OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
One of the hardest things I find to do is the editing of my photographs. Beyond the obvious duffers and missed moments I often struggle to 'let go' of an image when I can see the kernel of what I was after but I'm not convinced one way or the other whether I've actually got it.
I often use the old trick of turning it upside down and viewing composition and form which helps alot but do any of you guys have any tricks that work for you? Do you struggle? Are you honest/hard enough on yourself, maybe you think ( especially when uploading to a site like this ) that you'll go with it and let others inform you?
What processes do you undergo to decide which images stay and which go...obviously by this I simply mean we work print or work on in some way rather than literally filing some and trashing others!
I often use the old trick of turning it upside down and viewing composition and form which helps alot but do any of you guys have any tricks that work for you? Do you struggle? Are you honest/hard enough on yourself, maybe you think ( especially when uploading to a site like this ) that you'll go with it and let others inform you?
What processes do you undergo to decide which images stay and which go...obviously by this I simply mean we work print or work on in some way rather than literally filing some and trashing others!
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Simon, editing is one of the most difficult things to do to one's own work. I tend to be pretty hard, as I am also a professional photo editor. I throw out a lot more than I keep. There is so much criteria to consider when editing, personal, compositional, emotional, subject, etc.. I think we all really know when we got what we want, but then there are those images that are "different". Ones that we tend to keep around to "digest' before we really know what's there.
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
Here's what I try to do - copied and pasted from a response I gave on another forum:
As I shoot (process, and scan) I throw my intial favorites (or just images that strike me) into a seperate review folder. I like to make cheap small prints of these, and every 3 months or so, I spread them all out on the floor.
This gives me a chance to do a few things quickly.
1. Immediately find the ones that have the most graphic impact. The ones that really stand out (even small and on the floor). Those might go in a portfolio later.
2. Get an overview of what (subject, style, color, etc.) has been interesting to me over the past few months. Maybe my style is changing, or my tastes are. Its good to check in every once in while.
It can also help to do the same thing with the rejects. Spread them out and see what you might have done differently. Or even just see if you can see *why* you don't like those as much.
It all helps you learn and evolve. And that's a much better goal than being a great photographer.
As I shoot (process, and scan) I throw my intial favorites (or just images that strike me) into a seperate review folder. I like to make cheap small prints of these, and every 3 months or so, I spread them all out on the floor.
This gives me a chance to do a few things quickly.
1. Immediately find the ones that have the most graphic impact. The ones that really stand out (even small and on the floor). Those might go in a portfolio later.
2. Get an overview of what (subject, style, color, etc.) has been interesting to me over the past few months. Maybe my style is changing, or my tastes are. Its good to check in every once in while.
It can also help to do the same thing with the rejects. Spread them out and see what you might have done differently. Or even just see if you can see *why* you don't like those as much.
It all helps you learn and evolve. And that's a much better goal than being a great photographer.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
I'm a professional photographer....it doesn't make it any easier for me, infact maybe harder
Thankfully guys like you can help make important decisions in the workplace, I just wish I could make my mind up on so much of my personal stuff.
Got any pro tips for me to add to my meagre gut instincts?
Thankfully guys like you can help make important decisions in the workplace, I just wish I could make my mind up on so much of my personal stuff.Got any pro tips for me to add to my meagre gut instincts?
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
I recently shot an assignment where the end result envolved only six images, I went from shooting about 15 rolls of film to 6 images. Talk about hard...
I started with my contact sheets where I just spent hours pouring over them marking images I thought had a chance. Then I made work prints of those images and then spent hours and hours with them pinned to my wall, arranging, cutting, adding, changing my mind.
Soon I had 30, then 20, then 15 then 10 then finally my six. I would group my prints by what they were saying and pick from there.
So many good pictures didn't make the cut.
I started with my contact sheets where I just spent hours pouring over them marking images I thought had a chance. Then I made work prints of those images and then spent hours and hours with them pinned to my wall, arranging, cutting, adding, changing my mind.
Soon I had 30, then 20, then 15 then 10 then finally my six. I would group my prints by what they were saying and pick from there.
So many good pictures didn't make the cut.
Finder
Veteran
Simple. I take only really bad photographs and then it is easy to to throw them out.
First I contact eveything. Then I print everything I like on the contacts. Then I edit those.
First I contact eveything. Then I print everything I like on the contacts. Then I edit those.
MikeL
Go Fish
Just like with writing, I find the time between looks is really important.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
"The editing process; how do you do it?"
Rarely.
Rarely.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
But i also could do it randomly.
40oz
...
I typically review my shots after development, and work on some right then.
