Roger Willco
Member
I'm thinking about three lens combinations for the M8. I haven't owned a Leica before but I used a friends M7 and 35mm summicron for an afternoon. I wear glasses and had some trouble seeing the entire 35mm framelines with the 0.76 viewfinder. I'm now shooting mostly with a D100 using fixed focal length lenses - 24mm f2.8 and 35mm f2.0, but sometimes I like to go wider or longer. My Contax G1 has been idle for some time now.
I think I'd like to start with a 28mm since I should have no trouble seeing the frame lines and this is approximately the same FOV as a 24mm lens on my D100. What are your thought on the Zeiss ZM 28 versus the new Leica 28mm ASPH? How does the size/performance of these two lenses compare?
My next lens would probably be longer. Would it make sense to go to a 50mm next or is a 35mm a great enough change? How does the Zeiss ZM 50 f2 compare to a summicron 50mm ASPH?
My third lens would be wider. If I have a 28mm it seems like I should go for a 21mm even though it goes beyond the viewfinder. The change from 28mm to 24mm or 25mm does not seem that significant to me. I don't know how much I'd use the 21, so I may go for a CV lens or the new ZM 21 f4.5.
A second possible lens combo would be 24/35/50mm combo, but I have some concerns that I won't be able to see the 24mm framelines wearing glasses, and I would miss out on the wider end with only three lenses. Any thought on this combination versus 21/28/50 would be appreciated. I realize I have to make the final decision on my preferred focal lengths.
If you were starting a kit from scratch would you recommend staying with one lens manufacturer (Leica or Zeiss) for all of your lenses, or would you mix and match?
Any other thought or comments on lens selection would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rog
I think I'd like to start with a 28mm since I should have no trouble seeing the frame lines and this is approximately the same FOV as a 24mm lens on my D100. What are your thought on the Zeiss ZM 28 versus the new Leica 28mm ASPH? How does the size/performance of these two lenses compare?
My next lens would probably be longer. Would it make sense to go to a 50mm next or is a 35mm a great enough change? How does the Zeiss ZM 50 f2 compare to a summicron 50mm ASPH?
My third lens would be wider. If I have a 28mm it seems like I should go for a 21mm even though it goes beyond the viewfinder. The change from 28mm to 24mm or 25mm does not seem that significant to me. I don't know how much I'd use the 21, so I may go for a CV lens or the new ZM 21 f4.5.
A second possible lens combo would be 24/35/50mm combo, but I have some concerns that I won't be able to see the 24mm framelines wearing glasses, and I would miss out on the wider end with only three lenses. Any thought on this combination versus 21/28/50 would be appreciated. I realize I have to make the final decision on my preferred focal lengths.
If you were starting a kit from scratch would you recommend staying with one lens manufacturer (Leica or Zeiss) for all of your lenses, or would you mix and match?
Any other thought or comments on lens selection would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rog
Those all sound good. My choice would be 21, 24 and 35. Te 50 would become a portrait lens for me.
harmsr
M5 Nut
Roger,
Personally, I would start slow. Changing from an SLR to a rangefinder is a significant step.
I think the 28 mm or effective 37 on the M8 is a great starting choice.
Since you are not familiar with the rangefinder, I would really use just the 28 and M8 for awhile first to see what you really prefer for the next lenses. When actually using the M8 you can move the frameline preview lever to see what the other lenses would be like in the view finder. Each persons' preference is very different and at the cost of lenses for an M camera, I would use the frame line preview during actual shooting to see what would be next prior to buying.
Best,
Ray
Personally, I would start slow. Changing from an SLR to a rangefinder is a significant step.
I think the 28 mm or effective 37 on the M8 is a great starting choice.
Since you are not familiar with the rangefinder, I would really use just the 28 and M8 for awhile first to see what you really prefer for the next lenses. When actually using the M8 you can move the frameline preview lever to see what the other lenses would be like in the view finder. Each persons' preference is very different and at the cost of lenses for an M camera, I would use the frame line preview during actual shooting to see what would be next prior to buying.
Best,
Ray
etherfarm
Member
It's a two-lens starter kit for me, with a third hopefully added next year. The choice of lenses was rather simple for me; I'm coming off several years of shooting a Canon 1DmkII, which also has a 1.33 sensor. Looking through my photographs, I see that I use my 17-40 lens the most (usually in the latter half of that range) and my 50 1.4 lens next. I've shot rangefinders before and I know they command a different (often wider) approach to focal length.
