shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
So said the rumors.
Why oh why.....???
Sometimes Olympus could be so thick in the head.
What say you? deal-breaker or not?
It is for me.
Why oh why.....???
Sometimes Olympus could be so thick in the head.
What say you? deal-breaker or not?
It is for me.
PatrickT
New Rangefinder User
That's what the OM-D is for isn't it?
Sam N
Well-known
Yeah, none of the digital Pens have had built-in VFs, so why would they start now? There is supposed to be an e-m5 replacement coming this year.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
The lack of built-in EVF hasn't hurt their sales so far. Hell, if I bought an E-M5 I'd still have to plug in my VF-2 for many of my shots - a flippy LCD just ain't going to cut it.
sailor
Well-known
The EM-5 (or OM-D) does have a built in viewfinder.
mh2000
Well-known
So you built-in EVF people just want a redesigned OMD??? I don't get it. OMD with flat top, even if the camera has a larger height than any other PEN, but called a PEN? I know I'm a sucker for styling and all, but saying that you can't buy an OMD because of the styling is kind of petty IMO.
I also don't want some flippy screen either... the simplicity of the flagship PEN line is in its austere simplicity... and while you're at it, get rid of that damned flash!!!
I also don't want some flippy screen either... the simplicity of the flagship PEN line is in its austere simplicity... and while you're at it, get rid of that damned flash!!!
ruby.monkey
Veteran
I know, and I would still need to plug in a VF-2.
mh2000
Well-known
Yes, it has a built in VF, but the VF doesn't flip up like the ones built for the PENs. That is a useful feature for many... if I was shooting macro, that's what I'd want as an accessory too, not a little built in VF as in the OMD or located in the top corner of a square PEN-like camera.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Hey, bro, calm down... I was just asking a question.
I don't want a redesigned OM-D. I want a Pen flagship that has a built-in viewfinder. If the Fuji X series can do it, and Olympus would like a share in the "enthusiast" market, they ought to do it.
Not everyone like to compose with an LCD.
The detachable VF is a good idea on paper, not in real life usage (not mine anyway).
PatrickT
New Rangefinder User
But the E-M5 essentially IS the Pen flagship. When looking for a mirrorless camera, people will cross shop the X-Pro1 / X-E1 and E-M5 since they all are mirrorless cameras with built in viewfinders...so Olympus IS getting a piece of that market.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Olympus hasn't yet built in an eye-level viewfinder on a digital body they brand as a "Pen". I don't know why they'd start since they make sell two different EVFs and you can also get optical finders for various lenses if you prefer, and the majority of users seem to use the LCD as their only viewfinder quite happily anyway.
G
GaryLH
Veteran
True but...
Haven't really used anything in m43 since gf1/gh1 days. Never got along w/ omd.
But fwiw, I always thought that Olympus should eventually do a true retro of their digital pen by using their "pen ft" just as omd is a retro dslr design. Back in day, it was the slr that looked more like an rf then a slr.
Using ovf/evf attachment like what was on the GF series works, but it would be nicer to have evf.
Gary
PS. On the other hand it probably has to do more w/ marjpketing research versus return on investment --> currently not worth for them..
Last edited:
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I beg to differ.
If you are familiar with Olympus history, you'd know that Pen series are not the same as the OM series.
The Pen digital cameras are the digital successor to the Olympus Pen half-frame family... which *has* a built in viewfinder.
It's pure bunk to say that because it has a flat top therefore there's no place for a viewfinder. Olympus had done digital cameras with that model exactly (E-300 and E-330) and that's back a decade ago.
But I admit that most people may not realize this distinction (I am an Olympus nut), and may blur the OM-D with Fuji X series. So your point is valid in this sense.
rbelyell
Well-known
i'm not exactly sure why theres such an issue with evf unless its a 'pocketability' issue. tbh, ive had a digital pen plus evf, i have the gxr plus evf, and had and sold the omd. the articulating nature of an evf is a truly extraordinary tool that obviously cannot be duplicated with a traditional vf. ive gotten a ton of street and 'candid' shots by using an evf unobtrusively as a waist level finder that i would never have gotten pointing my 'pistol' at the subject. for the street, candid, or macro photographer the articulating evf is eons better than a traditional vf. hey guys, stop making lemons from lemonade! ):
tony
tony
PatrickT
New Rangefinder User
I beg to differ.
If you are familiar with Olympus history, you'd know that Pen series are not the same as the OM series.
The Pen digital cameras are the digital successor to the Olympus Pen half-frame family... which *has* a built in viewfinder.
It's pure bunk to say that because it has a flat top therefore there's no place for a viewfinder. Olympus had done digital cameras with that model exactly (E-300 and E-330) and that's back a decade ago.
But I admit that most people may not realize this distinction (I am an Olympus nut), and may blur the OM-D with Fuji X series. So your point is valid in this sense.
I'm aware of Olympus' history and the difference between the OM line and the PEN line. One of the major differences being film size (half frame vs "full frame").
However, Olympus has now removed that difference, being that the E-M5 and the PEN cameras all have the same sensor size. So aside from the fact that the E-M5 doesn't say "PEN" on it, it still essentially is.
