The Answer to Nazi Zorkis and FEDs!

My answer to the Nazi'd FEDs and Zorkis is simple: I don't buy them for any reason. What's difficult to understand is why people as talented as many of them seem to be don't learn how to overhaul those cameras and give the world a great-working Leica clone.

Someone must be buying them though as they keep turning them out. What a waste..... IMO.

Walker
 
I considered getting a Leica II copy [no symbols just a clean fake] in chrome but then realized that I could get an original "fixer" for not much more.....

Joseph
 
doubs43 said:
My answer to the Nazi'd FEDs and Zorkis is simple: I don't buy them for any reason. What's difficult to understand is why people as talented as many of them seem to be don't learn how to overhaul those cameras and give the world a great-working Leica clone.

Someone must be buying them though as they keep turning them out. What a waste..... IMO.

Walker
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Walker, I so agree - I hate all the fakes and my comment was supposed to be ironic. You touch on a problem that really troubles me - who the hell does buy the Nazified junk? No-one here for sure - and as far as I'm aware, the collectors of such stuff are obsessed with "authenticity". Silly taboo-breaking teens with no taste? Malign idiots? Heaven only knows.

And then there's the obvious historical irony. The people behind these cameras are clearly no fools - how do they feel making Nazi memorabilia given what happened in the USSR? It reminds me of that weird Russian political party which uses the Nazi flag, but with the swastika replaced by a black hammer and sickle. Just incomprehensible
 
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What is really saddest IMO is that former Soviet citizens of all people would turn to making nazified cameras. The sword of the 3rd Reich was blunted with the flesh of the Soviet people more than any other.
 
Jocko said:
- who the hell does buy the Nazified junk? No-one here for sure - ...
And then there's the obvious historical irony. The people behind these cameras are clearly no fools - how do they feel making Nazi memorabilia given what happened in the USSR? It reminds me of that weird Russian political party which uses the Nazi flag, but with the swastika replaced by a black hammer and sickle. Just incomprehensible
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As hard as it is for many of us, there ARE out there, around the corner, Nazi symphatizers, latent racists, and all the scum you can and cannot imagine. The point is that they do not see themselves as we see them, and we do not see what they "see". Hitler was not the enerved cannibal protrayed in the films, but a very clever, able, educated, and cultural man. And a mass killer as well.

It seems to me that Henry Cartier Bresson said once, that the only thing photographers have in common is that they all stand behind a camera.

Rgds,
Ruben
 
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Jocko said:
Walker, I so agree - I hate all the fakes and my comment was supposed to be ironic. You touch on a problem that really troubles me - who the hell does buy the Nazified junk? No-one here for sure - and as far as I'm aware, the collectors of such stuff are obsessed with "authenticity". Silly taboo-breaking teens with no taste? Malign idiots? Heaven only knows.

And then there's the obvious historical irony. The people behind these cameras are clearly no fools - how do they feel making Nazi memorabilia given what happened in the USSR? It reminds me of that weird Russian political party which uses the Nazi flag, but with the swastika replaced by a black hammer and sickle. Just incomprehensible
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I'm afraid that the youth of today, untouched by the horrors of a distant war, don't give much thought to the implications of the symbols.

I simply hate to see so many otherwise nice cameras desecrated when they could be restored to perfect working condition. I seriously doubt that the altered cameras are CLA'd. All of the effort, I fear, is on the visual and not the working parts.

Only about a week ago I sent a message to a seller who had a FED redone as a Leica and painted green. He said it "might" be a copy! I told him it WAS a fake and explained why. No reply and no correction of his ad. He KNEW it was a fake and covered himself by saying it "might" be a copy. No one bought it.

