photorat
Registered Abuser
Like many here, I feel myself increasingly drawn to the dark side of the force, away from Leicaphillic 35mm and towards medium format. 120 RF seems to be out of my price range which leaves the Hasselblad style waist level SLRs or the Rolleiflex route of the TLR.
(I also love low angle photography and after years of trying various waist level finder options for my M2, I think I should also just get real and get a camera that was built with a reflex finder. Which was also my reasoning behind getting a Nikon F3 for macro work instead of stuffing around with bellows and visoflexes.)
Hence my question: Which way at this fork in the road? I know that twin lens cameras have the advantage of being smoother and quieter in operation (no mirror slapping about) but I guess what you gain in a steadier camera is taken away by the extra bulk/weight of the extra lens and body to house it?
I suspect I would be using it mainly for portraiture but with available light (I don't have a studio) and possibly for wedding portraits if I get the hang of it. Easy to focus is a key criterion and of course overall image quality.
Thanks in advance for any comments.
(I also love low angle photography and after years of trying various waist level finder options for my M2, I think I should also just get real and get a camera that was built with a reflex finder. Which was also my reasoning behind getting a Nikon F3 for macro work instead of stuffing around with bellows and visoflexes.)
Hence my question: Which way at this fork in the road? I know that twin lens cameras have the advantage of being smoother and quieter in operation (no mirror slapping about) but I guess what you gain in a steadier camera is taken away by the extra bulk/weight of the extra lens and body to house it?
I suspect I would be using it mainly for portraiture but with available light (I don't have a studio) and possibly for wedding portraits if I get the hang of it. Easy to focus is a key criterion and of course overall image quality.
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I have a Hasselblad. I also have a very ancient pre-war Rolleiflex that needs a CLA. I love square format! I can tell you that a Hasselblad with a film back and the standard 80mm CF lens is a lot heavier than a Rolleiflex. If you can afford one of the nicer Rollei models, like a 3.5F, you'll have a small, light, easy to focus and quick to operate camera that has incredible image quality and is usable for street photography.
I have a Hasselblad instead of a later-model Rollei (my ancient one is not usable now, needs serviced) because I needed interchangeable lenses and quick operation was not important to me for what I use the camera for (architecture, landscapes).
My advice is if you need or want interchangeable lenses and don't mind working mostly on a tripod, get an SLR. If you need fast operation, candid work, and want a lightweight easy to handhold camera, get a Rollei.
Someone will probably mention the Mamiya TLR cameras. They have interchangeable lenses, but they're heavy and big, more so than a Hasselblad. I had a C330F when I was in college and did some great work with it, but it was less handholdable and slower to operate than the Hasselblad I got later and the lenses weren't even in the same league. The lenses I had were sharp, very sharp, in the center and good in the edges but quite soft in the extreme corners. My Hasselblad's lenses are uniformly sharp even in the corners.
I have a Hasselblad instead of a later-model Rollei (my ancient one is not usable now, needs serviced) because I needed interchangeable lenses and quick operation was not important to me for what I use the camera for (architecture, landscapes).
My advice is if you need or want interchangeable lenses and don't mind working mostly on a tripod, get an SLR. If you need fast operation, candid work, and want a lightweight easy to handhold camera, get a Rollei.
Someone will probably mention the Mamiya TLR cameras. They have interchangeable lenses, but they're heavy and big, more so than a Hasselblad. I had a C330F when I was in college and did some great work with it, but it was less handholdable and slower to operate than the Hasselblad I got later and the lenses weren't even in the same league. The lenses I had were sharp, very sharp, in the center and good in the edges but quite soft in the extreme corners. My Hasselblad's lenses are uniformly sharp even in the corners.
eli griggs
Well-known
Hasselblad all the way. You can grow the system as you like/need and the glass is wonderful. A rapid-wind crank makes for smooth, fast film advancement and the viewfinder choices are very good.
Shooting portraiture is easier if you can slap on a new back while you and the model are in the flow and having a fast choice of film types midstream is nothing to sneeze about. Being able, for example to shoot one set-up with half a roll of b&w, switch to colour and then do the same for another set-up without wasting film can be important, especially if you work without assistance.
Less time fooling with the loading and unloading of film is important time you can spend focusing on the model, lighting, etc.
Also, if you're of a mind to shoot long roll film, a 70 frame, 70mm back and a few of the large cassettes can be a real convenience.
