JonasYip
Well-known
Well, my long out-of-warranty R-D1 which has thus far been trouble free has suddenly failed.... the shutter no longer works. Since it's out of warranty, and since it seems to be a mechanical thing, I contacted DAG, but he said that Epson won't provide him with repair info so all he can do at this point is adjust the rangefinder.
So I called Epson's R-D1 support number. They said that I had to go to one of their repair centers, which turns out to be a general-purpose electronics repair place. Needless to say, they've never heard of the R-D1. So they contact the people that actually repair Epson (consumer) cameras for them, and *they've* never heard of the R-D1. The repair place said they'll contact their Epson rep to see what to do... but in the meantime I don't particularly have confidence that this is going to get fixed any time soon.
Anybody have any recommendations on other routes to pursue? Or anyone with previous Epson experience have an Epson contact who knows what to do, or who at least has *heard* of an R-D1?
not encouraging so far....
j
So I called Epson's R-D1 support number. They said that I had to go to one of their repair centers, which turns out to be a general-purpose electronics repair place. Needless to say, they've never heard of the R-D1. So they contact the people that actually repair Epson (consumer) cameras for them, and *they've* never heard of the R-D1. The repair place said they'll contact their Epson rep to see what to do... but in the meantime I don't particularly have confidence that this is going to get fixed any time soon.
Anybody have any recommendations on other routes to pursue? Or anyone with previous Epson experience have an Epson contact who knows what to do, or who at least has *heard* of an R-D1?
not encouraging so far....
j
newyorkone
Established
Hope things works out for you. Keep us posted. Take care.
saxshooter
Well-known
Sorry that it had to be you! Approximately how many shutter actuations before this happened? Mine went kaput at 13,000 but it was under warranty. Please keep us all posted.
JonasYip
Well-known
saxshooter said:
I think I'm only at around 4000.
Can I ask what the symptoms of your failure were? In my case it seems that the front curtain won't stay down. I'll cock the shutter, and the front curtain goes down, but then as the lever is returning it pops back up. And then if I power-cycle the camera, it lets me cock the shutter again (with no shutter press in between). Very odd...
j
Plasmat
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This is a repost of an earlier post of mine. I suggest we all as a group petition Seiko Epson Japan and voice our collective displeasure. They WILL listen if we make noise, it's worked in the past. I would help coordinate. My wife is Japanese and writing and emailing them in Japanese is very effective. I've been through this with another R-D1. I tried everything. NO ONE in North America can fix it. No matter what they claim, they have NO technical knowledge of the camera:
In one of my somewhat futile conversations with an Epson technician here in USA, one of them did do me the favor of consulting a database of troubleshooting problems that was only available from the Japanese Epson parent company.
He told me that there was a USB port, covered by the leather skin of the camera, that was a diagnostic port to the innards of the camera, and that using said port, there was Japanese-only software for making corrections to exposure metering, shutter speeds, major needle alignment, and other problems.
However, and this is the rub, nobody outside of Japan had access to this software or knew how to use it, and secondly it was only in Japanese. Apparently, there are some near mythical Japanese technicians hidden in the bowels of Epson Japan who can toy with the camera.
I think it's shameful for Epson to orphan the users of it's flagship $3000 digital camera.
Maybe continued emails and letters to the higher execs of Epson Japan could get some action on our behalf.
As I said before, the Epson staff in North America is utterly and completely clueless about this camera. It cannot be repaired or aligned here by anyone.
http://www.epsonrd1.co.uk/testimonial/isao.html
Isao Edatsune is the actual project manager and "father" of the R-D1. Let's get his email address and deluge him with requests for help!!!
Let's find his corporate email address!!
(I think if Epson R-D1 owners put up even a fraction of the stink raised by the Leica M8 crybabies, we might actually get some results from Epson Japan. The last thing they want is bad publicity by disgruntled customers. It really IS shameful the way they have orphaned the buyers of this expensive product)
In one of my somewhat futile conversations with an Epson technician here in USA, one of them did do me the favor of consulting a database of troubleshooting problems that was only available from the Japanese Epson parent company.
He told me that there was a USB port, covered by the leather skin of the camera, that was a diagnostic port to the innards of the camera, and that using said port, there was Japanese-only software for making corrections to exposure metering, shutter speeds, major needle alignment, and other problems.
However, and this is the rub, nobody outside of Japan had access to this software or knew how to use it, and secondly it was only in Japanese. Apparently, there are some near mythical Japanese technicians hidden in the bowels of Epson Japan who can toy with the camera.
