Thinking Medium Format.. TLR or Hassy or RB67?

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PaulN

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I dabbled with a Seagull TLR for a few days before the shutter jammed and I returned it. Since then, I've been thinking about getting into Medium format, potentially 6x6. TLRs appeal to me, and I had a good experience with the Seagull. I did end up with some parallax error a few times, but overall, I enjoyed it.

Hassleblads look nice and offer 6x6 and the ability to change lenses. I'm just not familiar with what has been phased out and what still is supportable.

Then there is the Mamiya RB67. It seems the cheapest out of all of them, and has a bellows and ability for close focusing. It just seems heavy.

Use? I'm thinking some backpacking/landscape and portrait shots.

Then, part of me thinks that if I'm going to get something bulky, I might as well just go to a 4x5 field camera. I just wish I could develop the sheet film at home without a darkroom..

Anyone else go through this? Any thoughts? I love my leica, but the larger negatives call out to me..
 
Hey Paul,
Larger negatives are really impressive. I just got an RZ67, and I have a 5x7. The RZ is really heavy, and I would personally not want to deal with that weight if I intended to go backpacking. For portraits the RB/RZ67 is one of the best cameras out there. But it's just very heavy.

4x5 actually isn't that hard to develop without a darkroom - just get a unicolor drum for about $50 and you're set. You gotta load in the dark, but that's it. The HP Combi-Plan tank is also a daylight tank, and you can soup negs like you do with 35mm and 120.

Personally, I'd go for the 4x5. But, if you decide to go with medium format, you might consider a Bronica 6x6 system. Not that heavy, and dirt cheap right now. Much more so than hassy systems.

allan
 
Hi Paul,

Other than my MP, I also shoot with a Hasselblad 500cm, and a Rolleiflex. If you are shooting a lot of available light, the TLR is nice as there is no mirror vibration. Although, I have got a few great shots down to 1/30th of a second on the Hasselblad, 1/60th seems to be a safe bet, in most instances I still prefer it over the Rolleiflex.

Cheers,
kf
 
kaiyen said:
4x5 actually isn't that hard to develop without a darkroom - just get a unicolor drum for about $50 and you're set. You gotta load in the dark, but that's it. The HP Combi-Plan tank is also a daylight tank, and you can soup negs like you do with 35mm and 120.

Personally, I'd go for the 4x5. But, if you decide to go with medium format, you might consider a Bronica 6x6 system. Not that heavy, and dirt cheap right now. Much more so than hassy systems.

allan
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The Bronica's have appeal, There is a Kowa Six in the Medium Format Classified right now and the price is very good. I was going to jump on that but (speaking of 4x5) I am taking possession of a Calumet CC401 monorail and Ilex 190mm lens instead. Got the monorail lens and 5 holders for less than the Kowa. CSB.
 
I pretty much agree with what has been said already.

How much money do ya got? If you go Hassy you should price the additional lenses that you desire.

How about this? Get the Mamiya with portrait lens and weld it to your tripod and leave it in the studio. Pick up a Yashicamat, Yashicamat 124G, or Minolta Autocord for your tlr hand held shots. Pick up a Crown Graphic 4x5 or better yet a Super Graphic 4x5 for your landscape shots and back packing. Total for these 3 systems may very well be less than a Hassy with wide, normal and portrait lens.

Unicolor Drum processing of 4x5 is easy to do with out a dark room.

Wayne
 
Why buy a MF SLR?

only reasons are : lots of glass to choose from and really cheap to buy into.

reasons not to : heavy, big, BIG, loud, hard to get into tack sharp focus unless you've got amazing eyesight or you're just great at judging distances and hyperfocus.

Reasons to buy into a MF RF like the Mamiya 7II or Bronica RF645 : sharper glass, smaller, lighter, quieter, more durable in terms of longevity (mirror boxes fail), little or zero camera shake (leaf shutters are like feathers). And you'll get sharper images.

I've owned or used nearly every major medium format system out there (except the really obscure stuff like Kowas). Only one I haven't used : Hassy.

Used Mamiya RZ/RB series, Pentax 67, Pentax 645nII, Mamiya 645E, and others I can't remember. Used two 4x5 cameras (field and monorail).

The sharpest images I got with the MF SLRs don't compare to those I've gotten with the RF645 or what I've seen of the Mamiya 7 series. The difference is immediately obvious.

