Didier
"Deed"
After I received the R-D1 back from Epson with more RF disalignment as when I sent it, I have now managed to adjust the rangefinder horizontally following Jimbobuks tutorial here.
At infinity, it seems ok, if I keep my eye in the middle of the viewer, have a light spot (it's night here) 2km away centered in the RF patch, then it looks reasonably congruent. It's anyway difficult to examine it as when you move the eye, or move the point to the rf batch's edges, the congruency gets lost. Have done it with a 50 Summicron, 40 Nokton and 28 Skoparl, which all focus correctly on a recently MP-finder upgraded M6.
OK. But now comes my main trouble: at close focus, about 1m, wide open (f1.4-2), the difference between sharpness (congruence) in the rf and sharpness on the picture is about 13cm in depth (Summicron 50), and successively less with the 40 and the 28 (which has f3.5 anyway).
I know, close focus and wide open requests the most precision of a rangefinder, the longest possible effective baselength, but is this difference normal? The same happened before I adjusted the rf, and after, impossible to say if or how much it changed, as my adjustment was very minor and the shots were done without tripod.
See the pictures here (have made a lot but they all look similar):
Summicron 50mm collapsible, f2.0, closest distance 1m
Here's the 100%, cropped:
Any advice is appreciated. I'm at the end of my adjusting skills and I fear I have to accept Rober Whites offer to resend it to Epson. And go to China with the M6...
Didier
At infinity, it seems ok, if I keep my eye in the middle of the viewer, have a light spot (it's night here) 2km away centered in the RF patch, then it looks reasonably congruent. It's anyway difficult to examine it as when you move the eye, or move the point to the rf batch's edges, the congruency gets lost. Have done it with a 50 Summicron, 40 Nokton and 28 Skoparl, which all focus correctly on a recently MP-finder upgraded M6.
OK. But now comes my main trouble: at close focus, about 1m, wide open (f1.4-2), the difference between sharpness (congruence) in the rf and sharpness on the picture is about 13cm in depth (Summicron 50), and successively less with the 40 and the 28 (which has f3.5 anyway).
I know, close focus and wide open requests the most precision of a rangefinder, the longest possible effective baselength, but is this difference normal? The same happened before I adjusted the rf, and after, impossible to say if or how much it changed, as my adjustment was very minor and the shots were done without tripod.
See the pictures here (have made a lot but they all look similar):
Summicron 50mm collapsible, f2.0, closest distance 1m
Here's the 100%, cropped:
Any advice is appreciated. I'm at the end of my adjusting skills and I fear I have to accept Rober Whites offer to resend it to Epson. And go to China with the M6...
Didier
Last edited:
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
There's a close-range focus adjustment that's only accessible after removing the top cover, so if that's the problem I'd let Epson or a professional technician handle it.
First, though, I would suggest making sure your infinity adjustment is really correct. If you're doing it at night, you're going to have a difficult time. Also (I found this out the hard way) if you really strain away for hours trying to adjust the RF, your eye fatigues and you can't be sure whether it's really adjusted or not. Have a good night's sleep, then check it again when well-rested and relaxed.
First, though, I would suggest making sure your infinity adjustment is really correct. If you're doing it at night, you're going to have a difficult time. Also (I found this out the hard way) if you really strain away for hours trying to adjust the RF, your eye fatigues and you can't be sure whether it's really adjusted or not. Have a good night's sleep, then check it again when well-rested and relaxed.
Mark Norton
Well-known
Good advice, I've sometimes wondered when looking at pictures of Leica production how it must be to spend your working life peering through an (initially) mal-adjusted viewfinder or if you are a lab or semiconductor person looking all the time through a microscope. Not good on the eyes.
Didier
"Deed"
jlw said:
JLW, you're absolutely right the eyes get tired very quickly. Today it looks a bit different and what seemed ok tonight at infinity still does not look perfect now. The problem is that the point of focus must be in the absolute middle of the patch and the eye in the middle axis of the viewfinder. And afterwards looking in the tiny camera hole with a watchmaker loupe on the eye, that's what makes me tired quickly.
Tonight I have only screwed the infinity screw (bottom, middle). Now, with a tiny pocket lamp, I have finally found the horizontal adj. screw which is more hidden than it looks on the tutorial.
But here's the next surprise: this screw has a kind of blue glue on, like a warranty seal. Or maybe it's just some lubricant? Has anyone ever seen that? I'm afraid if I scratch it away to screw it I might loose my warranty. Nevertheless I'll try it as Epson's service is doubtable, and I want to take that camera with me for my soon coming China trip.