I think it's shameful for Epson to orphan the users of it's flagship $3000 digital camera.
Maybe continued emails and letters to the higher execs of Epson Japan could get some action on our behalf.
As I said before, the Epson staff in North America is utterly and completely clueless about this camera. It cannot be repaired or aligned here by anyone.
http://www.epsonrd1.co.uk/testimonial/isao.html
Isao Edatsune is the actual project manager and "father" of the R-D1. Let's get his email address and deluge him with requests for help!!!
Let's find his corporate email address!!
(I think if Epson R-D1 owners put up even a fraction of the stink raised by the Leica M8 crybabies, we might actually get some results from Epson Japan. The last thing they want is bad publicity by disgruntled customers. It really IS shameful the way they have orphaned the buyers of this expensive product)
Plasmat
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PS: I am not condoning this sneaky remedy, BUT, if someone were to wait for the refurbs to go back on sale, buy one with a year's warranty, then SWAP the flash shoes on the cameras (with serial number on the flash shoe) so that the old camera is now the "new" one, you'd be able to send it to Epson for a new camera.
But I don't believe anyone would really try that, do you?
But I don't believe anyone would really try that, do you?
Topdog1
Well-known
How about contacing Cosina for repair information? If it's a Bessa body, it shouldn't be too hard to fix mechanical problems. Also, try Essex Camera repair. They are rangefinder specialists and seem to be able to repair almost any camera.
http://www.essexcamera.com/
Regards,
Ira
http://www.essexcamera.com/
Regards,
Ira
Bob Parsons
Established
On products such as cameras quite often the serial number is also written in ink somewhere on the castings internal to the camera.
Bob.
Bob.
Plasmat
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I don't think anyone at Epson even examines them carefully, no less dismantles them to look for something written on an internal casting. There's no serial number record in the firmware.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Plasmat: Disclosure: I am not an R-D1 owner. I agree with your intent. I do think the "continued emails" strategy has the potential of being counter-productive depending on what "continued" means. I admit that's a matter of disagree on, so take that for what it's worth.
However, well-written letters sent to executives with proof of delivery and signatures is a very good strategy, again IMO.
If that does not result in positive action, then I think some letters to Japanese media outlets, maybe even apperances on Japanese TV, etc., would be the next step.
To me, it doesn't matter if the R-D1 is an infinitesimal, "non-important" portion of their business. They asked customers to spend $3000USD retail for a camera that they describe as a professional tool. Combine that with their public statement concerning customer satisfaction and their corporate mission statement, and there is no excuse.
However, well-written letters sent to executives with proof of delivery and signatures is a very good strategy, again IMO.
If that does not result in positive action, then I think some letters to Japanese media outlets, maybe even apperances on Japanese TV, etc., would be the next step.
To me, it doesn't matter if the R-D1 is an infinitesimal, "non-important" portion of their business. They asked customers to spend $3000USD retail for a camera that they describe as a professional tool. Combine that with their public statement concerning customer satisfaction and their corporate mission statement, and there is no excuse.
Plasmat
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I won't go into the details, but in my case a serious problem I had with an R-D1 was resolved in my favor immediately, after FedExing a letter (in Japanese) to the President of Epson.
Much more effective than email. I received a hand written letter of apology and my problem was resolved the next day.
This expensive camera is treated as an orphan product, even though it's still being sold new.
Either through careless neglect, confusion or deliberate "looking the other way", it is a very high priced item that is sold with no support by any trained staff.
It's shameful, and it's too bad, because when working properly, this is one of the best cameras I've ever owned.
It would be easy for Epson to set up some sort of central service center, even in Japan, where the camera could be fixed.
At the VERY LEAST, an English language version of the diagnostic/service program should be distributed free of charge to repair centers or end users who would want to fix their machines.
Much more effective than email. I received a hand written letter of apology and my problem was resolved the next day.
This expensive camera is treated as an orphan product, even though it's still being sold new.
Either through careless neglect, confusion or deliberate "looking the other way", it is a very high priced item that is sold with no support by any trained staff.
It's shameful, and it's too bad, because when working properly, this is one of the best cameras I've ever owned.
It would be easy for Epson to set up some sort of central service center, even in Japan, where the camera could be fixed.
At the VERY LEAST, an English language version of the diagnostic/service program should be distributed free of charge to repair centers or end users who would want to fix their machines.
