The Ikon Has Landed

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CJP6008

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...in the UK.

Robert White has just told me that the first consignment of 10 Special Edition bodies arrived with him this morning (GMT). "Hurrah" he wryly exclaimed, "I have only waited a year for these!"

£780 +VAT
 
780 GBP = $1362 USD. So Robert White is even a cheaper source for the ZI than Dr. Yao ($1395) in Hong Kong since Americans will not pay VAT. American prices on this camera continue to be the highest I've seen anywhere, which is very unusual. Maybe a hedge against the declining US dollar. It's nice to see that it is available for under $1400, making it an even more viable alternative to the M7 - new or used - while still being an upgrade over a Bessa.
 
£916.50 including VAT. This is about £100 less than previously suggested and cheaper than M7s on ebay. I think they might have got the priceing spot on, as suggested an move up from the Bessa to either a new Ikon or... for abit more £/$, a second-hand M7.

If someone can compare and contrast handling charateristics ... It would be an interest to me and; I am sure, a few other rff members.

Not so long now for Mr. Hicks review in Shutterbug :D (and I hope Roger mentions it in his AP articles as well).
 
major faux pas with the limited edition engraving. it would have looked much better on the back!
 
Looks just a tiny bit clunky, but I guess you could say that's in the Icarex tradition!

Still, very persuasive at this kind of price point. I don't have much opportunity to shoot film anymore, and have already got plenty of nice "vintage" RFs to use when I do... but I'd be awfully tempted to take a look at this one, with that nice long RF base. Think I'd wait for the black model, though...
 
Flyfisher Tom said:
That is a good price, and Robert White is a great firm to deal with. Just wish the dollar was stronger :(
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Stephen says on the CameraQuest website that he'll have the black ones at $1,400 when they become available. That's a pretty good price too, and of course he's a great firm to deal with as well. If I decide to take the plunge, that's probably how I'll take it.
 
CJP6008 said:
Robert White has just told me that the first consignment of 10 Special Edition bodies arrived with him this morning (GMT). £780 +VAT
Click to expand...

But his web page doesn't say it's the Special Edition, or if any warranty is offered. :confused:
 
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My understanding is that Stephen's cameras will be grey market, meaning store (CQ) warranty, & will not be LE. The Limited Edition is obviously silver only. Tony Rose at Popflash told me that he anticipates a price of $1350 for the same deal, although he doesn't really know until they come & he sees what his price is. My guess is that Stephen also has to wait until he can set his price. Tony will have his sooner than Stephen because he will be selling silver as well as black. The silver ones will come in first. Tony expects them this week. I know that great buys can be had on the grey market, but i'm leery of them in this case. Call me paranoid. :rolleyes:
 
I'd actually rather have a black one than the silver LE ones. I'm likewise normally leery of grey market on a newly-introduced camera model, but I don't know whether my local Hasselblad dealer is even going to pick up the ZI.

I guess, as usual, we'll have to wait for the situation to resolve itself before we really know who, where, how much, and how good.
 
Ooooh, it looks good - solid, a no nonsense looking thing. Grrr.

Working on the basis that only 10 of them arrived with Robert yesterday, and they are all Limited Edition, I guess we can asssume that what he is selling, at least initially, are LE ones. Best speak to Robert and his people re warranties etc.

Agree re price point, very attractive and cheaper than second hand M7s are going for. Good condition ones are going for £1300 - £1400 body only with people like Ffordes. You can almost get body and lens for that new with the Ikon. If build quality is up to the mark (and let us hope it is for Zeiss's sake - they have taken a big punt on this camera - heaven forfend that it fails and drags the Co down with it, we cannot afford to lose another big name, unless we all want to use camera 'phones!) then it should be a great little camera a serious alternative to Leica.

For those who have not read Irwin Put's reviews on the lenses here are the links -
http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c015.html
http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c016.html
http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c017.html

From what he says they are great lenses and will give a different "look" to their Leica equivalents - all down to how the designers go about things and how they think images should look. I will be fascinated to read reports from anyone who has bought one, esp. anyone who already has Leica. (A side by side field test of M6/7 with latest 50mm Summicron and Ikon with 50mm Planar would be really interesting.)

I am sure they will be a welcome addition to the RF world - now where's my bank manager's telephone number...?
 
My wariness of the grey market in this case comes from 2 factors: the Zeiss/Cosina partnership & Zeiss quality control.

My expectation is that the high standards of Zeiss QC will lead to a higher number of rejected samples than ususal. In some of these, the identified QC problem will be corrected & they will be turned around & become regular production cameras. However, what happens to those that are rejects?

