The 50/75 framelines

[telenous]

I need some advice from owners of M cameras which include the 75 frameline (M4 onwards). I am thinking of buying the Summicron 75 but the lens is so very expensive that it makes prohibitive for the time being the replacement of one of my M2, M3 with an M6. I was thinking that I may be able to use the lens with the 50 framelines especially if they are really close to the 75 ones. I 've heard some users say that they forget to use the 75 lines because they are indeed quite close to the 50's but I have no idea if this is slightly exaggerated or not. An alternative would be to use the 90 framelines on my M3, they are quite spaceous and if I could allow for some extra room when using the 75. So, anyway, my question is how close are the 50/75 framelines? Thanks very much in advance,

 

[Nachkebia]

Nice question, I am also very interested in this 🙂
Have you thought about 90mm cron?

 

[jaapv]

I would say 50 mm plus 15 percent. I wouldn't worry, just use the 50 mm lines for your first film and you'll see what leeway you have. It's a great lens and is superb not only for lowlight use but anytime you want t "paint with light". Fro 4.0 onwards it is as tacksharp as any Summicron. truly versatile and not as heavy as some make out...

 

[telenous]

Jaap, thanks very much. As you say the best will be to actually try the lens, framing with M's allows for some leeway. 15% less than 50, that doesn't sound too bad.

Nachkebia - from what I have seen the Cron 90 AA is also a very special lens, no doubt about that. The signature looks to me quite similar (in a family resemblance kind of way) to the Cron 75. But: the Cron 75 is smaller, lighter, it focuses down to 70cm (which I think makes it the closest focusing lens save for the Macro Elmarit 90) and, perhaps most important of all, from photos I 've seen here and elsewhere, it has a fantastic sparkle.

 

[sebastel]

there are pictures of the framelines in the finder in the *.pdf files available at leica's web page (MP_Instructions_en.pdf, pages 78, 79, 88 and 89).

does this help?

regards,
sebastian

 

[telenous]

It does help indeed - thanks very much Sebastian.

 

[Nachkebia]

telenous thats nice to know, I was thinking about same range, how does zeiss sonnar 85mm compare to those?
Well sonnar focuses at 1.0m minimum......

 

[tom_f77]

You could also look out for a CV accessory 75mm finder; it's 1:1 and very nice. I used to have one for a bessa-t but used it all the time on the R2 even though it had a 75mm frameline.

Tom

 

[jaapv]

Jaap, thanks very much. As you say the best will be to actually try the lens, framing with M's allows for some leeway. 15% less than 50, that doesn't sound too bad.

Nachkebia - from what I have seen the Cron 90 AA is also a very special lens, no doubt about that. The signature looks to me quite similar (in a family resemblance kind of way) to the Cron 75. But: the Cron 75 is smaller, lighter, it focuses down to 70cm (which I think makes it the closest focusing lens save for the Macro Elmarit 90) and, perhaps most important of all, from photos I 've seen here and elsewhere, it has a fantastic sparkle.

Sorry, I misread lux for cron. That is about the sharpest and beautiful you can get...🙂🙂 even wide open.
75 mm is a nice length, I prefer it to 90. Have fun with your new lens, you'll enjoy it!

 

[sleepyhead]

I don't have a lot of experience here, but I have used a CV 75mm 2.5 with a 28/90 adapter. I found framing with the 90mm lines quite okay - I would think in terms of a "tight 90mm" when composing, and then you get that extra bit around the subject.

I get the impression there are two camps: those who prefer to extrapolate tight framelines out, and those who prefer to imagine a smaller area within larger lines. I think either can be fine once you're familiar with the lens and lines.

 

[telenous]

Thanks Tom, the viewfinder is a very good idea and an affordable alternative to having to buy a 'new' M6.

Jaap thanks - I haven't actually bought the lens yet but I think I will go weak on my knees one of the next days and go ahead with it. I agree about the 75 focal length, it looks great and the Summicron is a stunner.

Vladimir - The Sonnar also looks good. It is regretable that the ZI didn't include the 75 framelines but perhaps a new Sonnar would alleviate the loss😀

 

[telenous]

I don't have a lot of experience here, but I have used a CV 75mm 2.5 with a 28/90 adapter. I found framing with the 90mm lines quite okay - I would think in terms of a "tight 90mm" when composing, and then you get that extra bit around the subject.

I get the impression there are two camps: those who prefer to extrapolate tight framelines out, and those who prefer to imagine a smaller area within larger lines. I think either can be fine once you're familiar with the lens and lines.

I think I would actually prefer the 'tight composing' by using th 90 framelines. With the M3 there can be some advantage when using a longer lens like the Cron 75 but then I 'd have to manually select the 90 framelins since the 75 lines do not bring them up themselves. A minor inconvenience, I 'm sure.

