trading bessa r3m for a cl

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PhillipAbbott

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I've read through some older threads of comparisons between the bessa and leica cl, but none of them seem to address my concerns.

I currently own a bessa r3m with nokton 40 and color skopar 25. I love the results of the bessa and the viewfinder's excellent, but in all honesty the placement of the strap lugs is completely idiotic. For me, that's the main reason for a change (and I don't want to buy a side grip that will add to the size of the camera just to make it hang a little less awkward.) I'd really just like to be able to walk around with my camera around my neck for more than 15 minutes without losing my mind.

It seems like the cl makes more sense to me for the following reasons:
m mount
40 mm framelines
vertical strap lugs !!!!
build quality
smaller size
mechanical shutter (like the bessa)

And people seem to complain that the vf/rf aren't nearly as good, but I absolutely love my xa and I can't imagine that the cl's vf/rf would be any worse than that. I'm basically imagining the cl as a slightly larger xa with an m mount, better build, and full manual control.

Is there anything else that I could be overlooking or really sacrificing by swapping out my r3m?
 
A CL with the 40 is quite different from an XA: a lot bigger: twice as thick, has no AE, and is old and its meter can give more problems and sooner, and loading is harder, and doesn't have a +1.5 instant switch. A CLE is a nicer tool.

I got the side grip for one of my Bessas, and apart from hanging fine, it's a lot more comfortable for shooting than box shaped cameras. At least Bessas have that great grip because of their back design...

Or get a CL: a friend says he's always happy because loading it gives him time for reading its name... :) I have to try that with my IIIF...

Cheers,

Juan
 
The Voigtlander side grip adds very little in the way of size or weight. Even the trigger winder is pretty compact.

Having said that, side-mounted lugs are pretty awkward for carrying the camera slung around one's neck. They work better when having the strap over the shoulder; but then the strap slips down every time one raises the body to one's eye. Sooner or later it dawns that, when shooting, the best place for a side-mounted sling is wrapped around one's wrist.
 
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The CL is the one Leica I wouldn't trade a CV rangefinder for... and while the Bessa's lugs are silly, the vertical lugs on the CL can be just as annoying depending on how you plan to use a strap.
 
I gotta agree here. Having owned a CL, the lug straps to me were always pain mostly since grabbing the camera was odd when the camera is vertical.

As for size, it's one of the smallest, but the layout of the controls is fantastic and you'll never find yourself lowering the camera to change shutter speed. The meter is kind of backwards, but very easily readable and easy to use. The M5 though still has the over all best meter to use.

jsrockit said:
The CL is the one Leica I wouldn't trade a CV rangefinder for... and while the Bessa's lugs are silly, the vertical lugs on the CL can be just as annoying depending on how you plan to use a strap.
Click to expand...
 
I would ask my doctor to increase my medications before selling a Bessa for a CL because the Bessa hung wrong.
 
Phillip: to be fair and clear, I was just joking a bit... If you have the Bessa, and you do have it, it's because you like tools and not just brands... And we all like the great brand because of the superb gear they've made for nearly a century... The CL may not be that bad, but maybe it's one of the weakest Leicas...

Cheers,

Juan
 
While CLs are nice and compact, they are not as robust as you think. They ding and dent quite easily. I have owned 3 of them, and they seem to ding and dent on their own. Even sitting in a padded camera bag!
 
According to some, the Minolta CL almost put Leica out of business (then again the M5 might have done that too)

Juan Valdenebro said:
Phillip: to be fair and clear, I was just joking a bit... If you have the Bessa, and you do have it, it's because you like tools and not just brands... And we all like the great brand because of the superb gear they've made for nearly a century... The CL may not be that bad, but maybe it's one of the weakest Leicas...

Cheers,

Juan
Click to expand...
 
The CL sold well at the time. The M5 did not. The M5 is more popular now, then when it was introduced.
 
I have a Bessa-T bought a halfcase for it. Now it is hanging fine.
I also have a Leica CL, I wouldn´t trade my Bessa for a CL.
Even my Bessa-T is a faster camera to work with, easier to focus and having a reliable lightmeter, which can be used before focussing.
The CL is the smaller handy camera though, nice to use with a scale focus 25mm Skopar.
 
You all make some valid points, but still haven't really addressed my concerns (or i might just be too stubborn to want to hear it.) I'll try to make my motivations a little more clear.
I've never held or used a leica, so comparing it to m's won't do much for me. My outlook is this - the lens on the camera is what's most important and I love my cv lenses, but when they're on a body that I can't comfortably carry for 20 minutes it becomes alot more than just an annoyance. I generally have my camera over my neck and across my shoulder at my side, for hours at a time, and vertically hanging lugs makes the most sense.

essentially this is what I want:
m mount
ttl meter
mechanical shutter if meter or battery fails
and a body that's comfortable to hang around my neck/shoulder

the bessa scores a 3/4 and from my understanding the cl gets a 4/4. I'm not interested in upgrading to a leica for the sake of the name, but when I can purchase a cl for less than I could sell my bessa for, why not?

the cl's vf/rf is at least as good as an xa or canonet (both of which worked fine for me), right?

the build quality is comparable to a bessa, right?

assuming the meter works, I'll get an accurate exposure the same as I would with my bessa, right?

so, a new question: does the cl meet my personal requirements for what I want in a rf?

p.s. I am really stubborn, so do your best:p

edit: oh and thank you all for the quick responses!
 
I guess a CL will be fine for you... You'll get rid of things you enjoyed every day, like easy loading, a great finder, and a decades newer camera with better grip, and you'll get a Leica that hangs vertically, but essentially your photographs won't necessarily be worse, only your interaction with your camera... So go for it!

Cheers,

Juan
 
I would make the move, because I vastly prefer the CL's analogue meter to the VC's diodes. But you'll have to buy a case from Mr Zhou to stop one end of the camera getting all dinged up, as mine is. And I suggest you shouldn't even think of swapping before you try a CL in the hand.
 
PhillipAbbott said:
I'm not interested in upgrading to a leica for the sake of the name, but when I can purchase a cl for less than I could sell my bessa for, why not?
Click to expand...

I don't see much of a price difference, unless you were to get a CL with a broken meter (which you don't want). So, this counts only if you have a specific offer.

Paul makes some good and un-polemic points.

The real reason to get a CL is the small size. That doesn't seem to matter to you, so why give up the superior finder, more accurate RF, and near-new reliability of the Bessa? I think you should get a half case and carry the Bessa (vertically, if you want) for a while. If you still hate it, sell the case (you'll only lose a few bucks) and try a CL.
 
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Yes, I plan on testing the cl with at least one roll before getting rid of the bessa. and I know this is what will really determine it, I was just hoping that someone else might have made a switch for a similar reason in the past.

And I don't plan on a selling the bessa for heaps more than the cost of a cl, but I feel like overall I wouldn't be spending any moneyto make the switch in contrast with purchasing some type of voigtlander accessory to solve my problem.
 
batterytypehah! said:
think you should get a half case and carry the Bessa (vertically, if you want) for a while. If you still hate it, sell the case (you'll only lose a few bucks) and try a CL.
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I wasn't aware of any half case that would give a different lug placement for the bessa. I would definitely prefer this over a side grip or winder.
 
^Not the stock cases but I would just add a tab & ring on one side of the bottom. Or, on a cheap case, you could make cuts in the bottom to lead one strap around, much like one can do with the tabs on old Barnack cases.
 
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