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Topdog1
Well-known
Here is a quote from the R-D1 product announcement:
"Epson is committed to the world of photography and has helped transform digital photo printing by developing ink jet printers and other digital photo printing technologies," said Philip Amato, product manager, Epson. "With the EPSON R-D1 we aimed to combine all that defines classic rangefinder photography with today's leading edge digital technology. Photographers can now experience a state-of-the-art digital camera with all of the advantages of a rangefinder camera."
I would contact Phil Amato, the product manager, and see if he can help. The least they can do is make repair information available. The higher up you go the more likely you will just be pissing up a rope. It's clear Epson has abandoned this product and just doesn't care anymore.
I sure hope I just didn't throw $1800 out the window. I coulda almost had an MP for that!
Regards,
Ira
"Epson is committed to the world of photography and has helped transform digital photo printing by developing ink jet printers and other digital photo printing technologies," said Philip Amato, product manager, Epson. "With the EPSON R-D1 we aimed to combine all that defines classic rangefinder photography with today's leading edge digital technology. Photographers can now experience a state-of-the-art digital camera with all of the advantages of a rangefinder camera."
I would contact Phil Amato, the product manager, and see if he can help. The least they can do is make repair information available. The higher up you go the more likely you will just be pissing up a rope. It's clear Epson has abandoned this product and just doesn't care anymore.
I sure hope I just didn't throw $1800 out the window. I coulda almost had an MP for that!
Regards,
Ira
Plasmat
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Or even better yet, start a website AND online petition and call it to the attention of top Epson brass.
FIX-OUR-THREE-THOUSAND-DOLLAR-EPSON-RD1.COM
Alert the camera and electronic gadget media, send out press releases. APPLE computer was shamed into replacing the faulty batteries of the early iPods with a grass-roots complaint website. It was all over the news.
FIX-OUR-THREE-THOUSAND-DOLLAR-EPSON-RD1.COM
Alert the camera and electronic gadget media, send out press releases. APPLE computer was shamed into replacing the faulty batteries of the early iPods with a grass-roots complaint website. It was all over the news.
JonasYip
Well-known
Well, Plasmat's post regarding his previous experience is not encouraging. Guess I know what I'm in for now...
I'm all for contacting higher-ups to let the problems be known and potentially resolved. Perhaps I'll try the letter-directly-to-the-top method too, if that's what it takes. Of course, I'll have to figure out the "in Japanese" part.
I've actually been monitoring the refurb page to see when more pop up. But I was doing that *before* my camera failed just because I was thinking, "Hmm, maybe a backup wouldn't be a bad idea"
I'll also try other repair places that others have mentioned...
j
I'm all for contacting higher-ups to let the problems be known and potentially resolved. Perhaps I'll try the letter-directly-to-the-top method too, if that's what it takes. Of course, I'll have to figure out the "in Japanese" part.
I've actually been monitoring the refurb page to see when more pop up. But I was doing that *before* my camera failed just because I was thinking, "Hmm, maybe a backup wouldn't be a bad idea"
I'll also try other repair places that others have mentioned...
j
Topdog1
Well-known
The traditional name for these protest sites would be www.epsonsucks.com, but that is a parked domain. However other similar names, like epsonsucks.info or .us are still available. Anyone want to buy one of these to get the ball rolling? It would be great to SEO it so it comes out on top for organic results on the search term "epson cameras". LOL!LOL!LOL!
/Ira
/Ira
Plasmat
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"epsonsucks" is a little harsh. I don't want to come off as juvenile cranks or nuts.
We should sound like monied, sincere, badly wronged consumers of a high end Epson prestige product who were left high and dry. Not hostile to Epson, just seeking correct treatment, as befits a huge Japanese consumer-oriented conglomerate.
I see the goals of such a website as follows:
1) Free in or out of warranty repair of faulty rangefinder mechanisms, many of which came misaligned from the factory and were never properly set up. This would include a hardware fix.
2) Establishment of a procedure where spare parts, service, and knowledgable repair persons would be available to work on existing base of cameras. Spare parts, technical database,, and diagnostic software would be made available. Perhaps a website for this purpose. Even a small repair center in Japan, Europe or USA would be acceptable.
3) Distribution of diagnostic software, parts, and technical manuals to qualified repair independents, such as DAG.
This would go a long way to fixing the problems, and would be no great financial burdern on Epson.
We should sound like monied, sincere, badly wronged consumers of a high end Epson prestige product who were left high and dry. Not hostile to Epson, just seeking correct treatment, as befits a huge Japanese consumer-oriented conglomerate.
I see the goals of such a website as follows:
1) Free in or out of warranty repair of faulty rangefinder mechanisms, many of which came misaligned from the factory and were never properly set up. This would include a hardware fix.
