The 90mm Summicron

dcsang

dcsang

Canadian & Not A Dentist
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I know a number of forum members have this lens (either the APO ASPH or the pre-ASPH) and I have a few questions about the lens:

  1. How difficult is it to focus this lens? (i.e. do you find that, @ f2, the focus is tough to nail?)
  2. Is the APO ASPH version a bit "too sharp"? (I've been told that a Version III is what I should look for but I'm not avers to the APSH version)
  3. General handling: how long is the throw from minimal to infinity? (usage will be for weddings.. so I've got to be able to focus reasonably quickly)

Any other comments would be welcome on this as well.

Thank you,
Cheers,
Dave
 
Compared to my Noctilux, focusing is easier and faster. A 1.25x Magnifier (for a 0.72x VF Leica) is VERY helpful but not really necessary. I have the vs.3, latest pre-ASPH (E55) and prefer it a lot over the two Elmarit-M 90/2.8 and also Tele-Elmarit (thin) that I had before.
 
I just looked at my pre-asph v3, Dave, focus throw is exactly 180 degrees.

You've used the 75/1.4. As a rule of thumb, the 90/2 from 1m to infinity, wide open DOF at min. focus, throw, etc., behaves just like the 75/1.4 from 0.7m to infinity. Except the 90 is significantly smaller.

Roland.
 
Gabor, Roland,

Thanks for that - makes me consider this lens a lot more now because of your comments.

I've been mulling either the 90 or 75 'cron - as much as I loved (and hate myself for selling) the 75 lux, I think it was, at times, difficult to "handle" effectively in a wedding situation.

I have considered the new summarits as well but I don't know if I can become a fan of the 'slower' (respectively) lenses.

Cheers,
Dave
 
Dave, wasn't it you that said something like "if its difficult to handle wide open, just stop down ..."?

I'm not convinced about the Summarits since they are so expensive when compared to, say, Heliar 75/2.5, M-Hexanon 90/2.8 or even Elmarit-M 90/2.8, all great lenses at half price or less.

I would imagine speed to be more important than anything, in-doors, at a wedding, no ?

If you do go for another M7, the 75 cron might be an excellent choice. Focusing down to 0.7m, too.
 
ferider said:
Dave, wasn't it you that said something like "if its difficult to handle wide open, just stop down ..."?

I'm not convinced about the Summarits since they are so expensive when compared to, say, Heliar 75/2.5, M-Hexanon 90/2.8 or even Elmarit-M 90/2.8, all great lenses at half price or less.

I would imagine speed to be more important than anything, in-doors, at a wedding, no ?

If you do go for another M7, the 75 cron might be an excellent choice. Focusing down to 0.7m, too.
Click to expand...

I hope I didn't say that.. if I did.. I want a retraction and pronto !! :D

Thanks for the input re: summarits.

Another M7 (0.85) is in the works I think. The 75 'cron will be considered - I would think, based on what I've always believed, that if a lens is made properly and it's made well, then it's meant to be shot at it's widest aperture.

I think stopping down a 75 lux (all the time mind you) is heresy :D but I do understand there are times when one does want more depth to a photo and less isolation.

Cheers,
Dave
 
Personally, if you are shooting film, I don't find lenses being too sharp to be a problem. For example, I use the 50 ASPH all the time for people pictures and no one ever complains. But then Tri-X isn't the sharpest film known to man.
 
One thing I've always wanted is seeing exactly the same shot with a still subject using v2, v3 and latest 90 summicrons wide open to see bokeh differences...

The two times I saw that bokeh I fell in love with, it was v2, so when I found it was cheap for being huge, heavy and made in Canada, I bought it. I guess the new version has real different bokeh, but I wonder about v3... It's noticeably different in size and has a different optical design too, so it must be different some way in its bokeh rendering too...

Cheers,

Juan
 
I find the 90 both "crisp" and easy to use. Crisp relative to a Tele-Elmar that is.

yours
FPJ
 
ferider said:
If you do go for another M7, the 75 cron might be an excellent choice. Focusing down to 0.7m, too.
Click to expand...

