eleskin
Well-known
Prices will eventually settle down to a level where even people who never had an M digital wil be able to get one. $1,800.00 seems to be a rational level of price even now. Why should an M8 be more than a mint M6 or M7?
I am thinking about buying an M9 this year, but may decide to wait for the M9.2 or M10. Why?
The M8 is still a great camera capable of many things. It may be more logical, even practical for some of us who bought the M8 to wait until the M9.2 etc, comes out. I only have one M8, and I am totally happy with it. What I do need right now more than anything is a backup camera (My M8 is my only digital). A second hand M8 at $1,800 is just about right. M8's at over $3,000 or so does not make sense to me in that the $3000 plus dollars could go a long way to fund an M9. So here, $1,800 is the rational price. I think it would stay at that level in that the M8 is hardly outdated. Its files exceed the quality of my Fuji GSW 690 with Velvia. So I predict the M8 will eventually settle down at the $2,000 -$1,800 mark, but no lower due to the enormous capability of the camera. It outperforms my my film M's by a large percent, and knowing this, a valuation of $1,800 to $2,000 seems just right. Any higher, and you will be cutting into funds which can purchase an M9. Any lower, and you are giving the camera away. I have used M's for 25 years, and by far, the M8 I have is the best M I have ever used!!!!
I am thinking about buying an M9 this year, but may decide to wait for the M9.2 or M10. Why?
The M8 is still a great camera capable of many things. It may be more logical, even practical for some of us who bought the M8 to wait until the M9.2 etc, comes out. I only have one M8, and I am totally happy with it. What I do need right now more than anything is a backup camera (My M8 is my only digital). A second hand M8 at $1,800 is just about right. M8's at over $3,000 or so does not make sense to me in that the $3000 plus dollars could go a long way to fund an M9. So here, $1,800 is the rational price. I think it would stay at that level in that the M8 is hardly outdated. Its files exceed the quality of my Fuji GSW 690 with Velvia. So I predict the M8 will eventually settle down at the $2,000 -$1,800 mark, but no lower due to the enormous capability of the camera. It outperforms my my film M's by a large percent, and knowing this, a valuation of $1,800 to $2,000 seems just right. Any higher, and you will be cutting into funds which can purchase an M9. Any lower, and you are giving the camera away. I have used M's for 25 years, and by far, the M8 I have is the best M I have ever used!!!!
alecgold
Established
I've read such a lot of negative reviews about the M8 that I was really afraid of getting one. But I've got a 35mm lux and a 90 cron and do like these a lot, my M6 is still very nice, but film is not always easy to come by, at least not in reasonable prices. And the development/printing of film is starting to get more and more difficult every day it seems. No problem if I want to travel 25 km orso, but that's not really convenient.
This afternoon I saw a nice demo M8. Two years warranty, not a single scratch or mark on the body, got an extra battery for the same price. Everything was brand new. really everything, strap, charger, battery, all packed and sealed in plastics. And for a price of €2200. An M8.2 is perhaps a bit better, an M9 has a FF CCD, but I'm not a professional, but this way I can get a pristine body and still use my much loved and superb glass.
So yeah, I might take the plunge with a M8 and not wait for the M9.1 or M10 to come and perhaps make the M8.2 or M9 cheaper, it could easily take another year or 2, and the price might drop for another 200 bucks, but I won't get an unused "demo" at that time.
So far, I've seen three different used M8's for sale (went by and hold them, used them a bit etc) and they usually look allright, feel pretty good, but I really don't see the point in owning a used M8 because it was 200 bucks cheaper than the perfect demo.
This afternoon I saw a nice demo M8. Two years warranty, not a single scratch or mark on the body, got an extra battery for the same price. Everything was brand new. really everything, strap, charger, battery, all packed and sealed in plastics. And for a price of €2200. An M8.2 is perhaps a bit better, an M9 has a FF CCD, but I'm not a professional, but this way I can get a pristine body and still use my much loved and superb glass.
So yeah, I might take the plunge with a M8 and not wait for the M9.1 or M10 to come and perhaps make the M8.2 or M9 cheaper, it could easily take another year or 2, and the price might drop for another 200 bucks, but I won't get an unused "demo" at that time.
So far, I've seen three different used M8's for sale (went by and hold them, used them a bit etc) and they usually look allright, feel pretty good, but I really don't see the point in owning a used M8 because it was 200 bucks cheaper than the perfect demo.
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eleskin
Well-known
On Ebay, I am still seeing $3,000 plus M8's. These prices are a little high. Could this be due to the fact that M9's are hard to come by at the moment?
One side of me says it is good my M8 has great value. The other side of me says this sucks for anyone looking for one as a backup camera like I am. I cannot rationalize blowing 3K plus when that money would be better used by putting it away for an M9 and having my M8 become my backup. Prices are not rational yet on used M8's, but eventually they will be.
One side of me says it is good my M8 has great value. The other side of me says this sucks for anyone looking for one as a backup camera like I am. I cannot rationalize blowing 3K plus when that money would be better used by putting it away for an M9 and having my M8 become my backup. Prices are not rational yet on used M8's, but eventually they will be.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I don't think it's because M9's are hard to come by. It's that they are $7,000 even if you do come by them. And that's too much for most folks.
Well, they aren't $1800 right now because there is still a demand for them. Prices have actually went up a little again recently. It is worth more than the M6 and M7 because it is newer and because it more relevant (being digital) to today's photographer as a user camera. The M9's steep price will insure that the M8 stays at current levels for at least a little while longer.
alecgold
Established
Hmmm, I'm calculating in Euro's and you are in Dollars. But $3k for a backup is steep.