A 50mm summicron and a 24 elmarit ASPH, both of which I've already acquired, will be my first lenses, with a 35 cron not too far behind (depending on how quickly I recover from M8 startup costs). I figure 24-35-50 is, at the least, a pretty well-rounded combo, and has the added benefit of not requiring a viewfinder (or guessing, however experienced) on the wide end.
The only other lens I'd like to add to this is a 90 macro, but that'll be a ways off, and much of that will depend on whether or not I keep a DSLR around.
A 50mm summicron and a 24 elmarit ASPH, both of which I've already acquired, will be my first lenses, with a 35 cron not too far behind (depending on how quickly I recover from M8 startup costs). I figure 24-35-50 is, at the least, a pretty well-rounded combo, and has the added benefit of not requiring a viewfinder (or guessing, however experienced) on the wide end.
The only other lens I'd like to add to this is a 90 macro, but that'll be a ways off, and much of that will depend on whether or not I keep a DSLR around.
Mark Norton
Well-known
Ray's advice is good; nothing says you have to have 3 lenses to start with and it's worth getting used to what you have and move on from there. That first choice should at least be made with an eye to the future.
Sticking with Leica (I have no issue with Zeiss but the choices are plentiful enough with Leica)...
If lens speed is an issue: 24 f2.8 (or 28mm f2), 35 f1.4, 50 f1.4
If lens cost/size is an issue: 28mm f2.8, 50mm f2 (or f4), 90mm f4
Other choices: 21mm, 28-35-50 T-E, 75mm Summicron
And: 16-18-21 TE, 35mm, 75mm
The 21mm is looking very expensive these days, especially as the new Tri-Elmar without finder is the same price, roughly.
If I was buying an M8 with one lens, it would have to be the 28mm f2.8, it's a no brainer for size and value.
Sticking with Leica (I have no issue with Zeiss but the choices are plentiful enough with Leica)...
If lens speed is an issue: 24 f2.8 (or 28mm f2), 35 f1.4, 50 f1.4
If lens cost/size is an issue: 28mm f2.8, 50mm f2 (or f4), 90mm f4
Other choices: 21mm, 28-35-50 T-E, 75mm Summicron
And: 16-18-21 TE, 35mm, 75mm
The 21mm is looking very expensive these days, especially as the new Tri-Elmar without finder is the same price, roughly.
If I was buying an M8 with one lens, it would have to be the 28mm f2.8, it's a no brainer for size and value.
MarcoS
R9/DMR . M8 . R-D1
For a not expensive 3 lenses combo I'd probably choose:
15 Voigtlander
28 Elmarit Asph
50 Summicron
But probably my final choice will be:
15 Voigtlander
21 Elmarit Asph
35 Summilux Asph
75 Apo-Summicron Asph
15 Voigtlander
28 Elmarit Asph
50 Summicron
But probably my final choice will be:
15 Voigtlander
21 Elmarit Asph
35 Summilux Asph
75 Apo-Summicron Asph
Leicaiste
Member
My choice will be usually the 28/2 (37mm) and 50/1,4 (66mm).
And only the 35/2 (46mm) if size matter.
The reason I prefer the 28mm is because its frames are paired with those of the 90mm, which make them very comfortable.
The fact that the 24 and 35mm frames are paired together make them more confusing in my opinion.
Lucien
And only the 35/2 (46mm) if size matter.
The reason I prefer the 28mm is because its frames are paired with those of the 90mm, which make them very comfortable.
The fact that the 24 and 35mm frames are paired together make them more confusing in my opinion.
Lucien
Grober
Well-known
If ONLY three:
21 Elmarit
35 Summicron
75 Summicron
Because I already have these three although none are yet 6-bit coded. (Yes, I do lust after the tiny new 28 Elmarit.)
Sold the M7, Motor Drive M, Handcrip M, 90 Apo-Summicron, 135 Tele-Elmar to accumulate enough cash for the M8 already on order.
Picking up a new Canon color printer today (because my old one died); data storage on the PhotoShop computer is already increased.
Am I ready? Let's face it: we all have so much to learn about the intricate manners of the M8 that we probably should attach just ONE lens for the first six months before we even think about spreading our "digital wings" on this new digi-m.
-g
21 Elmarit
35 Summicron
75 Summicron
Because I already have these three although none are yet 6-bit coded. (Yes, I do lust after the tiny new 28 Elmarit.)
Sold the M7, Motor Drive M, Handcrip M, 90 Apo-Summicron, 135 Tele-Elmar to accumulate enough cash for the M8 already on order.