Cheers
Cheers
Shooting portraiture is easier if you can slap on a new back while you and the model are in the flow and having a fast choice of film types midstream is nothing to sneeze about. Being able, for example to shoot one set-up with half a roll of b&w, switch to colour and then do the same for another set-up without wasting film can be important, especially if you work without assistance.
Less time fooling with the loading and unloading of film is important time you can spend focusing on the model, lighting, etc.
Also, if you're of a mind to shoot long roll film, a 70 frame, 70mm back and a few of the large cassettes can be a real convenience.
Cheers
Cheers
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FrankS
Registered User
The deals on MF gear are mouth watering these days. Like a GS 6x7 SLR with prism finder for less than $500. (No connection, just as an example.)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bronica-GS-1-Ou...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:10|39:1|240:1318
I've got a Hasselblad, a Rolleiflex, and some RF MF cameras so I'm all set.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bronica-GS-1-Ou...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:10|39:1|240:1318
I've got a Hasselblad, a Rolleiflex, and some RF MF cameras so I'm all set.
Austerby
Well-known
i have a Yashicamat 124g that I bought brand new as a callow youth some twenty five years ago (having had a Lubitel beforehand) but to be honest haven't used it all that much. I like it but I've not really valued its subtlety perhaps. In a moment of weakness a couple of years ago I bought a Hasselblad as I do really like MF and WLFs as I find the style of shooting and photographs taken quite different from 35mm. I love the clunkiness of the 500cm - it is a great machine and a world apart from the almost anti-climactic subtlety of the TLR. However, I only have the one lens and one back so am beginning to wonder if I should dust off the Yashicamat as it does everything I want in a smaller, lighter, quieter package - but it's not a Hasselblad and the lens isn't a Zeiss...
martin s
Well-known
Where could I get one of those? I've been wondering for some time.
martin
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Where can you get what, a Hasselblad, or a rapid wind crank? The cranks came standard on later Hasselblads (earlier ones came with a winding knob), but you can get the crank on ebay and put it on an older Hasselblad in place of the knob.
martin s
Well-known
Sorry for not properly quoting, I meant the crank. I've been looking for some time now, nothing showed up on the German ebay yet.
martin
martin
bastian a.
Well-known
I have and use both, a Hasselblad and four Rolleiflexes.
If you have to choose one and if one lens (75mm or 80mm) is enough for you, go for a Rolleiflex. It is not as heavy as the Hasselblad, more compact, the lens quality is the same (if you have a rolleiflex model with zeiss planar/schneider xenotar), doesn't make any noise, longer shutter speeds are possible without a tripod ....
I like my Hasselblad very much but if I could choose one 6x6 camera with only one lens, I would take a Rolleiflex 3,5F/2,8F.
B.
If you have to choose one and if one lens (75mm or 80mm) is enough for you, go for a Rolleiflex. It is not as heavy as the Hasselblad, more compact, the lens quality is the same (if you have a rolleiflex model with zeiss planar/schneider xenotar), doesn't make any noise, longer shutter speeds are possible without a tripod ....
I like my Hasselblad very much but if I could choose one 6x6 camera with only one lens, I would take a Rolleiflex 3,5F/2,8F.
B.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
I have both types...a Yashica Mat 124 and a Mamiya 645 (with 55, 80, 110, 150 & 210 lenses) and have been using BOTH almost side by side for the past half year (pulled the 124 out of the closet and now using it)
I love them both, they both produce wonderful images and both are very different in using them...
The Mamiya has the Prism Finder not the Waist Level Finder...and I can switch between the different lenses...
The Yashica has a fixed 80mm lens but does produce negs that have a look to them that the Mamiya does not...Some may think that the fixed lens on the Yashica may limit how you can shoot BUT I believe it causes one to think more about how to use and shoot with this camera...
I don't find many limits with either system and have used both in many situations...
Maybe start with a TLR body (an entry level $$$ model) and see if this is your cup of tea...if not then you haven't spent too much on this venture...if it does work for you then maybe invest in a better/faster body...
If the TLR experience doesn't work then try a SLR...either with a Prism or WL Finder...the nice thing about the SLR system you can add to it as you need to...start with the basics then add to it as you learn it...
I love them both, they both produce wonderful images and both are very different in using them...
The Mamiya has the Prism Finder not the Waist Level Finder...and I can switch between the different lenses...