If you're traveling, backpacking, hiking, whatever, you'd be better off with a rangefinder in my opinion. I really can't imagine any reason to buy into the SLRs except for removable backs and lots of lenses. But how often do you change backs? And how many focal lengths do you really need? I have 3 right now and only use 2.
 
I caught the MF bug a few years back and took advantage of the great film exodus on eBay...never paid more the US$100 for a body and $150 for a lens.

Here's what I have in MF and how it gets used.

1) Some Chinese TLRs picked up locally (Taiwan) for ~US$30. Never used anymore.
2) Mamiya RB67 Pro-S with 90/180/250 lenses. Used to use a lot. Love the format. But too heavy for general use, so it only gets used when I'm going out to shoot something specific.
2) Bronica ETRSi with 75mm lens. Have it with a rapid winder...not exactly as fast as an SLR, but a lot more convinient then the RB. This one gets used a lot.
 
Id go with the hassy, KEH has tons of bargain thats pretty cheap. Not to long ago i saw A 500cm kit (body w/ waistlevel finder , back, and 80mm lens,) for about $400, compared to what it used to be hassys are dirt cheap. 4x5 stuff is also dirt cheap, you can get alot of great deals on ebay, or at shows where people are just trying to get rid of stuff. You just need to make the choice between medium and large format
 
I've used both Mamiya RZ67 and currently Hasselblad 500cm. The Hasselblad is definitely the more portable of the two - both are capable of taking outstanding images. I do a lot of backpacking, generally I'll take a rangefinder and two lenses but for some trips I'll pack the 500CM with 50mm and 150mm. It is not lightweight but who needs a tent and food anyway!
Nick
 
shutterflower said:
The sharpest images I got with the MF SLRs don't compare to those I've gotten with the RF645 or what I've seen of the Mamiya 7 series. The difference is immediately obvious.
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Whoa. Are you saying that the Mamiya 7 and the RF645 are absolutely, undeniably sharper than the Hassy?

I am all about everyone having different opinions and seeing things differently, but this is a pretty hard one to swallow, I have to say. I have shot the Mamiya 7 and worked with folks that have 'blads, and I would never, ever be able to say that one was absolutely sharper than the other.

wow.
allan
 
If you can afford Hassy, buy a 4x5. You may well end up at 8x10 anyway, but the 4x5 being 1/2 scale makes an affordable stopping point. I won't play the sharpness game. But I'll tell you this - once you have seen a 4x5 transparency on a light table you will never shoot 35mm slides again.

Note, I can not and doubt that I ever will be able to afford Hassy. OTOH, I do things I could not do with a Hassy with my Anniversary Speed Graphic and the 3 lenses I have for it (only one of which was actually made for it :) ) Life tends to be like that.

Oh, and if I could afford Hassy, I'd spend that kind of money on a Linhoff instead... :D

William
 
since you're into closeups and portraits, i'd go with an slr. add the bronica gs1 to the list. it's basically a mamiya rz67 without the rotating back and bellows. but with the speed grip, it's like a pentax 67 with interchangeable backs. it might even be lighter....

or how about a 6x9 fuji rangefinder?
 
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If you're into closeups, forget the Rolleiflex. Otherwise, it'll back pack a hell of a lot easier and you don't have to worry about schleping along a bunch of lenses. It is also a great portrait camera.

The little known Kowa Six (Hasselblad clone) is good-looking, way cheaper, and has a world-class 80mm lens. But it's heavy, like a 'blad, and the shutter release sound will send birds a mile away into the sky. They probably think they've been shot at.

On the other hand, the Rolleiflex shutter release sound is akin to an M3.

Ted
 
kaiyen said:
Whoa. Are you saying that the Mamiya 7 and the RF645 are absolutely, undeniably sharper than the Hassy?

I am all about everyone having different opinions and seeing things differently, but this is a pretty hard one to swallow, I have to say. I have shot the Mamiya 7 and worked with folks that have 'blads, and I would never, ever be able to say that one was absolutely sharper than the other.

wow.
allan
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I SAID that i never used the Hassy.
 
ghost said:
since you're into closeups and portraits, i'd go with an slr. add the bronica gs1 to the list. it's basically a mamiya rz67 without the rotating back and bellows. but with the speed grip, it's like a pentax 67 with interchangeable backs. it might even be lighter....

or how about a 6x9 fuji rangefinder?
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that's a point for SLRs. CLoseups and portraits. That one slipped my mind . . .I suppose since I have no trouble shooting portraits on my rangefinder.