Picking up a new Canon color printer today (because my old one died); data storage on the PhotoShop computer is already increased.
Am I ready? Let's face it: we all have so much to learn about the intricate manners of the M8 that we probably should attach just ONE lens for the first six months before we even think about spreading our "digital wings" on this new digi-m.
-g
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edlaurpic
Established
The importance of size in lens choices
The importance of size in lens choices
I am fortunate to have been able to pick up the 21 2.8 asph, 28 f/2 asph and 35 f1.4 asph when they first came out. However, when I am walking around, bicycling, boating, I almost always opt for smaller lenses than these because, to me, what sets the Leica RF apart (and the R-d1 temporary surrogate for the M8) is its compactness.
One of the things I discovered was that I could use an old lens shade from a 50 summicron on the 35 summicron and not experience any vignetting because of the magnification factor. This may sound stupid, but I would definitely use the 21 2.8 and 28 asph lenses more if they had smaller lens shades. Are there any alternatives for the original lens shades of these lenses? What about using them without shades (which I have never done).
Also, when I recently wanted to have a really compact outfit using the R-d1, I chose a VC 12, VC 21, VC 28 , the 35 summicron asph and a 1954 50 3.5 elmar. This was an incredibly light and compact outfit. I left the little VC 28/35 finder on top (to estimate 21 and 28 frames) except when I wanted to see the full coverage of the 12, in which case I used the 12D VC finder. Amazingly, the clear winner with all of the images I shot was the 50 year old elmar! And it was of course the smallest, lightest by a wide margin.
A major factor in owning the Rd1 and using it and in my having ordered the M8 is its compact size. Otherwise I would be happy to use the 5D, which produces superb images (with a little smart sharpening added), but I tend only to use it when size and weight don't matter.
So I guess the broader question is whether, by using the super compact vc lenses (light gathering aside), one gives up a lot (I have been too lazy to do a direct lens to lens comparison to the leica lenses so far, but maybe that is what I will need to do to get a good handle on the compromises I make when I use the little VC lenses).
I should add that when I have been willing to ignore size and have used the 28 f/2 asph or 21 asph on the rd-1, the results have been terrific, but the experience of carrying the camera with the larger lenses was less pleasant.
Sorry to ramble . . .
comments appreciated
The importance of size in lens choices
I am fortunate to have been able to pick up the 21 2.8 asph, 28 f/2 asph and 35 f1.4 asph when they first came out. However, when I am walking around, bicycling, boating, I almost always opt for smaller lenses than these because, to me, what sets the Leica RF apart (and the R-d1 temporary surrogate for the M8) is its compactness.
One of the things I discovered was that I could use an old lens shade from a 50 summicron on the 35 summicron and not experience any vignetting because of the magnification factor. This may sound stupid, but I would definitely use the 21 2.8 and 28 asph lenses more if they had smaller lens shades. Are there any alternatives for the original lens shades of these lenses? What about using them without shades (which I have never done).
Also, when I recently wanted to have a really compact outfit using the R-d1, I chose a VC 12, VC 21, VC 28 , the 35 summicron asph and a 1954 50 3.5 elmar. This was an incredibly light and compact outfit. I left the little VC 28/35 finder on top (to estimate 21 and 28 frames) except when I wanted to see the full coverage of the 12, in which case I used the 12D VC finder. Amazingly, the clear winner with all of the images I shot was the 50 year old elmar! And it was of course the smallest, lightest by a wide margin.
A major factor in owning the Rd1 and using it and in my having ordered the M8 is its compact size. Otherwise I would be happy to use the 5D, which produces superb images (with a little smart sharpening added), but I tend only to use it when size and weight don't matter.
So I guess the broader question is whether, by using the super compact vc lenses (light gathering aside), one gives up a lot (I have been too lazy to do a direct lens to lens comparison to the leica lenses so far, but maybe that is what I will need to do to get a good handle on the compromises I make when I use the little VC lenses).
I should add that when I have been willing to ignore size and have used the 28 f/2 asph or 21 asph on the rd-1, the results have been terrific, but the experience of carrying the camera with the larger lenses was less pleasant.
Sorry to ramble . . .
comments appreciated
Roger Willco
Member
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
I want to start with one lens and I can't decide if it should be a 28mm or 35mm. I also can't decide if I should go small or fast - 28mm elmarit vs 'cron or 35mm 'cron vs 'lux. Any thoughts on small vs fast? I realize any of these will be smaller than a D100 with a 35mm f2. I've also used a Contax G1 with 45mm Planar and 28mm Biogen, and I'd like to end up with something that's about that size.