I'll post my results later.
Didier (drinking a lot of carot juice)
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
Didier said:
Didier
"Deed"
Jim
Yep it's locktight. I'm coming through now and it looks I can even manage the close focus issue by adjusting. Don't need to take the cover plate off. More later
Didier
Yep it's locktight. I'm coming through now and it looks I can even manage the close focus issue by adjusting. Don't need to take the cover plate off. More later
Didier
Didier
"Deed"
I redid the whole thing this afternoon, with fresh eyes, and could easily do the vertical adjustment which looks good now. Then I managed to adjust the close focus problem with the left vertical adj. screw (the most difficult to handle) to a almost perfect setting; and it looked really good. I focused to the "I" of EINLADUNG, Summicron 50, f2.0, closest distance 1m, 100%, cropped:
Compared to my shots of yesterday, this one is an almost perfect adjustment - considering the focal length, aperture and short effective baselength. OK so far. But now, it was slightly offset at infinity. I screwed the ininity adj. screw (middle one) a very,very little and got it perfectly congruent at infinity. I was ready to clap my shoulders myself, but then repeated my close distance test. And now, this f@#%&g little infinity adjustment messed up my close distance setting - it looks the same as the 2 pictures at the top, again.
Damned, damned, damned....
My conclusion: the rangefinder does not work accurately from closeup to infinity. This can only be managed by adjusting the baselength with the eccentric wheel at the left of the rangefinder (see here 4th picture).
My question to the forum: Am I right? If yes, the camera needs a pro adjustment as I don't want to take the cover off.
This R-D1 adjustment issue is getting more&more painful for me, honestly. Or am I demanding too much - a rangefinder which is accurate from 1m to infinity?
Didier
Compared to my shots of yesterday, this one is an almost perfect adjustment - considering the focal length, aperture and short effective baselength. OK so far. But now, it was slightly offset at infinity. I screwed the ininity adj. screw (middle one) a very,very little and got it perfectly congruent at infinity. I was ready to clap my shoulders myself, but then repeated my close distance test. And now, this f@#%&g little infinity adjustment messed up my close distance setting - it looks the same as the 2 pictures at the top, again.
Damned, damned, damned....
My conclusion: the rangefinder does not work accurately from closeup to infinity. This can only be managed by adjusting the baselength with the eccentric wheel at the left of the rangefinder (see here 4th picture).
My question to the forum: Am I right? If yes, the camera needs a pro adjustment as I don't want to take the cover off.
This R-D1 adjustment issue is getting more&more painful for me, honestly. Or am I demanding too much - a rangefinder which is accurate from 1m to infinity?
Didier
Last edited:
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
These adjustments are made more easily with an eyepiece magnifier, either the Megaperls, or the Nikon DG-2. My procedure (the RF has gone out after long iarplane trips x2) is to measure exactly 1 meter from the focal plane, and set my fastest lens (here a Nocti I know is accurate on the R-D1) to 1 meter as well. Since my particular RD-1 is capable of perfect or near perfect allignment, I know that checking the close focus, and trimming at infinity with the middle screw will work.
Ed
Ed
rvaubel
Well-known
Didier said:
Didier
Don't give up yet. I had a long talk with Don Goldburg(DAG) a few months ago and he gave me some info you might find useful. You are probably right that the top cover needs to be removed to adjust the ratio between the infinity to near focus range. That being said, the process is a reiteritive one. That is, it has to be done over and over again as you slowly creep up on a perfect alignment.
Now DAG takes off the topplate as a matter of course because its easy for him and he gets access to all of th adjustment screws. Taking off the top plate is not as easy as getting of the shoe as you mut remove the rubber covering on the shutter release side, plus the front panel.....etc, etc.
Don tried to walk me thru the whole procedure, but I gave up listening because it started to get to comples for a phone conversation. But Don indicated that it wasn't really that hard, just difficult to explain long distance.
I think i understand the actual alignment procedure as I have had to do similar optical alignments on other equipment. But the complete job entails the removal of the top plate. However, there is a some chance that you can do what you need thru the hotshoe. Try it a few more times, little by little.
I am most interested as I dropped my almost perfectly aligned camera and it needs a complete tune-up. Learning the procedure would be handy since I exoect that I will drop it again someday. In any case, I would like to tweak my alignment whenever I felt like it as I am into Fast lens, low light and narrow DOF
But its zone focusing for me for now.