I show my work to friends sometimes, and often they really like a shot I wasn't sure of or had rejected. After asking them about it, I tend to feel silly, but I usually find my opinions of shots change over time, finding more value sometimes in the initial discards. I use a scanner for my version of a contact sheet, so it's easy to review even years later.
I guess I'm saying I try to share even my discards with friends, and often come away with new insights.
I show my work to friends sometimes, and often they really like a shot I wasn't sure of or had rejected. After asking them about it, I tend to feel silly, but I usually find my opinions of shots change over time, finding more value sometimes in the initial discards. I use a scanner for my version of a contact sheet, so it's easy to review even years later.
I guess I'm saying I try to share even my discards with friends, and often come away with new insights.
FrankS
Registered User
Usually it's like this:
As I go through my images, I say:
crap, garbage, waste of film, crap, garbage, ...
Seriously, I look at the contact sheets and note which images look interesting/promising, and during my next printing session I'll print them up. Some are successful, some are not.
As I go through my images, I say:
crap, garbage, waste of film, crap, garbage, ...
Seriously, I look at the contact sheets and note which images look interesting/promising, and during my next printing session I'll print them up. Some are successful, some are not.
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DavidH
Overweight and over here
Ahhh...'murdering the darlings'...
Walk away after the process workflow and give it some time before looking again with fresh eyes.
Rope in someone who's opinion you trust who has also read the brief - they can be brutal.
Look at the set with the eyes of the client - despite your love for a particular shot, what actually fits the brief?
Experience of the kind of thing the client likes - sadly, often mundane crap rather than the fantastic art we create
I use a combination of all of the above. My business partner is a wordsmith and understands the clients inside out. She knows what they will like and knows me well enough to be able to tell me I'm wrong. Same with the visuals of the show - those scenes that have personal connection (because they were hard to film, look fabulous etc) out go the ones that don't work leaving me spluttering on the sidelines...
If you don't have a 2nd pair of eyes then time away so you come back fresh is the absolute best way - not always easy on a deadline - but also try and get inside the head of the client - and have an idea of what they want - look at your images thru their eyes with the brief running round inside your head.
Bitch isnt it...
good luck
Walk away after the process workflow and give it some time before looking again with fresh eyes.
Rope in someone who's opinion you trust who has also read the brief - they can be brutal.
Look at the set with the eyes of the client - despite your love for a particular shot, what actually fits the brief?
Experience of the kind of thing the client likes - sadly, often mundane crap rather than the fantastic art we create
I use a combination of all of the above. My business partner is a wordsmith and understands the clients inside out. She knows what they will like and knows me well enough to be able to tell me I'm wrong. Same with the visuals of the show - those scenes that have personal connection (because they were hard to film, look fabulous etc) out go the ones that don't work leaving me spluttering on the sidelines...
If you don't have a 2nd pair of eyes then time away so you come back fresh is the absolute best way - not always easy on a deadline - but also try and get inside the head of the client - and have an idea of what they want - look at your images thru their eyes with the brief running round inside your head.
Bitch isnt it...
good luck
Bob Michaels
nobody special
My default is "pass it by unless there is some strong compelling reason to keep it". If a neg is just "good" it goes no further. I look for extraordinarily great.
I remember there is no useful purpose for the 51st best shot and beyond in a long term series. Likewise, there is no use for the 51st best photo I made in the last few years.
I normally work on a series for six months to a few years. I might end up with 12-30 final prints. So if something doesn't have potential (i.e top 50) for being in that group, it goes nowhere.
Sometimes I shoot random things that don't fit into a series. Then I ask myself if the image has the potential to stand alone as one of the best things I've ever ever done.
Oh, mechanically I view b&w negs on a light table, marking the ones for future consideration. Then I re-review later, deleting over half of my original selection.
I have a show in January which will be about 25-30 prints as it has to fit in a finite space. The concept is "environmental portraits of people of the old south" so it cuts across just about everything I've done for the last five years. I'll edit it down to around 50 prints. Then I'll lay them out on a big table and enlist the help of a chosen friend, to sort them into what gets in the exhibit and what goes back in the file. That friend I select may be a photographer, but it may be a painter, or may even be someone with a more indirect view.
I remember there is no useful purpose for the 51st best shot and beyond in a long term series. Likewise, there is no use for the 51st best photo I made in the last few years.
I normally work on a series for six months to a few years. I might end up with 12-30 final prints. So if something doesn't have potential (i.e top 50) for being in that group, it goes nowhere.
Sometimes I shoot random things that don't fit into a series. Then I ask myself if the image has the potential to stand alone as one of the best things I've ever ever done.
Oh, mechanically I view b&w negs on a light table, marking the ones for future consideration. Then I re-review later, deleting over half of my original selection.