My choice of the first lens will impact what I choose to get later. I don't want to go longer than 50mm, but I would like to go wider than 28mm in some situations.
If I start with a 28mm my next lens would probably be a 50mm, since I think a 35mm would be too close to the 28mm. In this case, my third lens would probably be a 21mm, since the 24mm seems too close to the 28mm. This would result in a kit of 21mm/28mm/50mm.
If I start with a 35mm my next lens would be wider either a 24mm or 21mm. My third lens would be a 50mm, so I would end up with either a 21mm/35mm/50mm kit or a 24mm/35mm/50mm kit.
I think that my most used lens would either be 28mm or 35mm. If I start with a 35mm, I could go fast with the 'lux. If I start with a 28mm, I could go small with the Elmarit. Maybe I should get a 28mm Elmarit and a 35mm 'lux, and not worry that the focal lengths are too close.
Choices, choices, choices . . .
Rog
I want to start with one lens and I can't decide if it should be a 28mm or 35mm. I also can't decide if I should go small or fast - 28mm elmarit vs 'cron or 35mm 'cron vs 'lux. Any thoughts on small vs fast? I realize any of these will be smaller than a D100 with a 35mm f2. I've also used a Contax G1 with 45mm Planar and 28mm Biogen, and I'd like to end up with something that's about that size.
My choice of the first lens will impact what I choose to get later. I don't want to go longer than 50mm, but I would like to go wider than 28mm in some situations.
If I start with a 28mm my next lens would probably be a 50mm, since I think a 35mm would be too close to the 28mm. In this case, my third lens would probably be a 21mm, since the 24mm seems too close to the 28mm. This would result in a kit of 21mm/28mm/50mm.
If I start with a 35mm my next lens would be wider either a 24mm or 21mm. My third lens would be a 50mm, so I would end up with either a 21mm/35mm/50mm kit or a 24mm/35mm/50mm kit.
I think that my most used lens would either be 28mm or 35mm. If I start with a 35mm, I could go fast with the 'lux. If I start with a 28mm, I could go small with the Elmarit. Maybe I should get a 28mm Elmarit and a 35mm 'lux, and not worry that the focal lengths are too close.
Choices, choices, choices . . .
Rog
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
If you think a 35 would be too close to a 28, why don't you start with the 24?
I can sympathise with your 'Cron vs 'Lux problem. It had the same agony. In the end I decided for the 35 Summicron asph, not only for its fingerprint, but also for its size. For me the ideal kit is 24 -35 asphSummicron- 75 Summilux. Have fun deciding. It is all part of this hobby!
I can sympathise with your 'Cron vs 'Lux problem. It had the same agony. In the end I decided for the 35 Summicron asph, not only for its fingerprint, but also for its size. For me the ideal kit is 24 -35 asphSummicron- 75 Summilux. Have fun deciding. It is all part of this hobby!
Roger Willco
Member
24mm framelines wearing glasses?
24mm framelines wearing glasses?
Jaapv,
I wear glasses and I'm a little concerned that I won't be able to easily see the 24mm framelines. I had problems seeing all of the 35mm framelines on a friends M7 with 0.72 viewfinder. Also, the 24mm seems larger (I haven't actually handled one). Does anyone know how easy it is to see the 24mm framelines wearing glasses?
Rog
24mm framelines wearing glasses?
Jaapv,
I wear glasses and I'm a little concerned that I won't be able to easily see the 24mm framelines. I had problems seeing all of the 35mm framelines on a friends M7 with 0.72 viewfinder. Also, the 24mm seems larger (I haven't actually handled one). Does anyone know how easy it is to see the 24mm framelines wearing glasses?
Rog
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I wear glasses as well, and the 24 on the M8 was without problem for me, as it still has plenty clearance to the edges.( I played around with the camera for 1/2 an hour)
Roger Willco
Member
Thanks Jaap,
How does the size of the 24mm compare to the size of a 35mm 'cron? Did you get a chance to play with the 28mm Elmarit as well? If so, how does it compare in size?
Rog
How does the size of the 24mm compare to the size of a 35mm 'cron? Did you get a chance to play with the 28mm Elmarit as well? If so, how does it compare in size?
Rog
SnapperJ
Established
I have been reading this thread with interest as I to am switching from a 1D mkII N and have been thinking which lens to buy. Jaapv mentioned the 75 Summilux. This length of lens appleas to me as I like to take candid head shoots. Does the M8 have the correct frame lines for this lens? I am a little confused regarding frame lines and pairs of frame lines can someone explain them for me? Am I right in thinking that the longer the focal length of a lens the smaller the frame lines appear in the rangefinder?
