Texas or Tokyo Leica?

[TimF]

With the aims of increased spontaneity and reduced weight, I'm thinking about trading in my current medium format SLR for a rangefinder.

The two contenders are the Fuji GW690 Mk II (definitely not the Mk III though, a friend had one, and although he loved the pictures from it, he described the camera as a piece of plastic junk!), and the Mamiya 7 or 7 II.

Having interchangeable lenses is not going to be a prime factor in any decision I might make, so if anybody has experience of both these models, and can give some insights, lets hear it. TIA. 😀

 

[aizan]

if you've got access to developing and enlarging 6x9, go for the fuji.

 

[Kevin]

You might even want a good folder, like the Bessa II with coupled rangefinder. I am looking for one of these myself because my Fujica GSW690 is sometimes just too big.

 

[Andrew McPhee]

I am considering a Fuji GW670. I looked at the Mamiya 7 but from reports I've read on the Net it has rangefinder problems, it goes out of adjustment frequently.

 

[rich815]

You friend is wrong about the III being "plastic junk". It's very durable and that modern plastic is in some ways better against droppage than the earlier metal monsters. If weight is an issue the II's are like rocks! I have the III and find it perhaps the sharpest camera I've every owned and it's quite well-made and durable. Do not discount it!

Richard
www.fujirangefinder.com

 

[DougK]

I agree with Richard, my Fuji GA645 is mostly plastic and it's very well-built while still being reasonably light and easy to carry. Takes great photos too.

 

[RObert Budding]

Tim,

You need to start hanging out with smarter people (welcome aboard, you'll find them here). Mamiya rangefinder can go out of adjustment, but so can other rangefinders. And the Mamiya lenses are superb.

Rpbert

 

[Poptart]

I have one of the fuji x-mount lenses for 35mm that I'm trying to find a use for--any suggestions? (I don't have a Fuijca body.) It's a 135 2.8 in mint condition. What could I use it for?

 

[rotzbremse]

I love my Fuji GL690 (the old model). It is built rock-solid, and the 100mm auto lens is wunderbar.

 

[fenio]

I am also considering the fuji GSW690 and the Mamiya 7. I shot a roll through a friend fuji and the photos were impressive. I have not handled nor seen any photos from a Mamiya 7. How do these cameras compare in terms of: Handling, optical quality, and durability? Also, who repairs fujis in the USA?

 

[JoeFriday]

I've been looking at those same cameras lately, as well (apparently we ALL are).. there are pros and cons all the way around.. the Mamiya is more versatile, but there is the viewfinder problem you mentioned.. the Fuji is a lot cheaper, but pick a lens and stick with it

there are other options, too.. the Plaubel Makina 67 gets rave reviews.. no viewfinder problems ever.. but again, fixed lens.. and not cheap.. also hard to find, and it's not going to be new

and the Bronica RF645.. the only thing I don't like about that one is that I want to shoot at least 6x6 format

I keep coming back to the Mamiya 6.. if only because it collapses down to a fairly manageable size when the lens isn't extended.. but for now, I'm going to start out with a Holga.. maybe add in an old Agfa Isola.. and when everyone else here finally gives up film for digital, I'll go through their dumpsters and get their MF equipment for free 😉

 

[jan normandale]

there is a Mamiya 6/7 RF section here. Read thru it to get an idea of some of the capabilities of these fine cameras. Additionally the Fuji 670/690 RFs are also more than capable.

I don't know where your sources identified problems. These cameras have problems but so do everyother maker and camera they put out. I wouldn't obsess over that issue. Every camera made has someone who can give a horror story and bad review. Bottom line both are cult cameras and for very justifiable reason. The glass is amazing.

 

[yossarian]

Several years back (just before the huge price increases) I bought a Fuji GW 690 III
(90 mm) and had high expectations for the lens--5 elements and multicoated.

My first roll of Velvia told the whole story. The lens was reasonably sharp with little difference center to edge. But...something I never would have guessed--major lens
flare in shots with the sun at an oblique angle just outside the frame.

I also had two instances in which the film (120, not 220) failed to wind tightly and spilled over the edges of the take-up spool.

This is one I don't pine away over having sold. The matte black plastic body also seemed out of place on what was ostensibly a pro camera.

I've not used any of these, but I think the Mamiyas or the small Bronica would be much more satisfying--just an opinion.

 

[FrankS]

I have a Mamiya 6 (new), and love it. The 75mm lens is terrific. It is one of only 3 electronic cameras that I put up with. (Hexar AF and Nikon F4)

 

[fenio]

Thanks for the info. I wanted to get a camera that is quicker to pull out and use than my Horseman VHR. I wanted something rugged and easy to carry in a smaller bag. But as said all cameras involve compromise. Anyone use a TLR rollie-wide or a hasselblad SWC?

 

[sf]

Several years back (just before the huge price increases) I bought a Fuji GW 690 III

[....]

I've not used any of these, but I think the Mamiyas or the small Bronica would be much more satisfying--just an opinion.

Yes, yes it is. My RF645 is amazing - except the film wind lever feels less than sexy. That is my ONLY qualm. I looked at the Mamiyas, Fujis, and the Plaubel Makina 67, and none of them measured up to the Bronica.