Walker

Walker
 
ruben said:
. Hitler was not the enerved cannibal protrayed in the films, but a very clever, able, educated, and cultural man. And a mass killer as well.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right - I know this is OT, but I strongly recommend "Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics" by Frederic Spotts, a sure cure for the carpet-chewing house-painter theory. At risk of upsetting the Leica people, I've always felt a little troubled by the fact that the Nazis promoted that camera (and the Contax) as photographic embodiments of the National Socialist ethos. I studied propaganda and amassed quite a collection in the course of research. Perhaps the most perverse items are English language magazines produced by the Germans and circulated amongst Allied POWS in an attempt to recruit sympathizers. These invariably feature "advertisments" for the cameras - the photographic carrot beside the SS stick.

I have no illusions about the Soviet Union, but I feel a lot happier with a FED.
 
Guys! Please understand one thing: for Russians, who remake the original Zorkis and FEDs to look them like Nazi Leicas, it is one of the way to earn money on "exotic things", which are bought by foreign tourists only. I don't know any Russians, who uses (or even buys) these Nazi-look fakes. These cameras are like "matreshkas" - an export product.
 
Jocko said:
Absolutely right - I know this is OT, but I strongly recommend "Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics" by Frederic Spotts, a sure cure for the carpet-chewing house-painter theory. At risk of upsetting the Leica people, I've always felt a little troubled by the fact that the Nazis promoted that camera (and the Contax) as photographic embodiments of the National Socialist ethos. I studied propaganda and amassed quite a collection in the course of research. Perhaps the most perverse items are English language magazines produced by the Germans and circulated amongst Allied POWS in an attempt to recruit sympathizers. These invariably feature "advertisments" for the cameras - the photographic carrot beside the SS stick.

I have no illusions about the Soviet Union, but I feel a lot happier with a FED.
Click to expand...


I've seen one of those magazines- "Signal", about a decade ago. They seemed so innocuous then, looking just like any old magazine from the 1940s. Stories about the front, heroic soldier photos, R&R in Kurstfurtendam (?), Agfacolor spreads of jolly German children and women....etc. There was an ad there, with copy in German (magazine was in English) for Agfa film. It had an illustration of a German soldier clutching some snapshots from home. I vaguely remember the ad read like, '...aus dem Heimat'.... or something to that effect.

Agfa had been part of IG Farben, that giant chemical corporation whose products included "Zyklon-B". It's worth imagining how much (or if none) Leitz or Zeiss or the other camera companies got involved with the Nazis or the Nazi war effort.


Jay
 
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doubs43 said:
I simply hate to see so many otherwise nice cameras desecrated when they could be restored to perfect working condition. I seriously doubt that the altered cameras are CLA'd. All of the effort, I fear, is on the visual and not the working parts.

Only about a week ago I sent a message to a seller who had a FED redone as a Leica and painted green. He said it "might" be a copy! I told him it WAS a fake and explained why. No reply and no correction of his ad. He KNEW it was a fake and covered himself by saying it "might" be a copy. No one bought it.

Walker

Walker
Click to expand...


I would imagine that most of the Nazified or Leitzified FED or Zorki had been the shabby looking ones. Rather than toss the camera(s- one 'good' Nazi Leica could have been a Zorkinstein of sorts with parts from several cameras ) into the parts heap, their scratched and peeled surfaces are ground, reengraved and repainted as Leicas or Nazi Leicas.

Some of the fakes are well done, and really work. I've three of these fake Leicas so far, and only one works well. One has red curtain blinds, and works perfectly, but cannot shoot because the blinds aren't opaque. Seller emphasised this fact when he was selling it- and I bought it 😛

One golden Leitz (all Nazi markings, but no "Leica" engraved on the camera) had once been a chrome Zorki 1d. Its exposed brass underskin turned grey in a matter of days of exposure to tropical climate. It now works after adjusting almost everything from the winding knob to the shims of the lens mount.

Most of these make-overs are best left for display. One looking for a shooter should stay clear of these. Its indeed a shame that good Zorki or FED- even when they're cosmetically poor- should be treated this way.