2) Establishment of a procedure where spare parts, service, and knowledgable repair persons would be available to work on existing base of cameras. Spare parts, technical database,, and diagnostic software would be made available. Perhaps a website for this purpose. Even a small repair center in Japan, Europe or USA would be acceptable.
3) Distribution of diagnostic software, parts, and technical manuals to qualified repair independents, such as DAG.
This would go a long way to fixing the problems, and would be no great financial burdern on Epson.
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Topdog1
Well-known
Wait 'til your R-D1 breaks. Yoiu'll change your mind. 
Whatever it is, it needs to be short, pithy and catchy. Something with an edge to get media attention would be good, too.
/Ira
Whatever it is, it needs to be short, pithy and catchy. Something with an edge to get media attention would be good, too.
/Ira
John Robertson
Well-known
I have found Epsons after-sales service for printers in UK absolutely useless, so I would imagine their knowledge of the RD - 1 camera would be "nil" !!!
I won't ever buy another Epson printer after my experiences.
I won't ever buy another Epson printer after my experiences.
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Topdog1
Well-known
If you look at most of Epson's consumer products, they are basically disposable. Use a few years, maybe it breaks, throw away, buy a new one. Of course, that product cycle doesn't work too well for a $3K (list price) camera. But it probably means that Epson has little ability to service any product. They just throw them away and start over. R-D1 service at Epson is probably the rule, not the exception. You just noticed because a $2K-$3K product is too expensive to throw away. Welcome to the world of digital product life cycles. If you think you're having problems now, just wait a few years when Epson won't even be able to spell "R-D1". When they break you will throw them away. You'll have no choice. But that is basically what you sign up for when you buy any digital product these days.
Yes, $1800 or so dollars is alot to spend for a camera, but that's probably less than you spend for a good PC to process your photos. And what is that PC's life expectancy? If you get 4 years out of it, you are doing real well. Probably more like 3. And when you are done with it, do you repair it? Do you upgrade it? Or do you just retire it? Your expectations are set for the mechanical rangefinder era. You need to reset them for the digital era.
None of this is meant to excuswe Epson for the terrible service they have provided for the R-D1. But they should have known better. It's just not a product that's up their alley.
/Ira
Yes, $1800 or so dollars is alot to spend for a camera, but that's probably less than you spend for a good PC to process your photos. And what is that PC's life expectancy? If you get 4 years out of it, you are doing real well. Probably more like 3. And when you are done with it, do you repair it? Do you upgrade it? Or do you just retire it? Your expectations are set for the mechanical rangefinder era. You need to reset them for the digital era.
None of this is meant to excuswe Epson for the terrible service they have provided for the R-D1. But they should have known better. It's just not a product that's up their alley.
/Ira
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Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Go to the top
Go to the top
I strongly disagree. First of all, a product manager may not have the clout one would expect. I work for mid-sized but significant tech company, and I know that product managers don't always have as much influence as one would hope.
Second, the CEO or chairman of a company, in the vast majority of cases, cares about company's reputation. The know that brand recognition and reputation are platinum assets. One or two letters that result in direct intervention to resolve a problem may be regarded as one-offs, but if that becomes anything more than a few, there will be a lot of questions asked by the CEO. And when the CEO starts asking hard questions of his executives and managers, things happen. Within a company the size of Epson, getting the piss to run downhill is going to be a lot more effective than standing at the bottom of the rope and pissing up.
I hope your camera will be fine, Ira (and all others who have ordered or who will order), and I hope we don't take our angst and spin the situation into something it isn't. But it is pretty clear that Epson has a problem with supporting the R-D1.
Go to the top
Topdog1 said:
I strongly disagree. First of all, a product manager may not have the clout one would expect. I work for mid-sized but significant tech company, and I know that product managers don't always have as much influence as one would hope.
Second, the CEO or chairman of a company, in the vast majority of cases, cares about company's reputation. The know that brand recognition and reputation are platinum assets. One or two letters that result in direct intervention to resolve a problem may be regarded as one-offs, but if that becomes anything more than a few, there will be a lot of questions asked by the CEO. And when the CEO starts asking hard questions of his executives and managers, things happen. Within a company the size of Epson, getting the piss to run downhill is going to be a lot more effective than standing at the bottom of the rope and pissing up.
I hope your camera will be fine, Ira (and all others who have ordered or who will order), and I hope we don't take our angst and spin the situation into something it isn't. But it is pretty clear that Epson has a problem with supporting the R-D1.