The Yashica has a fixed 80mm lens but does produce negs that have a look to them that the Mamiya does not...Some may think that the fixed lens on the Yashica may limit how you can shoot BUT I believe it causes one to think more about how to use and shoot with this camera...
I don't find many limits with either system and have used both in many situations...
Maybe start with a TLR body (an entry level $$$ model) and see if this is your cup of tea...if not then you haven't spent too much on this venture...if it does work for you then maybe invest in a better/faster body...
If the TLR experience doesn't work then try a SLR...either with a Prism or WL Finder...the nice thing about the SLR system you can add to it as you need to...start with the basics then add to it as you learn it...
W
Way
Guest
I have a Hassy 500C/M and a Rolleiflex 2.8f. The Rollei is definitely quieter so if that is important then the Rollei is a the best choice. With the Hassy you can change lenses and backs making it more versatile but of course that adds up to more $$. After using both on and off, I find the Rollei a bit "fiddly" and a bit cumbersome to carry. There are knobs sticking out on the sides that I find tends to get caught on things. IMO, all the delicate parts seem to be "exposed" so it would be best to use it with the hard leather case, which adds bulk. The Hassy is stocky yet sleek, though heavy, built like a tank. To me it's more ergonomic than the Rollei. YMMV.
Just did some weighing and here are the results:
Hassy with 120 back and 80mm planar - 1475g
Rollei 2.8f - 1256g
Rollei with leather hardcase attached - 1512
So a nude Rolei is lighter than the Hassy but when you add the hard leather case it is heavier than the Hassy.
Just did some weighing and here are the results:
Hassy with 120 back and 80mm planar - 1475g
Rollei 2.8f - 1256g
Rollei with leather hardcase attached - 1512
So a nude Rolei is lighter than the Hassy but when you add the hard leather case it is heavier than the Hassy.
Krosya
Konicaze
I had tried several TLRs - a couple of Rolleis, Yashicas, Ricoh ( a great camera, I liked it better than others), yet went back to SLR/RF for MF. Just works better for me - faster with lots more options, like lenses, finders, macro, etc. In some way some of those things are availible for Rollei TLRs as well, but more fiddly. Image quality is great with either. So, I'd try TLR, see if it's for you. Some go pretty cheap. And if not - MF SLR market is full of choices.
sfj
Member
I've used Pentax SLRs for decades, but recently emulated my father's explorations 50 years ago with a Yashica-Mat, and decided to get a Mamiyaflex C2 and, soon afterward, a 180mm lens and pentaprism finder for it. I really like the square format, the high resolution images, and the peaceful, intentional composition required. The Mamiya TLRs have a wide range of accessories and are less expensive and more versatile than other MF TLRs and SLRs. The waist-level finder and normal lens are perfect for low-angle shots, and the pentaprism and telephoto lens are ideal for critically focused images.
novum
Well-known
I use a Rolleiflex 6006 with a new PQ 80/2.8, a Super Ricohflex, and a Minolta Autocord I. The Autocord is my favorite--unbelievable combination of image resolution and creamy, romantic out-of-focus areas. It has had a fairly recent CLA, so the focusing helicoid is buttery smooth. Hmm, butter and cream. I haven't eaten all day.
Jay Decker
Meat Robot
Tried to really hard to make medium format RF's and TLR's work for portraiture, but they came up short for me. The bullet is that the medium format RF's did not focus close enough for tight or intimate portraiture and the TRL's did not have long enough glass unless you went to something like Mamiya C330 with a 180mm lens (this combo works great, but a MF SLR is more manageable).
I use a Bronica SQ-Ai with 180mm lens that focuses quite close for images like those below. Pay attention to how close the lenses focus... if you don't you might not be able to get an intimate portrait unless you use an extension ring, which can be a PITA to put on and take off.
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Vics
Veteran
Rollei TLR with any Tessar type lens. (The four-element type.) I love both of mine, but I'm going to sell them as I never use them anymore. I'm all about the Leica now.