Why not have an M6 with some films as a backup? Dunno if you have one, but it would make a pretty good backup for most work, I guess.
Why not have an M6 with some films as a backup? Dunno if you have one, but it would make a pretty good backup for most work, I guess.
bluepenguin
Established
The price will settle down but the price will not go down much as long as the M9 is selling at $7000 and hard to get them.
M9 have an advantage over M8 but not as much as I can pay additional $3~5K more.
M9 have an advantage over M8 but not as much as I can pay additional $3~5K more.
ampguy
Veteran
Could be
Could be
That these M8's work well and have no issues.
I see a lot of folks buying refurbs and used ones at dealers that someone was willing to let go at *way* low prices rather than deal with another buyer who wanted a good M8 from the get-go, rather than spending months, to try to get it fixed right, if ever.
Could be
That these M8's work well and have no issues.
I see a lot of folks buying refurbs and used ones at dealers that someone was willing to let go at *way* low prices rather than deal with another buyer who wanted a good M8 from the get-go, rather than spending months, to try to get it fixed right, if ever.
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Is there such a thing as an M8 "Classic"?
peterm1
Veteran
Except that people may not be willing to part with one for that amount. I know one owner who has upgraded to an M9 who is hanging on to his M8 as a back up just because he thinks the amount being offered for them is too little.
UPHOTO
Member
That makes absolutely no sense.
We are talking about a product that is now an electronics product and not the mechanical cameras that Leica was known for.
An Electronics product will decrease in value faster. That camera is worth less the longer he holds onto it.
rustysheepdog
Member
I think it does make sense. A relevant observation here is that M8 and M9 owners don't actually see the cameras as "electronics product", nor do those who want to buy them. Rather, they see them as "Leica cameras", paying and asking prices they think appropriate to the cameras' value to them as photographic tools. That's why a used M8 can't yet be bought for USD 1,800 (say GBP 1,200). Maybe in the future, but not today.
Athos6
Tao Master
Hmm, ever look at the price of used Epsons? I always though people were crazy or stupid for paying 1,500+ bucks for one when 2000+ will buy you an M8. The price of those Epsons has remained pretty stable. Now for all is flaws, even without the IR filter, my used M8 spanks the R-d1 /s/x. Normal electronics logic doesn't apply in "magic rangefinder land" where bodies sell for more if 1) they are in pristine condition or 2) they have the perfect amount of brassing irregardless of other issues. If the economy of rangefinders worked normally, the R-D1 would cost $400-600 max depending on the condition (like used Nikon D200's) And the M8 would cost $1500.
I agree...
ducttape
Established
Correct on your comment and the one you commented on (IMO)
While it seems there is a floor to the price (notice I didn't say value) that is relative and I think it fluctuates. Is a supposedly cheaper electronics body worth more than a mechanical body? Not in this man's book. But if I want one, I know I will pay more for electronics than say a used M3 of comparable utility.
For instance I just 'dumped' my 2+ year old, $4500 M8 demo for $2800 on the auction site. I didn't see it appreciating any, and I wasn't appreciating it any either.
Concurrently with that I paid the same amount of money for a demo MP (which I love to death, BTW) and a little earlier this year paid $365 for a used M3.I feel I was lucky with all three transactions.
I still have my demo R-D1 from years back. It has the reduced size sensor but I wasn't willing to go digital cold turkey entirely.
Would I buy an M9? Not for current retail. Will IT too fall to $1800-$2400? Probably not before my eyesight requires an autofocus. I would like one but at the moment just don't see the depreciation thing working for me.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Why does that not make sense? Doesn't the value of a product arise from both the price the prospective buyer is willing to pay AND the price the seller is willing to take?
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I can only give my impressions. I have really enjoyed my M8 and love the wide variety of lenses I can use with it (M, LTM, Contax/Nikon-S w/adapter). It is quite a platform. I would not take $3,000 for mine as there would be no way to use my RF glass without spending $7,000. I'm sure in time (+/- 5 years) prices on the M9 will edge down and I will make the switch. Right now? Clicking away.
JPSuisse
Well-known
Too me, the argument makes sense.
If you think something is worth more than what you are offered, just wait a little while. I do the same thing when I sell grain. (Selling grain BTW is also a business decision...) If the price is too low, I wait awhile.
I think USD 3'000 would be an okay price, if I decided to sell my M8 Classic. It's about the minimum I would accept. But, for under USD 3'000, I would probably just hang on to the camera for a while longer.
However, at this point in time, I am not in the market to sell. So, you won't find my camera on Ebay to buy. Ergo, the supply goes down, and the prices will go up.
The biggest problem with the M8 has indeed come to be the IR filters that keep me from just changing the lenses around as I choose. That's not a big enough of a pain for me to sell yet, but I probably wouldn't buy another M8 as a backup.
Cheers,
JP
If you think something is worth more than what you are offered, just wait a little while. I do the same thing when I sell grain. (Selling grain BTW is also a business decision...) If the price is too low, I wait awhile.
I think USD 3'000 would be an okay price, if I decided to sell my M8 Classic. It's about the minimum I would accept. But, for under USD 3'000, I would probably just hang on to the camera for a while longer.
However, at this point in time, I am not in the market to sell. So, you won't find my camera on Ebay to buy. Ergo, the supply goes down, and the prices will go up.
The biggest problem with the M8 has indeed come to be the IR filters that keep me from just changing the lenses around as I choose. That's not a big enough of a pain for me to sell yet, but I probably wouldn't buy another M8 as a backup.
Cheers,
JP
