pieter
Established
Hi,
My name is Pieter from The Netherlands. Please allow me to extract some knowledge from the well of wisdom that is the rangefinderforum.
Since a while I have been shooting with a Sony Nex-5n with some M lenses. What surprised me was how I loved shooting manually. It just seems to make the process of taking a picture a much more satisfying and creative one.
So for the last couple of months I have been thinking about buying a second-hand M8 or M9 (I have to admit I'm still on the fence between these two fine cameras). For the kind of money involved in such a purchase I prefer to deal with somebody face to face instead of having the camera sent to me by mail.
So when I find a camera for a fair price I will probably go by to pick it up myself. Buying second hand I expect no guaranty beyond the doorstep, so I would like to make sure the camera is in good working condition when stepping out the door with the camera (and leaving my hard earned cash behind)
What I would like to ask you, the good people of this fine forum, is if you could help me point me towards some things I should look out for when buying an M8 or M9? Is there a way to test a M8 or M9 quickly during the process of buying one second hand?
First of all I already have an M-mount lens (biogon 35mm f/2). Second I feel that for this kind of purchase I should be allowed to test the camera for about an hour. Thirdly I have a macbook laptop with lightroom 4 installed.
How would you test a M8 or M9 in one hour using the biogon 35mm and a laptop with lightroom?
Take different pictures at different iso ratings?
Maybe pictures with the lens cap on as well?
Make pictures of a white wall to see irregularities?
Bonus points if you could devise a complete test with time table within one hour.
Any help would be very much appreciated, so thank you all in advance.
My name is Pieter from The Netherlands. Please allow me to extract some knowledge from the well of wisdom that is the rangefinderforum.
Since a while I have been shooting with a Sony Nex-5n with some M lenses. What surprised me was how I loved shooting manually. It just seems to make the process of taking a picture a much more satisfying and creative one.
So for the last couple of months I have been thinking about buying a second-hand M8 or M9 (I have to admit I'm still on the fence between these two fine cameras). For the kind of money involved in such a purchase I prefer to deal with somebody face to face instead of having the camera sent to me by mail.
So when I find a camera for a fair price I will probably go by to pick it up myself. Buying second hand I expect no guaranty beyond the doorstep, so I would like to make sure the camera is in good working condition when stepping out the door with the camera (and leaving my hard earned cash behind)
What I would like to ask you, the good people of this fine forum, is if you could help me point me towards some things I should look out for when buying an M8 or M9? Is there a way to test a M8 or M9 quickly during the process of buying one second hand?
First of all I already have an M-mount lens (biogon 35mm f/2). Second I feel that for this kind of purchase I should be allowed to test the camera for about an hour. Thirdly I have a macbook laptop with lightroom 4 installed.
How would you test a M8 or M9 in one hour using the biogon 35mm and a laptop with lightroom?
Take different pictures at different iso ratings?
Maybe pictures with the lens cap on as well?
Make pictures of a white wall to see irregularities?
Bonus points if you could devise a complete test with time table within one hour.
Any help would be very much appreciated, so thank you all in advance.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Simple. Buy from a good shop, with guaranty. About a quick DIY test, forget about it, it can never be more than an indication.
x-ray
Veteran
What are some of the more common issues to look for? Obviously dents, impact damage and scratches or damage to the filter over the sensor. What are common issues especially with the M9?
pieter
Established
Buying from a good shop with guaranty is an excellent suggestion, of course, and would have my preference were it not for the money.
The M8 or M8.2 is hard to find and buy from a good shop in The Netherlands, and when available I find the premium you pay for the guaranty and the good shop to be quite steep. The option I did see was almost twice the going price of the camera on sites like ebay and marktplaats.
As for the M9; While the difference between the new price (in a good shop with guaranty) and second hand price is still relatively small (between 1000 and 1500 euro), for me that 1000/1500 euro easily places the camera outside of my budget.
So considering those (admittedly personal) points, I am still interested in buying second hand. Even when taking into account the risk inherent to buying second hand, and knowing buying new from a good shop with guaranty is a safer (but more expensive) option.
That brings me to what you call an indication which might be gotten by a DIY test. This is exactly what I am looking for. (with the excellent point added that this is in no way a replacement of a good shop with a proper guaranty, and can never serve as such. It will ONLY be an indication.)