Vic
Vic
aizan
Veteran
either will get the job done. the important thing is to try them out yourself. i got a rolleiflex 2.8e2 for the better handholding, but it turns out i need to use a tripod most of the time, and i don't like the stock focusing screen at all. new maxwell screens cost $200 these days.
once, i borrowed a hasselblad 501cm, and the non-returning mirror drove me crazy when i used it handheld. it wasn't bothersome on a tripod, though! i decided to get something with an instant-return mirror, so the choice came down to the hassy 553elx or the rollei 6008i, and the rollei won out.
then i wanted to try 6x7...
i'd take advantage of keh's great return policy. for the cost of shipping, you can effectively rent anything for 10 days.
once, i borrowed a hasselblad 501cm, and the non-returning mirror drove me crazy when i used it handheld. it wasn't bothersome on a tripod, though! i decided to get something with an instant-return mirror, so the choice came down to the hassy 553elx or the rollei 6008i, and the rollei won out.
then i wanted to try 6x7...
i'd take advantage of keh's great return policy. for the cost of shipping, you can effectively rent anything for 10 days.
ChrisN
Striving
Interesting comparisons above! I've just acquired a Mamiya C330f, so I read Chris's comments on the lenses with interest. I've only shot a single roll so far by way of testing the light seals (which did need replacing) and basic functions so I will be looking carefully at the corners after I've shot and scanned some negatives.
Three factors to consider when comparing Hassy with C330f: close-focusing range, all-up weight of a kit with lenses, and cost.
While the C330f with a normal (80/2.8) lens is heavier than a Hassy with same, once you add another lens the balance starts to tip in favour of the TLR. There a comparison of system weights here.
The price of Hassy gear is holding up relatively well in the medium format world. At KEH an EXE+ chrome Hasselblad 50/4 lens lists for $789, while a black (later) Mamiya 55/4.5 EXE+ lists at $379. These are both system cameras, with lots of useful accessories. The available range of Hasselblad kit is probably greater but the prices are higher.
And finally don't forget the C330's party trick - close focusing. With the lens racked all the way forward you can focus on a subject just 185mm from the front of the lens. With the Hassy it's more like 800mm - you'll need extension tubes to start to get near the C330's close focusing ability. Of course with the C330 you have to manage the parallax correction issue, but that's just a matter of lifting the camera 50mm, either with the paramender accessory or by raising the tripod column 50mm. And yes - that does imply a tripod will be essential for close work - granted.
Oh, the Mamiya viewfinder is brighter and sharper, too, compared with my 500c/m. I know I could buy an AcuteMat D viewfinder screen, but sellers want half the price I paid for the C330!
Choice is good!
Three factors to consider when comparing Hassy with C330f: close-focusing range, all-up weight of a kit with lenses, and cost.
While the C330f with a normal (80/2.8) lens is heavier than a Hassy with same, once you add another lens the balance starts to tip in favour of the TLR. There a comparison of system weights here.
The price of Hassy gear is holding up relatively well in the medium format world. At KEH an EXE+ chrome Hasselblad 50/4 lens lists for $789, while a black (later) Mamiya 55/4.5 EXE+ lists at $379. These are both system cameras, with lots of useful accessories. The available range of Hasselblad kit is probably greater but the prices are higher.
And finally don't forget the C330's party trick - close focusing. With the lens racked all the way forward you can focus on a subject just 185mm from the front of the lens. With the Hassy it's more like 800mm - you'll need extension tubes to start to get near the C330's close focusing ability. Of course with the C330 you have to manage the parallax correction issue, but that's just a matter of lifting the camera 50mm, either with the paramender accessory or by raising the tripod column 50mm. And yes - that does imply a tripod will be essential for close work - granted.
Oh, the Mamiya viewfinder is brighter and sharper, too, compared with my 500c/m. I know I could buy an AcuteMat D viewfinder screen, but sellers want half the price I paid for the C330!
Choice is good!
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Sanders McNew
Rolleiflex User
I have to disagree. Use a Rolleinar
on a Rolleiflex and you're close. How
close do you want to get?
I shoot Rolleiflexes for portraiture
all the time -- go to my Flickr page
at www.flickr.com/sandersnyc for
many examples, tight and otherwise.
One huge benefit of the Rolleiflex TLRs
over the Hasselblad when photographing
people is the continuous view you get
through the Rolleiflex's finder. The
Hasselblad's finder goes dark after you
trip the shutter until you wind on to the
next frame. If you're shooting quickly,
the break in vision will slow you up.
Sanders
Jay Decker
Meat Robot
Superb photo! And, all the photos of the women on your Flicker site make me feel like learn a little of their story through your photographs - very well done!
Would you please tell us more about how you get these excellent portrait results, e.g., camera model, lens, closeup lens, etc.?