jaimiepeeters
Well-known
Hi guys
I'm new to this forum so be kind
A little intro to explain my topic question. I have been shooting models for little over 3 years with an SLR and noticed that I love photography so much I dont want to wait until I can shoot models. I want to shoot every day. So I sold my 7D and bought myself a Fuji X100. Loving it even though it's a bit slow.
Along the way I started to teach myself as much as I can about photography, other than digital in the studio with an Elinchrom light set. So I started buying film camera's and even fell more in love with photography. I purchased a Leica Minilux and a Yashica T4 (besides some other cameras like Canonet, Nikon F4, Nikon N90, Nikon F90x, Polaroid 101 and Polaroid 600).
Since I've plunged myself into the realm of film photography I felt strongly drawn to street photography. But on the street I notice that the Minilux has a way too small viewfinder (although the images are sharp as xxx) and the Yashica's viewfinder is in the middle, which makes me search for it when I quickly want to make that shot. Also.. they are both fully automatic... and I've always shot on M, so I like to keep full control.
Ok.. so I've reached that point where I'm looking for a film camera that I can use on the street, makes sharp images as the Minilux does, light in weight, quick to focus, viewfinder in the corner and doesn't scare the people I want to shoot on the street.
Everybody will say Leica M .. but, since I don't have that kind of money at this particular moment, I'm looking for an alternative. I saw somebody talk about the CL somewhere, and that got me curious.
So , now you guys know what I'm after, where I am and where I want to be... please share your thoughts, advice and comments.
ps: I've seen a couple of CL's for about 450-550 euro (netherlands).
I'm new to this forum so be kind
A little intro to explain my topic question. I have been shooting models for little over 3 years with an SLR and noticed that I love photography so much I dont want to wait until I can shoot models. I want to shoot every day. So I sold my 7D and bought myself a Fuji X100. Loving it even though it's a bit slow.
Along the way I started to teach myself as much as I can about photography, other than digital in the studio with an Elinchrom light set. So I started buying film camera's and even fell more in love with photography. I purchased a Leica Minilux and a Yashica T4 (besides some other cameras like Canonet, Nikon F4, Nikon N90, Nikon F90x, Polaroid 101 and Polaroid 600).
Since I've plunged myself into the realm of film photography I felt strongly drawn to street photography. But on the street I notice that the Minilux has a way too small viewfinder (although the images are sharp as xxx) and the Yashica's viewfinder is in the middle, which makes me search for it when I quickly want to make that shot. Also.. they are both fully automatic... and I've always shot on M, so I like to keep full control.
Ok.. so I've reached that point where I'm looking for a film camera that I can use on the street, makes sharp images as the Minilux does, light in weight, quick to focus, viewfinder in the corner and doesn't scare the people I want to shoot on the street.
Everybody will say Leica M .. but, since I don't have that kind of money at this particular moment, I'm looking for an alternative. I saw somebody talk about the CL somewhere, and that got me curious.
So , now you guys know what I'm after, where I am and where I want to be... please share your thoughts, advice and comments.
ps: I've seen a couple of CL's for about 450-550 euro (netherlands).
Meakin
Established
Welcome!
I know you don't want to hear this - But I would still get a user M2/3, and they are in your price range (there is an m2 on the big auction site in germany right now for 380 Euro) - You are learning to shoot film and street, what would be better than to do that with a fully manual camera and maybe a hand held light meter?
My 2 euros YMMV
EDIT: alternatively - have a look at the Konica Hexar AF, some say the perfect street shooter.
Cheers,
/Meakin
I know you don't want to hear this - But I would still get a user M2/3, and they are in your price range (there is an m2 on the big auction site in germany right now for 380 Euro) - You are learning to shoot film and street, what would be better than to do that with a fully manual camera and maybe a hand held light meter?
My 2 euros
YMMVEDIT: alternatively - have a look at the Konica Hexar AF, some say the perfect street shooter.
Cheers,
/Meakin
jaimiepeeters
Well-known
Welcome!
