dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
Since the previous thread on this new camera has been pulled, please use this thread to comment on Leica's latest offering.
Please limit your opinions and comments to the camera itself, Leica the company, the marketing or anything else not meant to disparage those folks who may be interested in purchasing the camera.
For my part, I'm not interested in the Vario X, which is a welcome relief from my usual state of GAS. On the other hand, shame on Leica for teasing us with a "Mini M" only to offer a . . . . not M at all.
Please limit your opinions and comments to the camera itself, Leica the company, the marketing or anything else not meant to disparage those folks who may be interested in purchasing the camera.
For my part, I'm not interested in the Vario X, which is a welcome relief from my usual state of GAS. On the other hand, shame on Leica for teasing us with a "Mini M" only to offer a . . . . not M at all.
jammcat
Lick My Lens Cap
Leica has once again proven that they are not interested in what the average consumer or even working photographer wants, but rather, to manufacture another camera devoid of practicality-- one destined for the display case. It's a lovely looking camera, but the lack of a viewfinder, the slow lens, the hefty price tag-- all of these elements make it a camera that will not see much day to day use. I can't wait for the $10,000 Hermes edition. 
IEDEI
Well-known
this is a miserable little camera. a huge disappointment from Leica.
Aristophanes
Well-known
Over-priced for the IQ. I like the general design and concept. It's a grab and go zoom picture taker for the digital age.
Worth maybe $650. $150 more if they have their traditional after-market service.
Worth maybe $650. $150 more if they have their traditional after-market service.
kehng
Established
i'd have called it an D-Lux Max rather than a Mini M
Although my D-Lux 6 has a F1.4 Lux on it
Although my D-Lux 6 has a F1.4 Lux on it
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
I'll second that.
My prediction is that this camera will sell almost as well as the APS film cameras did - key word being almost.
JMHO but I think Leica shot themselves in the foot - big time. Slow lens, no viewfinder, APS-C sensor, $2850 USD price tag - Seriously: In what universe is this camera a good idea??
If Leica wanted to set the photographic world on its ear, they could have released a new and updated version of the CL film camera with a 40mm f/2 lens as a set.
I seem to recall the resurrected MP being somewhat of a success...
drew.saunders
Well-known
In one of the threads that was deleted, it was mentioned that the X Vario would appeal to those who want to buy an X2 primarily for the design of the camera and the red dot, but want a zoom lens. No, these customers aren't Leica purists, but they probably have $2,000 purses and $100,000 cars.
Remember when Porsche announced the Cayenne station wagon? How much the purists screamed and declared that Porsche was dead?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#North_American_sales
For 2011, the Cayenne outsold the 911 by a factor of more than 2 to 1.
Leica will still make cameras for the purists (M240 and MM) and professionals (S), but the X Vario will probably outsell all their other cameras combined. I don't want one, I want an MM, but Leica clearly knows what will sell to a very important market segment.
Remember when Porsche announced the Cayenne station wagon? How much the purists screamed and declared that Porsche was dead?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#North_American_sales
For 2011, the Cayenne outsold the 911 by a factor of more than 2 to 1.
Leica will still make cameras for the purists (M240 and MM) and professionals (S), but the X Vario will probably outsell all their other cameras combined. I don't want one, I want an MM, but Leica clearly knows what will sell to a very important market segment.
MIkhail
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kaiwasoyokaze
Half Frame Goodness
ok. comments on the camera itself. I am interested that it looks like this camera will also take the EVF2. Also, maybe this is their preliminary launch into a APS-C Leica M with interchangeable lens.
Much like how the Fujifilm X100's interest paved the way for the X-pro1, I am thinking that this is Leica's experiment to gauge interest with the exact same hardware and body shape that they will launch a APS-C Leica system on? Who knows? I'm not buying one, that's for sure. But if they use this Vario X as a launch platform, then sure I will be interested.
Much like how the Fujifilm X100's interest paved the way for the X-pro1, I am thinking that this is Leica's experiment to gauge interest with the exact same hardware and body shape that they will launch a APS-C Leica system on? Who knows? I'm not buying one, that's for sure. But if they use this Vario X as a launch platform, then sure I will be interested.
thegman
Veteran
I like it. The slow lens does not bother me, I'm used to them, using medium format most of the time. The lack of VF is not great though.
It's not for me, but I do basically like it.
Whether it will sell well or not, time will tell.
It's not for me, but I do basically like it.