I have a show in January which will be about 25-30 prints as it has to fit in a finite space. The concept is "environmental portraits of people of the old south" so it cuts across just about everything I've done for the last five years. I'll edit it down to around 50 prints. Then I'll lay them out on a big table and enlist the help of a chosen friend, to sort them into what gets in the exhibit and what goes back in the file. That friend I select may be a photographer, but it may be a painter, or may even be someone with a more indirect view.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
For almost all my photos it will be there tomorrow, so I go back tomorrow and get it a bit better.
jbf
||||||
In the case of film I usually wait a few weeks before i develop my film. That way I sort of forget the feeling I had when I was taking the photograph. By doing so I can look more objectively at my shots.
The even more "hardcore" would be to wait a year or so such as Gary Winogrand, but I'm not that hardcore.
Once my film is developed I usually scan negatives or take digital snapshots for usage of them for quick contact sheets.
For now I dont have a darkroom setup available to create wet prints so I mainly just ddisplay for web at the moment. Eventually though I'll do my own wet printing.
First things I look for are technical issues and problems with the photograph. This can be composition, focus or anything basically.
I make notes of the shots that have technical issues and for most of them I immediately throw them out. However, there is the exception of if the photograph seems to capture some kind of more deeper meaning and emotional quality then its possible I will keep it if it's qualities of character, etc exceed it's technical flaws.
IE, if it seems to just "have something" to it that works in lieu of it's technical mishaps then i'll keep it. Otherwise out it goes.
The even more "hardcore" would be to wait a year or so such as Gary Winogrand, but I'm not that hardcore.
Once my film is developed I usually scan negatives or take digital snapshots for usage of them for quick contact sheets.
For now I dont have a darkroom setup available to create wet prints so I mainly just ddisplay for web at the moment. Eventually though I'll do my own wet printing.
First things I look for are technical issues and problems with the photograph. This can be composition, focus or anything basically.
I make notes of the shots that have technical issues and for most of them I immediately throw them out. However, there is the exception of if the photograph seems to capture some kind of more deeper meaning and emotional quality then its possible I will keep it if it's qualities of character, etc exceed it's technical flaws.
IE, if it seems to just "have something" to it that works in lieu of it's technical mishaps then i'll keep it. Otherwise out it goes.
yaadetgar
Member
Hi!
The editing part, hardest as it will be, is a part of the photographer work. A good photographer is not only the one who take great pics, but also the one who knows what, of all his good photos, he may show to tell what HE wants.
For myself, sometimes I can watch a day photos for a long time 'till I decide what's good for me. It's kinda personal... There are still a few photos you take, that 'catch your eye' better than others.
One of the photographers I saw in my school, once told us to try the 'fridge test' --> take a photo you think is really good and put it on your fridge. If after a few days you still think it's good, and you keep looking at it and 'searching' things, the photo is good.
But that's me...
Yaad Etgar
The editing part, hardest as it will be, is a part of the photographer work. A good photographer is not only the one who take great pics, but also the one who knows what, of all his good photos, he may show to tell what HE wants.
For myself, sometimes I can watch a day photos for a long time 'till I decide what's good for me. It's kinda personal... There are still a few photos you take, that 'catch your eye' better than others.
One of the photographers I saw in my school, once told us to try the 'fridge test' --> take a photo you think is really good and put it on your fridge. If after a few days you still think it's good, and you keep looking at it and 'searching' things, the photo is good.
But that's me...
Yaad Etgar
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sanmich
Veteran
I am no good at editing. In the past, I have completely missed excellent shots of mine and rediscovered them years after.
That's why, when in doubt I ask a good friend photographer his opinion...
I don't always agree with him but it helps me to justify my choices and to reconsider shots that I have thrown.
That's why, when in doubt I ask a good friend photographer his opinion...
I don't always agree with him but it helps me to justify my choices and to reconsider shots that I have thrown.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
This is quite interesting. I thought people may have many different methods by which they edit their work but it seems the majority of us go by the 'fridge method' as its been called here...or simply, giving an image time to see if it works, or by seeking the advice of trusted friends or those with an eye for such things.
Anybody else have any other methods?
Anybody else have any other methods?
yaadetgar
Member
OurManInTangier said:
Actually, I never used the 'fridge'...
Yaad
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Well, the filtering-out process is simple: anything I don't like, I get rid of. But I'm also a pack rat, and I store *everything*. Except, of course, anything that is a blatant mistake. Even some of those I keep.OurManInTangier said:
But what do I "pick"? It really depends on my mood. And it's very true what's been said before: I revisit photos weeks, even months after I took them, and they don't look nearly as bad as I first thought they'd be. Shooting digital or color film gives me the flexibility of revisiting something with a "monochrome" mindset.
Sometimes you have to previsualize the processing you'll give a film or digital image in order to take a photo, or "rescue" one.