I know you don't want to hear this - But I would still get a user M2/3, and they are in your price range (there is an m2 on the big auction site in germany right now for 380 Euro) - You are learning to shoot film and street, what would be better than to do that with a fully manual camera and maybe a hand held light meter?
My 2 euros
EDIT: alternatively - have a look at the Konica Hexar AF, some say the perfect street shooter.
Cheers,
/Meakin
I would love to go for an M2.. but it does need a lens too
and those are also another 500€... correct?presspass
filmshooter
The CL is a wonderful camera but getting a bit long in the tooth and not easy to repair. The M2s and M3s are usually as cheap, easier to repair, and take any lens with an M mount or adapter. There are lenses - early 28s, Super Angulon 21s, etc., that cannot be used on the CL because they foul the meter arm.
Meakin
Established
Not necessarily - the CV (cosina voigtlander) lenses are very very good, also some have taken amazing shots with eastern block lenses - ad a screw mount to M adaptor and you are good to go
/Meakin
/Meakin
As are the CV Bessa cameras. Every bit as capable as a CL without being 40 years old.
Meakin
Established
jaimiepeeters
Well-known
Is the Konica Hexar really that well of an alternative?
And the Bessar... ?
in what order would those 4 score?
M2, CL, Hexar, Bessar...
And the Bessar... ?
in what order would those 4 score?
M2, CL, Hexar, Bessar...
taskoni
Well-known
M2, Hexar, Bessa, CL...
Get an M2.
Get an M2.
MPerson
Established
You'll get similar advice as you got on the Leica User Forum.
rbelyell
Well-known
ive found in trying to get 'that' shot, its great if the camera does the metering, one thing less i have to worry about in a street setting. if thats an important consideration, and 40mm framelines are also, then the menu becomes shorter, cl or rollei rf if you want something newer in that price range.
jaimiepeeters
Well-known
Not too sure about that. Different mindset. Nobody really talked about the Hexar and Bessar over there.
Meakin
Established
This ,I am afraid - I can not answer. None of the 4 you mentioned above are "better" than others - they are all good, all have there strengths - all have there weaknesses (be it price, size, metering,age etc etc.)
It all depends on A: what you want, B: what you need (often not the same thing) and C: what you can afford/willing to pay.
This is something only you can answer.
I only have hands on experience with the hexar and M series of the 4 mentioned in this thread (fondled the Bessa)
Hexar is great if you can live with only 35mm - great lens, very very silent + many other good things, but also electronic, slow top shutter speed and about the same size as an M series body.
The M series...is the M series ( I'll leave the Hallelujah's to others) is a great camera - they all are, just remember that they are a tool for a job. The pleasure that many (myself included) find in using a tool that they find fitting ,well made, just right etc etc. is just an extra bonus!
no more rambling from me now.
Cheers,
Meakin
excellent
Well-known
No support for the CL? damn.
I'm here to give you a vote on getting a CL.
I had one for years and absolutely loved it. True spot metering, compact, hot shoe, takes any M or M39 w adapter, small in size, no red dot = no stares.
I would ignore the comment about getting it repaired, I doubt you are looking to buy a broken camera. My guess is a CLA addict.
Camera and lens is only a few hundred euros. Good luck even getting another M lens at that price.
My advice. GET IT!
I'm here to give you a vote on getting a CL.
I had one for years and absolutely loved it. True spot metering, compact, hot shoe, takes any M or M39 w adapter, small in size, no red dot = no stares.
I would ignore the comment about getting it repaired, I doubt you are looking to buy a broken camera. My guess is a CLA addict.
Camera and lens is only a few hundred euros. Good luck even getting another M lens at that price.
My advice. GET IT!
d_c
Established
You could also look at the Minolta CLE - it's nice and light, gives you a reasonable spread of focal lengths in the viewfinder - 28, 40 and 90 - and it handles really nicely. Only drawback might be that it's an aperture priority camera - fully manual is a bit tricky. Everything else is manual. If you find one in good condition it generally goes for about the same as a CLE.
panerai
Well-known
Does the 450-500 Euro include lens or just the camera?