I mean, what would you want from a digital PEN with built in viewfinder that the E-M5 doesn't already give? Just a different name?
mh2000
Well-known
Ok, at this stage of the game, other than restyling an OMD, what do you expect out of a new PEN with built-in EVF? I'm really confused here.
I'm also not buying that rumored price either, street will be lower than the OMD and lower than the competition (with builtin EVF's)... my guess is that it will shake out at about $200 less than an OMD. Oly isn't so dumb as to make a new PEN with no EVF cost the same as the OMD IMO... guess I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
I'm also not buying that rumored price either, street will be lower than the OMD and lower than the competition (with builtin EVF's)... my guess is that it will shake out at about $200 less than an OMD. Oly isn't so dumb as to make a new PEN with no EVF cost the same as the OMD IMO... guess I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
mh2000
Well-known
Totally agree! Of course, if there was not cost or size increase, I'd be happy enough with a builtin EVF, but I recognize that nothing is free... and the lack of a builtin EVF is a complete non-issue to. In real life shooting, I've only had a hard time using the LCD a handful of times.
I guess I like the Pen styling and the OMD styling... liked both the origianl Pens and the OM-1 as well.
I guess I like the Pen styling and the OMD styling... liked both the origianl Pens and the OM-1 as well.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'm quite familiar with Olympus history and have owned several Pen, Pen Fs as well as OM, E-system, IS-system, and Pen digital cameras.
Look at the photo you presented. The Pen F SLR is mostly empty space inside, room for the mirror to move, the film cartridge and film to move, etc. The Pen digital, if you ever open one up, has virtually no space to spare at all.
EVFs are not huge but they do take up some space. Using the Olympus VF-2 as a guide, they'd need another 1.5 cubic inches of interior space to put it in. Never mind the advanced IBIS system that fills most of what looks like an SLR prism hump on the E-M5. A quality optical viewfinder will not be any smaller either.
So you could build a Pen with an internal EVF or OVF, sure, but it's going to be larger than the E-P2 at the very least. Rearranging the guts of the Pen E-P2 can be done, to some degree, but the body MUST grow by some amount or you are giving up space in some other components to do it. Where exactly to put the EVF and keep the Pen F like look is a tricky business.
I had the flat-top Panasonic L1 DSLR, which had a similar sidewinder mirror optical system to the Pen F SLRs (and shared some parts with the Olympus E-330 model). Believe me, it was about double the volume of the E-P2—a much, much bigger camera. I love the shape and ergonomics, but the reflex viewfinder was perhaps its most challenged bit.
I'd like it if they made a Pen digital that was just like the Panasonic LC1 in design:
But note that this camera, with a fixed lens and a sensor a quarter the size of the E-P2, is larger in virtually all dimensions. And it doesn't have IBIS either.
I'd still love it. ;-)
G
Look at the photo you presented. The Pen F SLR is mostly empty space inside, room for the mirror to move, the film cartridge and film to move, etc. The Pen digital, if you ever open one up, has virtually no space to spare at all.
EVFs are not huge but they do take up some space. Using the Olympus VF-2 as a guide, they'd need another 1.5 cubic inches of interior space to put it in. Never mind the advanced IBIS system that fills most of what looks like an SLR prism hump on the E-M5. A quality optical viewfinder will not be any smaller either.
So you could build a Pen with an internal EVF or OVF, sure, but it's going to be larger than the E-P2 at the very least. Rearranging the guts of the Pen E-P2 can be done, to some degree, but the body MUST grow by some amount or you are giving up space in some other components to do it. Where exactly to put the EVF and keep the Pen F like look is a tricky business.
I had the flat-top Panasonic L1 DSLR, which had a similar sidewinder mirror optical system to the Pen F SLRs (and shared some parts with the Olympus E-330 model). Believe me, it was about double the volume of the E-P2—a much, much bigger camera. I love the shape and ergonomics, but the reflex viewfinder was perhaps its most challenged bit.
I'd like it if they made a Pen digital that was just like the Panasonic LC1 in design:
But note that this camera, with a fixed lens and a sensor a quarter the size of the E-P2, is larger in virtually all dimensions. And it doesn't have IBIS either.
I'd still love it. ;-)
G
I beg to differ.
If you are familiar with Olympus history, you'd know that Pen series are not the same as the OM series.
The Pen digital cameras are the digital successor to the Olympus Pen half-frame family... which *has* a built in viewfinder.
It's pure bunk to say that because it has a flat top therefore there's no place for a viewfinder. Olympus had done digital cameras with that model exactly (E-300 and E-330) and that's back a decade ago.
But I admit that most people may not realize this distinction (I am an Olympus nut), and may blur the OM-D with Fuji X series. So your point is valid in this sense.
I know a lot of us here require internal VFs, but I'm not so sure the average consumer wants it. I see people all the time in NYC (tourist spots) using VF cameras with the LCD instead.
rbelyell
Well-known
the choice is not lack of internal vf forcing the photogrher to use the lcd. with the pen the choice is external articulating vf or lcd. i still dont get the problem here...esp since, as detailed above, an articulating external vf has many advantages over an internal one.