How would you set up such a DIY test which would never be more than an indication about the condition of a camera?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well,maybe a bit above what you were planning to spend, but here is a NEW shop demo 8.2 for 2500 Euro. I doubt you would pay less on ebay.
http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/1517433/leica-m82-chrome.html
And a well-used one @ 1795,--
http://www.meister-camera.com/berlin/index.php?id=85&tt_products[product]=6591&cHash=8797784b7d66d91f9b27838d58fbd204
http://www.fotokonijnenberg.nl/product/1517433/leica-m82-chrome.html
And a well-used one @ 1795,--
http://www.meister-camera.com/berlin/index.php?id=85&tt_products[product]=6591&cHash=8797784b7d66d91f9b27838d58fbd204
Richard G
Veteran
I'll have a crack at a proposal, especially as you may not have a looked at any M rangefinder to buy. I would check for dents and scratches. Look at the baseplate carefully and see that it hasn't been distorted around the tripod bush by something too heavy hanging off there or having been overtightened on a tripod. Check your 35mm frame lines are cleanly loaded with your lens (i'm talking M9 here) and ask to mount one of the sellers 50s at least for the same assessment. Take some close shots wide open and check that looking out the store window and focussing at infinity that the rangefinder images are aligned and exactly coincident, including in the vertical direction.
Check the actuation of the mode switch and that all functions can be selected. Shoot the sky to see if there are any grey spots that indicate the sensor is dirty. Take your own SD card, preferably not SanDisk in my view, and see that it inserts easily and springs out nicely and you can take your shots on that card. See that the battery spring switch is firm and not falling off. I've seen reports of these breaking.
I don't know what problems sensor cracking reveals exactly. Inspecting the sensor, if you are allowed, can be selected from the menu. With a penlight you can look at the beautiful array of tiny micro lenses. I don't know whether sensor problems lie at that level or behind there.
Take a few shots and put them on your computer. Take some at 1/4000s to make sure that it is working well at that speed and test the 1s speed by listening and with your watch second hand to see it's in the ball park. Can't see how it could be anything else with an electronic camera. Difficult to see what would be wrong after those tests.
Check the actuation of the mode switch and that all functions can be selected. Shoot the sky to see if there are any grey spots that indicate the sensor is dirty. Take your own SD card, preferably not SanDisk in my view, and see that it inserts easily and springs out nicely and you can take your shots on that card. See that the battery spring switch is firm and not falling off. I've seen reports of these breaking.
I don't know what problems sensor cracking reveals exactly. Inspecting the sensor, if you are allowed, can be selected from the menu. With a penlight you can look at the beautiful array of tiny micro lenses. I don't know whether sensor problems lie at that level or behind there.
Take a few shots and put them on your computer. Take some at 1/4000s to make sure that it is working well at that speed and test the 1s speed by listening and with your watch second hand to see it's in the ball park. Can't see how it could be anything else with an electronic camera. Difficult to see what would be wrong after those tests.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
A few things:
Rangefinder adjustment is a bit of a non-issue, as any competent repairperson can fix it quickly and not expensively.
A cracked sensor will show up at the fist shot.
Acfually there is little you can check, except cosmetic condition.
One useful thing to do is to shoot a fairly even surface @ ISO 2500 and three or four stops underexposed and check for fine red or blue lines on the image. In that case have them send the camera to Solms first.
As it is so hard to predict failure on an electronic camera warranty is paramount imo.
A dirty sensor is wholly uninteresting. It is a DIY routine matter.
Rangefinder adjustment is a bit of a non-issue, as any competent repairperson can fix it quickly and not expensively.
A cracked sensor will show up at the fist shot.
Acfually there is little you can check, except cosmetic condition.
One useful thing to do is to shoot a fairly even surface @ ISO 2500 and three or four stops underexposed and check for fine red or blue lines on the image. In that case have them send the camera to Solms first.
As it is so hard to predict failure on an electronic camera warranty is paramount imo.
A dirty sensor is wholly uninteresting. It is a DIY routine matter.
pieter
Established
Jaap, Thank you very much for your suggestions.
I was unaware of the M8.2 at a good shop like Konijnenberg. This looks like a very good deal. Especially considering it's a M8.2 and a shop demo model. I will certainly consider it.
And thank you, Richard. Those kind of things to look for while buying are what I was looking for. I have indeed never tried a digital rangefinder and would never have known to look for the things you mention.
I was unaware of the M8.2 at a good shop like Konijnenberg. This looks like a very good deal. Especially considering it's a M8.2 and a shop demo model. I will certainly consider it.
And thank you, Richard. Those kind of things to look for while buying are what I was looking for. I have indeed never tried a digital rangefinder and would never have known to look for the things you mention.