You can buy a CL with none working meter and use the sunny 16 rule or buy a separate light meter and save a bit that way
I prefer the Minolta Rokkor 40mm lens over the Leica Summicron as it's easier to find filters that fit properly and any type of hood you like that fits the threads of the lens.
I like the CL, but don't use it as much as I should. Tend to have my Panasonic LX3 on hand as it's a little more functional
DON
You can buy a CL with none working meter and use the sunny 16 rule or buy a separate light meter and save a bit that way
I prefer the Minolta Rokkor 40mm lens over the Leica Summicron as it's easier to find filters that fit properly and any type of hood you like that fits the threads of the lens.
I like the CL, but don't use it as much as I should. Tend to have my Panasonic LX3 on hand as it's a little more functional
DON
lic4
Well-known
I second the CLE for your budget range. It's light, better build quality than the CL, has longer base length for more accurate focus, and has normal strap lugs. It's about the same in price as the CL.
If you get a CL, try to get one with a serial number higher than 14xxxxx
The earlier ones have fewer upgrades done on them.
If you want a P&S that has a better VF than the Minilux and better manual features, then it's either the Leica CM (same lens as the Minilux), Fuji Klasse S, or Contax T. I like the Klasse S for its lens and camera size.
If you get a CL, try to get one with a serial number higher than 14xxxxx
The earlier ones have fewer upgrades done on them.
If you want a P&S that has a better VF than the Minilux and better manual features, then it's either the Leica CM (same lens as the Minilux), Fuji Klasse S, or Contax T. I like the Klasse S for its lens and camera size.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
I really love my CL, but the M2/M3/M4 are also a good choice. Also, the CLE is a great camera, but the M's are easier to get repaired than the CL or CLE.
nzeeman
Well-known
i think you should try and go for a second hand bessa r (it goes i think down to 250 eur) or bessa r2 . if you take bessa r - yes it is only screw mount but it leave you enough money to buy some older lenses - you can get all canon ltm lenses, russian ones and even old leica lenses like early summicrons or summarit..
and also - it is better not too put too much money in gear if you dont know if it will fulfill your needs. try out with cheaper stuff see if RF is good for you and your style for a few years and then upgrade according to needs..
and also - it is better not too put too much money in gear if you dont know if it will fulfill your needs. try out with cheaper stuff see if RF is good for you and your style for a few years and then upgrade according to needs..
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I'm not trying to be rude but your specification "... a film camera that I can use on the street, makes sharp images as the Minilux does, light in weight, quick to focus, viewfinder in the corner and doesn't scare the people I want to shoot on the street... " doesn't really point to a Leica M, does it?
The Canonet would do and you own one. Or the Olympus XA, XA2, XA3 or µ-II, Konica A4, Pentax ESPIO mini and so on.
I guess you left out interchangeable lenses and a couple RF? In which case I'll vote for the M2 and CL. The CLE's OK but is electronic and needs batteries and back up if the thing needs a repair. And can they be repaired? The M2 and Cl have specialised repairers all over the world and are reasonably priced, imo.
Of course, the CLE gives you 28mm frame-lines and a nice 28mm lens and if you wanted 28mm then the alternatives become the M6 and M7 and the prices go up and up. (Probably the M4 etc, too, but I can never remember the frame-lines.)
Regards, David
I'm not trying to be rude but your specification "... a film camera that I can use on the street, makes sharp images as the Minilux does, light in weight, quick to focus, viewfinder in the corner and doesn't scare the people I want to shoot on the street... " doesn't really point to a Leica M, does it?
The Canonet would do and you own one. Or the Olympus XA, XA2, XA3 or µ-II, Konica A4, Pentax ESPIO mini and so on.
I guess you left out interchangeable lenses and a couple RF? In which case I'll vote for the M2 and CL. The CLE's OK but is electronic and needs batteries and back up if the thing needs a repair. And can they be repaired? The M2 and Cl have specialised repairers all over the world and are reasonably priced, imo.
Of course, the CLE gives you 28mm frame-lines and a nice 28mm lens and if you wanted 28mm then the alternatives become the M6 and M7 and the prices go up and up. (Probably the M4 etc, too, but I can never remember the frame-lines.)
Regards, David