My fear is that these make their way through back door channels into the grey market. This is where they strange partnership between Zeiss & Cosina comes into play. Zeiss didn't simply subcontract the manufacture of these cameras to Cosina the way Nikon & others have. They also gave them distribution rights in Japan. As a result, Cosina has its own "Zeiss" section on its website (www.cosina.co.jp) So, my question is who controls inventory? Especially in regard to rejected samples. Do these "rejects" fall below Zeiss standards but fall within normal standards for Cosina products? Does Cosina "own" them after they have been rejected by Zeiss? What does it mean to have a Zeiss Ikon that does not carry a Zeiss warranty? Why is Zeiss not willing to stand behind it? Is it just corporate rights & distribution channels? I think it's important that grey market dealers address the QC issues in their advertising & on their web pages to clarify these questions.

I had not originally planned to buy an early production sample but was prepared to wait for user reports & to see the failure rate. (In addition, I've already waited more than a year. ;) ) However, I have been convinced to buy now because of Zeiss QC & because I think that these first samples have probably gotten even more scrutiny than regular production samples will get once the ice has been broken & production routines have become, well, "routine." Part of what I'm paying for IMHO is the reliability that comes with high QC.

I hope that the grey market cameras are built to the same high standards becasue it is an important source for many buyers & because we have some good grey market dealers from which to choose. The grey market also puts downward price pressure on the official distributors - which is certainly needed in the USA. As an aside, it's stunning that the same camera can be obtained for $250 less in England from a highly respected dealer than in the USA.

As I said in a previous post, call me paranoid. :p

Huck
 
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This new M camera is going to drive some Leitz subjects to suicide, others to seek a new God like, "Ikon," and the ones left out will be compelled to wonder the streets and curse amongst themselves. Luckily, Prozak is cheap, unlike the smallest Leica screw or nut. Heck, at 1/2 the price of an M7/MP, and probably better, no one will blame them for their disarray or their newly discovered Ikonic condition. The smart ones with bend; the dumb ones will burst. Take care. ;)
 
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Specially, CL/CLE fans will fall in love with the black model, I guess, the whole camera looks like a homage to the mighty CLE :)

What I 'miss' on first sight ? Had it had the FM3a hybrid shutter, it would have been THE BOMB, but anyway, looks like a true jewel.

Having followed the story of this camera and lenses since many months ago, I can only wish the best success for this new Cosina/Zeiss partnership :)

And thanks for keep bringing new life to the RF world ! Competition is always a good thing.

<ZI, if you're reading this, I think at least I deserve a body plus a 35/2 after my above dissertation ;)>

Oscar
 
Huck,

I would not worry too much about reject stuff going over the fence from the Cosina factory. In a previous life I used to draft contracts of the sort that would be in place between Zeiss and Cosina re production and also distribution (two separate issues). Such things as quality are nailed down pretty hard. It simply would not be worth Cosina allowing rejects to escape. In fact they will be at pains not to as the ramifications for the relationship with Zeiss would be too horrible. It simply is not worth risking such potentially valuable contracts and the devastating effect on their reputation that it would have for the sake of a few quid made by flogging a few cameras out the back door.

Employee theft can never be eliminated although I am sure that Cosina will do their best to do so for the reasons set out above. Also remember, we are talking about production facilities that are not huge, staffed by skilled and reasonably well paid staff making high quality goods that do not have a ready market "on the street". As a worker there would it be worth risking your job to get a reject camera and try to sell it down the pub? Jeans, maybe, car tyres - now you are talking (divert a lory full of them and there is serious cash to be had) not sure cameras are so "liquid" or (easily disposible if you like).

I am sure that you are right that QC will be v good - for it not to be would be folly indeed. I am sure that CZ will not have taken their eye off the ball on that one!

I just want to get one in my sweaty paws!
 
CJP6008 said:
Huck,

I would not worry too much about reject stuff going over the fence from the Cosina factory. In a previous life I used to draft contracts of the sort that would be in place between Zeiss and Cosina re production and also distribution (two separate issues). Such things as quality are nailed down pretty hard. It simply would not be worth Cosina allowing rejects to escape. In fact they will be at pains not to as the ramifications for the relationship with Zeiss would be too horrible. It simply is not worth risking such potentially valuable contracts and the devastating effect on their reputation that it would have for the sake of a few quid made by flogging a few cameras out the back door.

Employee theft can never be eliminated although I am sure that Cosina will do their best to do so for the reasons set out above. Also remember, we are talking about production facilities that are not huge, staffed by skilled and reasonably well paid staff making high quality goods that do not have a ready market "on the street". As a worker there would it be worth risking your job to get a reject camera and try to sell it down the pub? Jeans, maybe, car tyres - now you are talking (divert a lory full of them and there is serious cash to be had) not sure cameras are so "liquid" or (easily disposible if you like).

I am sure that you are right that QC will be v good - for it not to be would be folly indeed. I am sure that CZ will not have taken their eye off the ball on that one!

I just want to get one in my sweaty paws!
Click to expand...

CJ, Thanks for the insight & for quelling my paranoia. Sometimes I get some stupid ideas - aka wild speculation - & need to be brought back to reality. - Huck
 
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