The Mamiya's collapsing lens dealy just adds more ways for the camera to break, for dust to get in there, and it is annoying to use - and you don't really get that much out of it. And it feels plasticky like the Fujis - only more so. And the VF, focusing patches, and lenses are all second rate compared with the Bronica. I mean, that is my experience with it. Some people love it, and surely FrankS has good reason to enjoy his. The Fujis just feel like toys. Expensive toys, but toys nonetheless - all plasticy, etc, and without meters, I just don't see the point. . . . oh yeah 6x9, well, I prefer the super compact, super tough, super well designed RF645. And I prefer simple lens designs always. The fujis seem pretty intense, but I really don't know. I spent a great deal of time in consideration over the Mamiya 6, 7, and the RF645. I am VERY glad I decided to go with the RF645. The Mamiya 7 is just too big, too expensive to feed, and not as PERFECT as the RF645.

See my review under the Bronica RF forum folder, "I have the RF645". I go off on it. Apparently, I am crazy about it, hence the Avatar change (may be only a temporary thing). It IS my only camera, though, so it deserves all of my love.

Oh, and one more thing : the RF645 is the MOST satisfying camera I have ever used, held, etc. It is a divine creation of the camera God. Perhaps the last we'll see of filmy divinity.

 

[sf]

and the Bronica RF645.. the only thing I don't like about that one is that I want to shoot at least 6x6 format

equipment for free 😉

Well, 6x6 is nice sometimes, but I find that the orientation and rectangular shape of hte frame helps me design compositions. Not to mention, you must crop from 6x6 to the print format most of the time, anyway. And the 6x4.5 format of the RF645 is part of what allows its incredible compactness. It is most of the best of camera things squeezed into a totally reasonable body. If you are going to crop for printing, which most of us do, then you gain $$$ in efficiency (16 instead of 10 frames on 120). You gain time, for not changing as often, and you are assembling compositions on the fly, which is nice sometimes come printing time.

 

[jan normandale]

Hey Shutterflower ;-) what do you really think? heh!

"See my review under the Bronica RF forum folder, "I have the RF645". I go off on it. Apparently, I am crazy about it, hence the Avatar change (may be only a temporary thing). It IS my only camera, though, so it deserves all of my love."

then theres Frank "I have a Mamiya 6 (new), and love it. The 75mm lens is terrific. It is one of only 3 electronic cameras that I put up with. (Hexar AF and Nikon F4)"

Nothing like being a true believer...

My fave is an Yashica Electro 35 GSN... for all round. I can go on about those ...

We are all suffering from "Rangefinder Madness" and lovin' it!

 

[Doug]

I'm another Bronica RF645 fan, though I admit no experience with the Mamiyas or the big Fujis. I do have a Fuji GS645S and a GA645W. These have certain advantages, but over all I think the Bronica has the best mix of features, interface, and feel. I also like my big Pentaxes but that's OT here. 🙂

 

[gchpaco]

The Fuji interchangable lens rangefinders, while wonderful, are surprisingly large and heavy even when you're expecting it. But you were talking about the fixed lens versions, which is a little different (although still enormous). The fixed lens versions have two main quirks besides the collosal size and scale--first, they make a rather loud clacking noise upon firing the shutter (it's not actually got anything to do with the shutter, it's advancing a shutter counter in the body) and second they don't actually have a B setting, or for that matter a normal T; to get the lens to close after T you have to reset the shutter speed to something else. The III series is no more a plastic body than an F100 is, but perhaps that is somehow offensive to you.

The Mamiya at least has interchangable lenses and has a generally well regarded wide angle selection. It's also available new, meaning you won't have to deal with keeping a long out-of-production camera working. Unfortunately the rangefinder is just not long enough to focus the 150mm lens at full aperture accurately, and it is expensive--I have gotten a GL690, GM670, 65, 100 AE and 180mm lens for about the same amount of money as the Mamiya 7 body alone goes for.

None of these cameras come with fast lenses. The fastest lens in the GL690 lineup is the f/3.5 normal lens. The Mamiya has an f4 80mm.

As others have mentioned, the other major cameras medium format rangefinders that you might look at include the Mamiya 6 (which is pretty well regarded, actually) and the Bronica, if you can stomach something smaller than 6x7. The Bronica has its own compromises foremost of which is lens selection, but appears to be pretty solid if you can get over them. There are also some non-interchangable cameras like the Plaubel, but the Plaubel in particular has a reputation for being fragile. The older Fuji GS645s are folders, but manual focus and tons of metal; you might like them. I don't recommend you look at any of the pre-war design folders. There are a few scale cameras in medium format that have most of the advantages of a rangefinder design, but the only one I'm even passing familiar with is the Alpa which is expensive on a scale that makes the Mamiya look like pocket change.

Me, I'm too broke to buy Mamiya gear, and I like slightly long telephotos much too much to get along with the Bronica, so it's Fuji or bust for me (or getting a 6x7 SLR, which would bust my back). And old Fuji at that, because they never made a fixed long lens version.