Rex
Didier
"Deed"
Rex
thanks for the useful informations. Like you I'm on fast lens, available light and narrow dof. I had already contacted DAG and CQ for a cost estimate before your post... but I won't give up and will try it through the hotshoe again before I send it away. I have dis- and reassembled a Canon VT once but a partial R-D1 disassembling is too much for me.
Didier
thanks for the useful informations. Like you I'm on fast lens, available light and narrow dof. I had already contacted DAG and CQ for a cost estimate before your post... but I won't give up and will try it through the hotshoe again before I send it away. I have dis- and reassembled a Canon VT once but a partial R-D1 disassembling is too much for me.
Didier
Didier
"Deed"
Have tuned the R-D1 rf alignment again for 2 hours, but couldn't resolve the problem. Neither closeup or infinity focus is messed up. Vertical is ok now.
But at least I could get rid of a very intrigueing effect. Before, when I moved the camera around the object I was focusing at, then the distance between object in image and object in patch varied strongly depending if the object is in the middle of the patch or at the edges. Like in older russian or cheap compact rangefinders. Since my adjustment efforts, at least this effect is gone. Btw it shows in how a bad state Epson has sent the camera back to me.
But anyway, the camera goes to a pro repairman by express tomorrow morning (and my M6 will be happy to be used again, this week
Thanks to all who contributed to my questions,
Didier
But at least I could get rid of a very intrigueing effect. Before, when I moved the camera around the object I was focusing at, then the distance between object in image and object in patch varied strongly depending if the object is in the middle of the patch or at the edges. Like in older russian or cheap compact rangefinders. Since my adjustment efforts, at least this effect is gone. Btw it shows in how a bad state Epson has sent the camera back to me.
But anyway, the camera goes to a pro repairman by express tomorrow morning (and my M6 will be happy to be used again, this week
Thanks to all who contributed to my questions,
Didier
Didier
"Deed"
Finally Adjusted...
Finally Adjusted...
Got the R-D1 back from DAG today. RF spot-on at infinity as well as closeup wide open. Great Job, Don, thanks!
Summicron at f2, 1m (at the "28" mark):
The only issue now was that the swiss customs taxed it fully for the second time though there were all papers for export and reimport correctly attached. Now I will have some letters to write to them to get it back. It's hard to fight the officialdom here...
But the joy of having the R-D1 fully operational at last is bigger.
Cheers to all
Didier
Finally Adjusted...
Got the R-D1 back from DAG today. RF spot-on at infinity as well as closeup wide open. Great Job, Don, thanks!
Summicron at f2, 1m (at the "28" mark):
The only issue now was that the swiss customs taxed it fully for the second time though there were all papers for export and reimport correctly attached. Now I will have some letters to write to them to get it back. It's hard to fight the officialdom here...
But the joy of having the R-D1 fully operational at last is bigger.
Cheers to all
Didier
Terao
Kiloran
Who/where/what is DAG?
Didier
"Deed"
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I had a similar close-focus problem that cropped up on my R-D1. Don was able to get my camera back to me in time to shoot a friend's wedding. I get the feeling that he has seen enough R-D1's to know his way around its RF pretty well. He is a good guy.
Ben
Ben
chrisso
Established
Anyone in New York City that can do this?
Didier
"Deed"
chrisso said:
I don't know. Maybe. Ask Rich from photovillage he's in NYC, too. But the R-D1 is a particular camera, and I doubt there is one with more R-D1 adjusting experience than Don.
Didier
Didier
"Deed"
Benjamin Marks said:
Agree. I'm in similar situation, on the jump to a China trip. He did it in the shortest possible time.
Didier
KEH
Well-known
Not wanting to complicate things too much, but I have a couple of lenses that focus perfectly in the 'wide open shot of the ruler' test, and several others that close focus to varying degrees. So it may be that with a perfect rf alignment, there still will be a need to get the lenses adjusted to spec as well. Am I right on this? Anybody else have similar experience?
Cheers,
Kirk
Cheers,
Kirk
Didier
"Deed"
Kirk
You're right lenses can also be disadjusted. I have a Industar-22 which is completely out (close and infinity - russian QC issue) and a Canon 135/3.5 that is out at close up. Fortunately my other lenses seem to be ok.
If you want the perfect rf gear, send body and all lenses together to a good repair man (might become expensive...)
Didier
You're right lenses can also be disadjusted. I have a Industar-22 which is completely out (close and infinity - russian QC issue) and a Canon 135/3.5 that is out at close up. Fortunately my other lenses seem to be ok.
If you want the perfect rf gear, send body and all lenses together to a good repair man (might become expensive...)
Didier