other lenses may theoretically be just as good, what is the point if they can't be focused as accurately as the summicron can?
Summicron still wins in the centers, and the corners, given his eyesight and his equipment.
Even if the other lenses may theoretically be just as good, what is the point if they can't be focused as accurately as the summicron can?
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Better check your focus because when done properly the lot beats that Summicron easily
With such a focus error the whole test is pointless. Accurate focusing is critical when comparing lenses at least wide open.
+1 but I guess even when the setup would just be right, that the Summicron "should" win - it has the better and more glass/coatings and therefore overall better corrections
In the past I did a lot of tests with Elmars against Industars: even a little worn 1936 Elmar would still provide a little better result than the Industars (and believe me, I had lots of these lenses in my hands since many came on cams I was asked to repair).
But again I'm very surprised by the results of the Helios
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
The focus errors in this test are very clearly - IMHO they can't be ignored
BTW even with these faults - I love these tests - thanks Bobby!
Sid836
Well-known
You should question the quality of the live view of the camera then, or the user's ability to use them properly. Focusing with the other lenses is just as easy as with summicron.
Also, have a look here http://forum.mflenses.com/helios-103-vs-jupiter-8-vs-vs-old-collapsible-summicron-t53684.html and let me know if the difference in performance justifies the sky higher price of a summicron.
wolves3012
Veteran
I'm not, I have one for my Kievs and frankly was shocked at how sharp it is when I first got it. It has a different "look" from the regular Jupiter 8, which is more old-school sort of thing but it blows the J-8 away in sharpness (well, sample size of one Helios and 2 Kiev-mount Jupiters anyway).
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Thanks Anthony for sharing your experience. I feel now I must get one too
Are good samples hard to find?