Sorry for all of the questions I have not owned a Leica since 1976.
Sorry for all of the questions I have not owned a Leica since 1976.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
SnapperJ said:
Yes it has 75 mm framelines . The viewfinder displays the FOV of every lens in pairs: 50/75, 35/90 and 24/28 in an unchanging finder.
JohnL
Very confused
All my M-mount lenses are CV, and for cost benefit reasons, that's likely to continue to be the case for some time. I've been thinking about this issue for a while. If I do summon up the courage for the M8, I think my carry lenses will be:
21/4 (and use the full VF area, rather than an accessory VF);
28/3.5 (which I already have)
35/2.5.
I'd need to buy the 21 and the 35.
I'm doubtful I'd carry the 50/2.5 or the 90/3.5 that I already have, unless there were some good reason to for specific situations. At night or indoors I'd probably use the 35/1.2 I already have, depending on the high ISO performance of the M8.
21/4 (and use the full VF area, rather than an accessory VF);
28/3.5 (which I already have)
35/2.5.
I'd need to buy the 21 and the 35.
I'm doubtful I'd carry the 50/2.5 or the 90/3.5 that I already have, unless there were some good reason to for specific situations. At night or indoors I'd probably use the 35/1.2 I already have, depending on the high ISO performance of the M8.
B&W Norway
Established
Roger Willco said:
24/35/50 = nice combo/choice
I don 't have a 24 but a 28/35/50 and use the 35 and 50 most of the time....
Good luck!
Roger Willco
Member
28mm and 50mm for M8. Leica or Zeiss lenses?
28mm and 50mm for M8. Leica or Zeiss lenses?
I've decided on two focal lengths to start with on the M8. I will use the 28mm most often and the 50mm as a portrait lens. Now the questions are Leica or Zeiss glass and faster/larger/more expensive or slower/smaller/less expensive lenses. (Price are based on the popflash website).
Option 1:
Zeiss ZM 28mm f2.8 + Zeiss ZM 50mm f2.0 + 2 hoods = $1570
versus
Leica 28mm f2.8 ASPH Elmarit + 50mm f2.0 Summicron (used mint) = approximately $2600
Option 2 for a faster 50mm:
Zeiss ZM 28mm f2.8 + Zeiss ZM 50mm f1.5 + 2 hoods = $1937
versus
Leica 28mm f2.8 ASPH Elmarit + 50mm f1.4 Summilux (used mint) = approximately $3800
Option 3 for faster still:
Leica 28mm f2.0 ASPH Summicron + 50mm f2.0 Summicron (both used mint) = approximately $3500
Leica 28mm f2.0 ASPH Summicron + 50mm f1.4 Summilux (both used mint) = approximately $4700
I know everything is a trade off, but what do you think? I'm particularly interested in comparison of the quality and build of Zeiss an Leica lens. I've read Sean Reids reviews in Luminous Landscape, and I'm about to subscribe to his web reviews.
Thanks,
Rog
28mm and 50mm for M8. Leica or Zeiss lenses?
I've decided on two focal lengths to start with on the M8. I will use the 28mm most often and the 50mm as a portrait lens. Now the questions are Leica or Zeiss glass and faster/larger/more expensive or slower/smaller/less expensive lenses. (Price are based on the popflash website).
Option 1:
Zeiss ZM 28mm f2.8 + Zeiss ZM 50mm f2.0 + 2 hoods = $1570
versus
Leica 28mm f2.8 ASPH Elmarit + 50mm f2.0 Summicron (used mint) = approximately $2600
Option 2 for a faster 50mm:
Zeiss ZM 28mm f2.8 + Zeiss ZM 50mm f1.5 + 2 hoods = $1937
versus
Leica 28mm f2.8 ASPH Elmarit + 50mm f1.4 Summilux (used mint) = approximately $3800
Option 3 for faster still:
Leica 28mm f2.0 ASPH Summicron + 50mm f2.0 Summicron (both used mint) = approximately $3500
Leica 28mm f2.0 ASPH Summicron + 50mm f1.4 Summilux (both used mint) = approximately $4700
I know everything is a trade off, but what do you think? I'm particularly interested in comparison of the quality and build of Zeiss an Leica lens. I've read Sean Reids reviews in Luminous Landscape, and I'm about to subscribe to his web reviews.
Thanks,
Rog