I think it also depends on what kind of distance and rapport you want to enjoy with your subjects. It was for this reason that the 75 FL finally appealed to me more than either 50 or 90 for portraits. Actually, 135 is also very good, too, but there are obvious disadvantages to 135 in the RF format (size of lens, speed). A 75 with close focusing ability gives enormous latitude to get in real close to people with whom you are talking face-to-face, while also leaving room for maintaining a little distance.

And finally it was the close focus ability and easy ergonomics of the cron 75 which made it, in the 75 range, the right lens for me--even without a film camera with 75 frames. If I could have lived with 1m focusing and f/2.5, the CV 75 would have been all I ever needed. The 'lux on the other hand was just big and clumsy enough (long throw and VF blockage) to know it would become one of those prized lenses that remains at home more often than not. I admit there have been occasions when f/1.4 would have been nice (don't know if I could master focusing though).

75 cron has a smoothness that I never find too sharp on the people I photograph, while also bringing an excellent aura of clarity wide open.
 
90 per ASPH and ASPH go a touch soft less than 6 feet. Leica stated this in their literature in 1980`s and I keep mine for exactly this use. Stopping down does not improve the image. Please keep in mind, not mushy soft, but just enough to make portraits pleasent.

If you do not want this, then 90 2.8 Elmarit with removeable head is what you want or the Summicron with removeable head. 2.8 is first choice. Tele-Elmarit thin version also goes soft up close. I keep mine for a travel lens, although it has been suplanted by the 90 4.0 new version. This lens is very sharp close and far.
 
I have both ASPH 75 and 90 mm lense and a pair of 0.85 M7's. I use the M7's with Motor M's for weddings along with SF24D and a Metz handle unit for a 21mm ASPH setup.
What I think you are referring to is not the focus as the cameras focus's exactly the same with any lens, but the ability to acieve correct focus on film. As we all know, the longer the lens the less the acceptable focus at the same aperature, so if one focuses on the eye of a person, the 90mm shot will have a shorter DOF than the 75mm lens. This is translated by most individuals as the lens is difficult to focus when in reality there is no difference in focusing as the rangefinder system could care less what lens is mounted on the camera. A magnifier will not help and I don't use them. For portrats I use the 75 ASPH for weddings as it has a greater DOF but for shots from the side of the church of the bride/groom and wedding party at the alter, its the 90mm ASPH for a tighter composition. In addition I use 35mm Lux ASPH for most flash shots and a 21mm ASPH for wide angle shots.
In terms of sharpness, I don't know of a lens that's too sharp to use.
In terms of ease of focus range, its not something I dwell on, as its a piece of equipment that serves a need.
I also have a beautiful chrome 90mm Leitz cron that is longer and heavier but from my informal testing with the 90mm ASPH, I couldn't tell the difference using K64 under 5x magnification.
Good luck with your decision!-Dick
 
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I use the 1.25x finder on the M8 with mine. Not hard to focus.

Closest Focus, Wide-Open.

picture.php
 
I am likely not qualified, to give comments about the lens as of yet, as I just got a mint latest pre-ASPH and used it for just a few hours.

I was preserved towards practicability and focussing before handling one.
During the first minutes, I thought the rather heavily damped focussing is an issue with very fine corrections, necessary.

I was veery wrong!

The lens is absolutely bliss to operate quickly!
The focus throw indeed is longer than with the Elmarit-M, which I also use.

To my surprise, the Cron does not give less keepers @ f2, than the Elmarit-M wide open !
The focussing is just about perfect for very quick and precise fine adjustment, but very damped and slow for fast action with people moving quickly across the field.

The lens is as short/ long, as the 90 Elmarit-M.
It is more damped and has a longer throw.

The diameter is bigger, which makes the handling better for my hands.
It is slightly heavier, but balances perfectly with the M8.2 (not "nose heavy").

Be careful with jumping on this lens for color work wide open though, as it is loaded with purple haze!

I use it for B&W only.

My first shots can be found on my site here.
 
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