Jay
 
Evgeny S said:
Guys! Please understand one thing: for Russians, who remake the original Zorkis and FEDs to look them like Nazi Leicas, it is one of the way to earn money on "exotic things", which are bought by foreign tourists only. I don't know any Russians, who uses (or even buys) these Nazi-look fakes. These cameras are like "matreshkas" - an export product.
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No doubt these are export products but why not with Soviet engravings? Why not a special FED-2 Laika edition, or a Soyuz edition, or a Youth Festival 1954 edition, or a 50th anniversary of the Soviet Union? Those would be much more appreciated and realistic if you ask me.
 
Evgeny S said:
Guys! Please understand one thing: for Russians, who remake the original Zorkis and FEDs to look them like Nazi Leicas, it is one of the way to earn money on "exotic things", which are bought by foreign tourists only. I don't know any Russians, who uses (or even buys) these Nazi-look fakes. These cameras are like "matreshkas" - an export product.
Click to expand...

This is obvious Evgeny, but I still believe many FSU sellers will not accept selling this type of cameras. Those who do - to my black list. I would not buy any candy from a grocery selling drugs as well. They may be uncouncious of what they do, but have to be, and act accordingly. These sellers do not deserve understanding, but boicot. The fight against Nazism, in the broad sense, didn't started with Germany, nor ended by WW2.

Regards,
Ruben
 
ZorkiKat said:
I've seen one of those magazines- "Signal", about a decade ago. They seemed so innocuous then, looking just like any old magazine from the 1940s. Stories about the front, heroic soldier photos, R&R in Kurstfurtendam (?), Agfacolor spreads of jolly German children and women....etc. There was an ad there, with copy in German (magazine was in English) for Agfa film. It had an illustration of a German soldier clutching some snapshots from home. I vaguely remember the ad read like, '...aus dem Heimat'.... or something to that effect.

Agfa had been part of IG Farben, that giant chemical corporation whose products included "Zyklon-B". It's worth imagining how much (or if none) Leitz or Zeiss or the other camera companies got involved with the Nazis or the Nazi war effort.


Jay
Click to expand...

I've had an interest in this off and on - my Leica IIIa was made in 1938 and is therefore a relic of the time when the Nazi dictatorship was really warming up to some of its most evil and despicable acts. In that time, no German organisation could escape being compromised by the Nazis and yet Leica seems to have come through very innocently (or am I just ignorant?) Does anyone have a historical source for Leica in the period 1933 to 45 that deals with the political and social issues?
 
lushd said:
I've had an interest in this off and on - my Leica IIIa was made in 1938 and is therefore a relic of the time when the Nazi dictatorship was really warming up to some of its most evil and despicable acts. In that time, no German organisation could escape being compromised by the Nazis and yet Leica seems to have come through very innocently (or am I just ignorant?) Does anyone have a historical source for Leica in the period 1933 to 45 that deals with the political and social issues?
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that the Leitz family was very sympathetic to Jews especially their employees and even stationed some of them to foreign offices i.e.Leitz NY just to avoid Nazi persecution.

BTW, I also have a IIIa, from '37 🙂

Joseph
 
lushd said:
I've had an interest in this off and on - my Leica IIIa was made in 1938 and is therefore a relic of the time when the Nazi dictatorship was really warming up to some of its most evil and despicable acts. In that time, no German organisation could escape being compromised by the Nazis and yet Leica seems to have come through very innocently (or am I just ignorant?) Does anyone have a historical source for Leica in the period 1933 to 45 that deals with the political and social issues?
Click to expand...

I've a Leica IIIc (the only Leica which I've thoroughly taken apart and repaired) which dates from around 1943/44. Its serial number is just several numbers away from those famed "K" Luftwaffes with red shutters. It has the characteristics of the 'old' IIIc - raised platform under rewind switch, etc. I got it almost stripped: torn and flaked shutters, no vulcanite and really bad. Put red shutters (opaque, which I made myself) and dressed it in real pigskin. When I was restoring it, I couldn't help but think about who made it, and about the times when it was being made. Its finish also reflected the times then- poor nickel/chrome finish since all the good stuff went into bullets and guns.

Camera is in good shape now and shoots good. But has it been exorcised of any bad vibes which it may possibly still carry????
 
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