grapejohnson
Well-known
Does anyone know what kind of film Technicolor was, and if there was ever some kind of E6 35mm equivalent? I love the way old movies look and was just curious if anyone had some more technical info for me.
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
Their was two big aspects to old Technicolour, the first being the VW size camera that shot into a prism and separated the color in YCM's to B&W sock. The B&W stock I've seen was mostly Kodak, but it's been a few years since I've played with Technicolor YCM's.
The second aspect was the printing process, which was called IB Techicolour. This was an additive process that came from matrices (dye process). Hugely expensive process. The color is unreal and rarely fades. It's nice to have access to IB Tech print when doing preservation because you get a real idea of what the color really should look like on these olds films. This printing process was usued up until the late 60's and early 70's for release prints and didn't require 3-stripe Technicolour negs as matracies could be made from single stripe color negs such as Kodak's 5247 which surprisingly holds it's color too.
More at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolor
a
The second aspect was the printing process, which was called IB Techicolour. This was an additive process that came from matrices (dye process). Hugely expensive process. The color is unreal and rarely fades. It's nice to have access to IB Tech print when doing preservation because you get a real idea of what the color really should look like on these olds films. This printing process was usued up until the late 60's and early 70's for release prints and didn't require 3-stripe Technicolour negs as matracies could be made from single stripe color negs such as Kodak's 5247 which surprisingly holds it's color too.
More at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolor
a
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Technicolor was a process that used black and white films exposed through filters so that each film recorded one of the primary colors. It was a very complicated process, which is why it fell from use when good color films became available.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Separation filters have been done on 135 - but that already vanished when the format was still young and Kodak and Agfa introduced their first single image colour systems in the mid thirties.
Dye transfer is a matter of printing, and has also been done with enlargings - it was actually not that unusual on museum grade art prints until Kodak pulled the plug on some critical supply materials, like matrix film, about decade ago. There are people into DIY, but not yet with results that are up to the old stuff.
Dye transfer is a matter of printing, and has also been done with enlargings - it was actually not that unusual on museum grade art prints until Kodak pulled the plug on some critical supply materials, like matrix film, about decade ago. There are people into DIY, but not yet with results that are up to the old stuff.
grapejohnson
Well-known
wow, thanks for the info guys. that's more interesting and strange of a process than i ever imagined.
jwicaksana
Jakarta, Indonesia
Chiming in, can you give me examples of films produced with this method? Would be nice to watch it and enjoy the quality, if it hasn't been 'digitally remastered' that is. Thanks!
Photo_Smith
Well-known
I use the method to create trichromes. I shoot three mono negatives one though a red filter, one green and one blue then scan and combine in Photoshop.
Here is Neopan 400 mono film as a RGB trichrome the colours in the background are deliberate shadows manipulation.
The method I use is here:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2007_12_02_archive.html
And some with Agfa APX 100:
During the red exposure a bird sat on the rope at the back giving a cyan ghost. It's a time consuming process, to see more google Henri Gaud, he has a blog that turns this method into an art form.
I just play at it from time to time...
Here is Neopan 400 mono film as a RGB trichrome the colours in the background are deliberate shadows manipulation.
The method I use is here:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2007_12_02_archive.html
And some with Agfa APX 100:
During the red exposure a bird sat on the rope at the back giving a cyan ghost. It's a time consuming process, to see more google Henri Gaud, he has a blog that turns this method into an art form.
I just play at it from time to time...
Mohan
Established
I think the most famous film shot with this process is 'Gone with the wind', 'black narcissus' is also rather beautiful.
On a related note I highly suggest watching a documentary called 'CAMERAMAN: The Life & Work of Jack Cardiff', he was a pioneer of colour cinematography and an amazing man. You can get an idea of the technicolor look in the trailer; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN_aejkbh9c
3rdtrick
Well-known
Wikipedia has quite an interesting read on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolor
I found it quite interesting that the early versions of the process used only red and green to create the full color image. Even the 3 color version used orthochromatic film for the blue channel and panchromatic for the red and green. It would seem that using the two color process would be the key to getting the Technicolor look. Not sure if just separating in Photoshop and working with the red and green channels would do the trick but it might be worth trying. Sounds like a good project for someone with an M-Monochrome...
Pete
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolor
I found it quite interesting that the early versions of the process used only red and green to create the full color image. Even the 3 color version used orthochromatic film for the blue channel and panchromatic for the red and green. It would seem that using the two color process would be the key to getting the Technicolor look. Not sure if just separating in Photoshop and working with the red and green channels would do the trick but it might be worth trying. Sounds like a good project for someone with an M-Monochrome...