For closeups, macro, tight headshots, the Mamiya bellows cameras are without peers in the industry - all factors taken into consideration. Hasselblad has a good rep, but I have never used one.
 
tedwhite said:
If you're into closeups, forget the Rolleiflex. Otherwise, it'll back pack a hell of a lot easier and you don't have to worry about schleping along a bunch of lenses. It is also a great portrait camera.

The little known Kowa Six (Hasselblad clone) is good-looking, way cheaper, and has a world-class 80mm lens. But it's heavy, like a 'blad, and the shutter release sound will send birds a mile away into the sky. They probably think they've been shot at.

On the other hand, the Rolleiflex shutter release sound is akin to an M3.

Ted
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Kowas don't have interchangeable backs, either. Don't know if that's important to him or not.
 
I shoot both MF SLR (GS-1 6x7) and 4x5. The jump in camera size isn't terribly drastic, but the method and pace are much, much different. For one, 4x5 just isn't something you handhold. It's strapped to a tripod at all times. Focusing is slower, movements come into play, and shutter speeds slow way down. It's a much more methodic way of working. That being said, it's very well suited for a lot of subjects. I'm planning to shoot mind in the morning for some architecture :) Some love that way of working, but I kinda see a tripod as a leash.

Really the only reason I have a MF SLR instead of a rangefinder is because I love waist-level finders. My GS-1 even has a little flip-up magnifier that helps find focus. I had a Mamiya C330 for a while too and it was a very nice camera. I don't think TLR's are my bag though.
 
If you get a Rolleiflex or Rolleicord TLR, you can buy one of three Rolleinar accessories that allow close up focussing. Not brilliant but it cures parallax as well.

I'd buy a nice Rolleicord til you're comfortable, rather than jump to a Hasse
 
Paul,

If you are interested, I have a cla'd Rolleicord lll, with a new bright split prism focusing screen I had installed during the cla, in excellent condition, with case. I may decide to sell it as I have a Rolleiflex as well, I hardly ever use them since I bought the Hasselblad.

Cheers,
kf
 
PaulN, going through your posting again, I'd like to comment on a few things you said.

You said, in reference to the older Mamiya bellows camera : "it seems the cheapest out of all of them, and has bellows and ability for close focusing." YOu didn't, however, mention that you were particularly interested in close focusing.

You also say that you "love" your Leica but "the larger negatives call out to [you]"

you know, the MF rangefinders are the best of both worlds. Big negs, quiet, sharp, compact - streetable. That's abig one. I have lots of street work that I'm glad I had a 645 camera to shoot with. Imagine lugging the RB or even a Hasselblad around town or on a trip, around your neck. It's just a totally different world - and as someone here says, you'll have any of the 6x7 SLRs stuck on a tripod permanently.

THe real issue here is whether or not you want something with strong close focusing capability. How often do you shoot macro type work? Is 1 meter too far away? If you want to add a camera with both larger negatives and capabilities that the Leica does not offer . . .like close focusing and macro . . .then an SLR is the way to go.

I would AVOID the obscure cameras like Kowas and the RUssian models because you'll have a harder time finding accessories and parts when needed. Also, you don't need 6x7 to be in medium format. You'd never notice the differece in a print anyway until 11x14. Buy into the Mamiya 645 setup. Very cheap, lenses of amazing quality - as 99% of pros in the world will tell you, and a nearly infinite supply of accessories, bodies, lenses on ebay and elsewhere.

The RB is so heavy and huge that you'd never take it out. It is heavier than some 4x5 field cameras. The 67 Mamiyas do have nice focusing screens, though. But you get a great eye-level finder on the 645 cameras - and you can switch those off for waistlevels if you like! If you like your Leica, you'll find getting into medium format unpleasant if you push it too far. If you really want big negs, go 4x5 - then you can really justify the size and weight increase.

Oh, and one more BIG point about the Mamiyas : there exists a leaf shutter standard lens for the Mamiya. 80mm I think.
 
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