 

[wpb]

Would it be possible for Don or Sherry to replace the frame line mask in the M2 with one from an M4 or M6? Could be much cheaper, and you could do it at the same time as a CLA. Just a thought.

 

[peter_n]

Slightly OT but since the lens was mentioned above I have the APO Summicron 90 ASPH. If you are planning on using it a lot at closer distances think again. From medium to long distances it is stunning. It is also heavy, I had to get a TA handgrip for the body (love the TA handgrip BTW).

 

[jaapv]

Would it be possible for Don or Sherry to replace the frame line mask in the M2 with one from an M4 or M6? Could be much cheaper, and you could do it at the same time as a CLA. Just a thought.

Yes it is. it is even an official Leica upgrade. It would probably be cheaper to have it done by those you mentioned.

 

[telenous]

Sorry, I 've only just seen these further replies to my question.

wpb - good idea. The problem is I don't really want to interfere with the frameline layout of the M2 (or the M3). Perhaps I could do better if I were to sell one of these cameras in order to replace it with an M6 but then again I also have some reasons (most important of which, I think, is the interrupted workflow with one metered and one meterless camera) not to. The other reason not to is that my M3 has recently been CLA'd while the M2 is getting one as we speak!

Peter - I used the Nikon 85 for a while - a wonderful lens that I rarely used because of its weight. If the Summicron 90 is comparable in weight then I don't see me going for it. May I ask you though why you think that use of the 'Cron 90 AA at closer distances isn't advantageous?

Roland - thanks very much, excellent advice. I was thinking of using the lens on the M3 - I will not have the framelines but the longer effective baselength will presumably give me greater accuracy. So, I lose some and win some. The viewfinder is the most economical way to get around the problem of composition I think but if I can live without it then I will just use the lens sans framelines or viewfinder.

Many thanks again,

 

[Dougg]

I'll "third" Tom's accessory finder suggestion. Recently I walked along a section of unused old highway to a collapsed tunnel with the 50mm lens on my M2, and then walked back with the 75mm lens and CV finder, and took similar pictures both ways. There is definitely a significant difference in angle of view, but not as much as I'd earlier thought; the back-to-back usage was instructive. And the CV 75mm finder is very nice...

 

[sockeyed]

Telenous - as you know, I recently tried the Summicron-75 (I posted a couple of shots on Flickr HERE. Wow, what a lens. I'm used to excellent Voigtlander glass, and I have tried quite a few Leitz and Zeiss lenses, but this lens made my jaw drop.

But I'm not a big fan of using 75mm lenses on my M6 for the reason you mentioned - the framelines are squished into the 50 framelines, and I often forget to frame with them, using the 50s instead.

What I really like, however, is using the 75mm framelines on my R3A as they sit alone in the frame. Tom Abrahamsson also told me that he finds it easier to focus his 75/1.4 Summilux on this R3A than on his Leicas, despite the smaller RF base. If you're thinking of investing the money in this lens, perhaps consider picking up an R3A or R3M?

cheers
Ben

 

[Ben Z]

there are pictures of the framelines in the finder in the *.pdf files available at leica's web page (MP_Instructions_en.pdf, pages 78, 79, 88 and 89).

does this help?

regards,
sebastian

The 50mm framelines in the M2 (and M4 and M4-2) are larger (maybe like 10%) than the 50mm framelines in the M4-P and M6 and newer, so you may need to leave a bit more distance when mentally imagining the 75mm framing.

 

[steve garza]

The 75mm frames are a little tough to use....

The 75mm frames are a little tough to use....

I need some advice from owners of M cameras which include the 75 frameline (M4 onwards). I am thinking of buying the Summicron 75 but the lens is so very expensive that it makes prohibitive for the time being the replacement of one of my M2, M3 with an M6. I was thinking that I may be able to use the lens with the 50 framelines especially if they are really close to the 75 ones. I 've heard some users say that they forget to use the 75 lines because they are indeed quite close to the 50's but I have no idea if this is slightly exaggerated or not. An alternative would be to use the 90 framelines on my M3, they are quite spaceous and if I could allow for some extra room when using the 75. So, anyway, my question is how close are the 50/75 framelines? Thanks very much in advance,

in the begining, but you should get used to it pretty quickly. I use the .85 TTL and a 75 'lux so the lens/hood protrudes into the VF in a quite pronounced way, and I believe it comes in past the 50mm frame. I remembered something that someone here wrote. Use the hood protrusion to remind one's self to use the smaller frameline. It works like a charm. I know the 'cron is a smaller lens so you may not have the option. I considered purchasing and M3 and having the VF modified to project a 75 frame (I think that a wonderful option). You can also consider having the 50mm frame on an M6 removed if you really need. The 75 'lux is also a wonderful lens and can be had used for less than 1/2 the price of a new 'cron. I'm interested to see what your final decision will be and how it works for you.