Pete
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
grapejohnson
Well-known
i was wondering how this would come out! these are amazing!
x-ray
Veteran
The Wizard of Oz is one of the best examples. A few of the scenes were shot on Kodachrome and separated for the 3 matrix. You can see the higher contrast in those scenes.
Technicolor was the name of a lab in that era and worked from color neg not the 3 strips of B&W. Much of the old color neg Technicolor looked bad compared to the real thing.
The problem with many of the old movies that were originally shot in the original Technicolor is they are multiple generations down now having been copied on internegative stock and reprinted on release stock. They don't look anything like the original print. I've never seen a good looking print of Gone With The Wind that hasn't been duplicated and hasn't been cropped for wide screen. On the other hand I've seen original prints of the Wizard of Oz and they're beautiful.
Technicolor was the name of a lab in that era and worked from color neg not the 3 strips of B&W. Much of the old color neg Technicolor looked bad compared to the real thing.
The problem with many of the old movies that were originally shot in the original Technicolor is they are multiple generations down now having been copied on internegative stock and reprinted on release stock. They don't look anything like the original print. I've never seen a good looking print of Gone With The Wind that hasn't been duplicated and hasn't been cropped for wide screen. On the other hand I've seen original prints of the Wizard of Oz and they're beautiful.
3rdtrick
Well-known
Thank you Grape,
This has been an interesting thread and I have been learning a lot about Technicolor. I have found a LR 3 & 4 preset that is supposed to duplicate the Technicolor look.
http://fstopspot.com/main/free-resources-for-photographers/free-lightroom-presets-technicolor-motion-picture/
Not sure if it is what you are looking for but it is free.
Pete
This has been an interesting thread and I have been learning a lot about Technicolor. I have found a LR 3 & 4 preset that is supposed to duplicate the Technicolor look.
http://fstopspot.com/main/free-resources-for-photographers/free-lightroom-presets-technicolor-motion-picture/
Not sure if it is what you are looking for but it is free.
Pete
jwicaksana
Jakarta, Indonesia
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
That would get you some prototypical 30's colour look. But few, if any, people would be able to recognize that. The last bi-chrome Technicolor motion pictures were printed before WWII. By the late forties Technicolor had already become unable to print their old bi-chrome processes, and destroyed their inventory of negatives - most films ceased to exist in bi-chrome by the late forties and only survived in the black and white version (or later copies dubbed to Ektacolor from some well-worn projection copy).
I have studied cinematography and worked as a projectionist at a major motion picture museum, and have never seen a original bi-chrome Technicolor in projection (and only two or three segments on a light table).
What most people would consider "Technicolor" are the dye transfer prints dominant in A-movie theatres until the seventies - but most of them were made off CN taking stock. The tri-chrome cameras fell out of use rather soon, while the printing process survived.
grapejohnson
Well-known
No problem! And thanks, I'm sure that might be useful for other people on here too. I guess I could have just wikipedia'd this info but I'm glad I didn't.
3rdtrick
Well-known
Me too, I am glad you did wiki it. This has been a really interesting thread. The LR plugin seems to add a bit too much purple and other colors and I do not remember seeing that in the old movies. Sevo, How do you remember the movies looking? Anyway I have found a good Photoshop tutorial on separating the components and recombining the red and green channels to simulate the two color process. I am still fascinated that you can get great color from just the red and green channels.
Pete
http://www.photoshoproadmap.com/Photoshop-blog/create-a-simple-two-color-technicolor-photoshop-filter-with-filter-forge/
Pete
http://www.photoshoproadmap.com/Photoshop-blog/create-a-simple-two-color-technicolor-photoshop-filter-with-filter-forge/
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Quite nondescript, really - they obviously put all their attention to making the make-up, costumes and set decoration bi-color safe, so the prints did not look like it.
grapejohnson
Well-known
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROoUz5jBXOg
kodachrome got paul simon, but the godfather of techno made this song about technicolor.
kodachrome got paul simon, but the godfather of techno made this song about technicolor.
3rdtrick
Well-known
I am in a quiet area now so I can't listen.
I do however have two samples of photos. The first is a simple 2 step Technicolor made in Photoshop by copying the green channel to the blue channel. The second is using the LR Preset I found called 'Classic Technicolor'. I am not really sure if they are accurate, I think the second has too much purple. Sevo, can you help??? Are they close to what you remember?
Thanks,
Pete
Red Green Technicolor in PS
Classic Technicolor LR Preset
I do however have two samples of photos. The first is a simple 2 step Technicolor made in Photoshop by copying the green channel to the blue channel. The second is using the LR Preset I found called 'Classic Technicolor'. I am not really sure if they are accurate, I think the second has too much purple. Sevo, can you help??? Are they close to what you remember?
Thanks,
Pete
Red Green Technicolor in PS
Classic Technicolor LR Preset