Whether it will sell well or not, time will tell.
v_roma
Well-known
Well, it sure didn't take long for comments disparaging those that might be interested in the camera. I'm not one of them but still.
raytoei@gmail.com
Veteran
hi,
1. body looks like leica
2. real leica lens
3. evf
reminds me of digilux 2.
raytoei
1. body looks like leica
2. real leica lens
3. evf
reminds me of digilux 2.
raytoei
slava
Established
I have the opportunity to test one out and the first thought is that it is leica feel and good image quality. The slow lens is a little problem and I prefer primes so I will skip buying it...
bwidjaja
Warung Photo
Possible. But somehow i am guessing it is more about expanding the market beyond the traditional Leica M series and more into mainstream consumer market. Like someone mentioned earlier, customers who like X2 in general but would like a zoom lens.
Think about BMW X3 or Mercedes A Class. Lower price point, smaller; but still has the "prestige".
Think about BMW X3 or Mercedes A Class. Lower price point, smaller; but still has the "prestige".
f16sunshine
Moderator
Big Sensors take Big Lenses
Big Sensors take Big Lenses
I have the Hex Dual 21/35 f3.4/4. It's a pretty big lens for Rangefinder and easy to comparison sake. Most other "35mm" zooms lenses are made for a longer register. ThE Hex Dual, MATE, and WATE being the exceptions. All are quite large and still on the slow side.
Now add the extention to get to a 7omm equivalent as the Vario does. Plus AF considerations.
It's clear why the lens is so slow. Physically it would need to be much larger to make it faster.
I sit in the camp of people who feel smaller sensors have a place in Photography (as do larger ones).
If Leica was set on a AF zoom lens camera to appeal to more casual photog (as this model appears to be targeting).... a 4/3 or 1" sensor would have been a smarter move than trying to "stuff" aps-c behind that big lens.
If Fuji or Sony try the same sensor size they will deal with the same physics issue.
Give Leica credit for trying. Obviously there is a lot of resistance here from us gear heads. The target demograph may just love this thing!
I love the X20
Big Sensors take Big Lenses
I have the Hex Dual 21/35 f3.4/4. It's a pretty big lens for Rangefinder and easy to comparison sake. Most other "35mm" zooms lenses are made for a longer register. ThE Hex Dual, MATE, and WATE being the exceptions. All are quite large and still on the slow side.
Now add the extention to get to a 7omm equivalent as the Vario does. Plus AF considerations.
It's clear why the lens is so slow. Physically it would need to be much larger to make it faster.
I sit in the camp of people who feel smaller sensors have a place in Photography (as do larger ones).
If Leica was set on a AF zoom lens camera to appeal to more casual photog (as this model appears to be targeting).... a 4/3 or 1" sensor would have been a smarter move than trying to "stuff" aps-c behind that big lens.
If Fuji or Sony try the same sensor size they will deal with the same physics issue.
Give Leica credit for trying. Obviously there is a lot of resistance here from us gear heads. The target demograph may just love this thing!
I love the X20
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
This article http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2420231,00.asp proclaims:
I'm a bit confused. 35mm has always been referred to as "small format" while any camera that takes 120 or 220 film has been designated as "medium format." Cameras using film measuring 4x5 inches or larger have been called "large format" from the beginning of time.
And now a camera with a sensor that measures 23.6 x 15.7 mm has a "Big Image Sensor" when a 24x36mm "small format" camera produces negatives that are 2.33 times larger than the camera with the "Big Image Sensor??"
What The Fishsticks??
I'm a bit confused. 35mm has always been referred to as "small format" while any camera that takes 120 or 220 film has been designated as "medium format." Cameras using film measuring 4x5 inches or larger have been called "large format" from the beginning of time.
And now a camera with a sensor that measures 23.6 x 15.7 mm has a "Big Image Sensor" when a 24x36mm "small format" camera produces negatives that are 2.33 times larger than the camera with the "Big Image Sensor??"
What The Fishsticks??
lonemantis
Well-known
To me, this is just more evidence that Leica is no longer an innovator in the photographic industry, but a jewelry manufacturer. I think that creative spirit died with the M5 and CL.
On a practical level, the big zoom lens defeats the X series' purpose as a compact camera. Maybe if it was really rugged and weather-sealed it would make a decent (if overpriced) travel camera, but so far my OM-D still does that better.
On a practical level, the big zoom lens defeats the X series' purpose as a compact camera. Maybe if it was really rugged and weather-sealed it would make a decent (if overpriced) travel camera, but so far my OM-D still does that better.
Digital sensors are different than film. They react differently to enlargements.
Well, many APS-C digital cameras can produce larger enlargements, before falling apart, compared to many types of negative film in 35mm. The Sigma DP2m allows me to print 20x30" prints that show no signs of falling apart at all (even at close-up inspection, no artifacts at all). I got a lot worse results at 12x18" with many films of the 90s.
I took a class with Joel Meyerowitz in which he was using a loner Leica S2. He said he made prints from the S2 and his 8x10" large format camera at a size of like 5 feet wide and he stated he could not see a huge difference in quality. Of course, the differences in format are seen in depth of field and the fact that you have to use different focal lengths in each format.
