Canon LTM unclear VF on canonet GIII QL17

Canon M39 M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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nihraguk

Guest
hi guys,

i recently started photography as a hobby, and picked up a praktica MTL3 body and a pentax smc 50/1.4 lens off ebay as a starter. then, after trying out the heavy SLR body and all for awhile, i decided to pick up a rangefinder as well... and after some deliberation and scouring eBay, i settled for a canonet GIII ql17. this was the same auction referred to by g0tr00t on this thread: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2417&highlight=canonet

i just received the camera in the mail today, and the problem that i have with it (and now i'm finally, in my longwinded manner, getting to the subject of this post) is that the RF spot in the VF seems very hard to use. the spot is only visible in certain types of lighting.. in otherwise normal room lighting it becomes rather difficult to 'see' when the camera is in focus and when it isn't. it seems like the fresnel split-image focusing pattern on the SLR i have focuses much easier..

another related problem is that the aperture-setting at the right side of the VF always seems to be lurking at the corner of my eye when i look through the VF. i find it almost impossible to see where the needle of the meter is at... unless i point the camera at the ceiling light in the room.

my question is: are these typical problems, and can they be corrected by a DIY open-up-the-camera manoveur?

the camera, apart from this issue, came with a lens with multiple scratches... covered with a pristine and unscratched vivitar skylight filter. .... contrary to the item's description on ebay. i have yet to see if the scratches significantly degrade the performance of the camera lens.

otherwise, the camera itself has an impressive, solid and weighty build. this is a made-in-taiwan model, but it feels like it was made in japan. i am certain that a mint example of this camera would truly be a joy to own and use...

but i first need help on my lemon example.

any advice would be much appreciated, and apologies for the long post.

thanks :)
 
Between the lens scratches (not in description) and the viewfinder problems, I'd say your camera is seriously hosed and you should go after the eBay seller for a refund. There are plenty of good Canonets out there and there's no reason to start out with a defective one.

I can think of a lot of possible reasons that the RF spot and meter readout would be hard to see. Most of those reasons would involve deteriorated or damaged parts (beamsplitter etc.) and it's unlikely that you could just pull the top off the camera and fix it yourself, especially if you don't already have a lot of experience with RF mechanisms.

Frustrating advice, I know, but you want your first rangefinder experience to be a good one, not an ongoing exercise in frustration.
 
nihraguk,

I'm sorry that you're having problems with your Canonet. In answer to your questions - it is normal for the rangefinder patch to fade in some of these classics, but usually not to the extent that it can no longer be seen. I have two Canonets (I used to have three) and although their rangefinder patches are NOT as nice or easy to see as my Bessa R, they're not that bad. I do have examples of cameras that I nearly can't use outdoors because the rangefinder patch fades or flares out so badly, but not the Canonets. JLW is right when he says that this is hard to have fixed - perhaps not even possible. You can clean up a viewfinder in many cases, but it is hard to get the rangefinder patch fixed.

Scratches on the front of the lens will cause degradation - that's a fact. The question is whether or not the degradation will be visible to the human eye or the film - and I've been surprised in many cases to find that it does not, even when you think it would. Scratches on the rear element are a different issue, much more serious in general. However, in general, one can expect that a scratched front element can cause increased lens flare and decreased contrast - but how would you know what it was causing, unless you had a pristine copy of the same lens to compare it with? That's why it can be difficult to really see if the scratches are causing problems.

I agree with JLW - I think I'd return the camera and try again.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
I would contact the seller and try to get a refund. Here is a quote from his auction.

-----------
Q: Is the lens free of scratches and is the camera usable as-is ? Also, will you ship to India ? answered on: Dec-09-04
A: yes I will ship to India, the camera lens is free of scratches, and takes wonerful pictures. payment from outside the USA has to be paypal. thank you
-----------
 
Guys, thanks for your quick and detailed responses. I have just sent the seller an email requesting a refund, and I hope that he will agree to one.
 
I am going to go with the DIY repair route. For $31, you got the camera fairly cheap; even with the problems stated. I have used and sold a Canonet here on RFF with marks (Noted in the sale) in the front element. They did little (if nothing) to degrade the image. I have learned that a few marks on the glass, and even significant deep scratches, do less than we are led to believe. My Summarit pictures are prime examples.

My DIY Canonet Viewfinder Cleaning Folder

A Picture from the Canonet sold here, Cleaning Marks on Lens.


Another


Cleaning Marks and Scratches are highly over-rated.
A Shot from my Summarit, Wide-Open Lots-o-Marks
 
Brian has a good point. I sent my SPn with scratches to a repair center. I also had the foam replaced. They polished my lens for free. :)

Should be here in a few days....
 
I am reluctant to send it for a CLA and hope for the best.. because over here in Singapore secondhand camera stuff and camera repair tends to be rather expensive. For silghtly more than the cost of a CLA I could probably buy another QL17 from a more reputable and trustworthy seller.

With regards to the markings on the lens itself... I could wait for the roll of film currently in the camera to develop and see if they degrade the image quality. But at the end of the day the problematic VF looks like its here to stay, and, as a matter of principle, I think a refund is in order.

I appreciate your responses anyway; the DIY/CLA route might well be an option of last resort, if all else fails..
 
I am going to guess that the seller will offer a refund on the purchase price only and stick you with two-way shipping. He will probably deduct paypal and ebay fees. With a 48mm filter (worth ~$10 alone), you can probably get more money back from reselling the camera.

Let us know what he does.
 
I would send it back seller said it had no scratches, but it does.
You will be out postage both ways...I looked at his feedback
he sells mostly fishing gear, not cameras. He had a recent
bad feedback about another camera. Buy a rangefinder from
someone here that is in working condition. Folks here are always
trading something. Canonet rangefinders are usually very good..
but everyone I have seen needed to be cleaned. Its very easy
to clean the RF. I would not worry about the scratches but I am
surprised that it does not need new foam seals in the camera...
Rob
 
You've all heard me numerous times, say that in my opinion that the GIII QL-17 lens, is overrated. However, I do think that it has one of the best viewfinders and focusing patches of any of the rangefinders. Quite easy to use, IMHO

Russ
 
as an update... the seller has responded and said that he will not refund me, because when he examined the camera the lens had no scratches and etc..

also, he mentioned that the ebay listing states that 'all sales are final', and so there is no option for refund.

I replied to his email, attaching a link to several images of the camera and the scratched lens, and asked him to reconsider. If you guys are interested, you can check out the pictures of the camera here:
http://www.pbase.com/cerenyx/canonet_giii_ql17
 
nihraguk said:
as an update... the seller has responded and said that he will not refund me, because when he examined the camera the lens had no scratches and etc..

also, he mentioned that the ebay listing states that 'all sales are final', and so there is no option for refund.

I replied to his email, attaching a link to several images of the camera and the scratched lens, and asked him to reconsider. If you guys are interested, you can check out the pictures of the camera here:
http://www.pbase.com/cerenyx/canonet_giii_ql17
Click to expand...


We might have the same seller hiding under different names:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2718
 
There seems to be a huge challenge with E-Bay and that is that the feedback system isn't necessarily accurate because of retaliatory feedback. Many times people with legitimate reasons to complain don't leave negative feedback because the other party is likely to leave negative feedback in return. I know that, more than once, this has kept my wife from leaving negative (and deserved) feedback when she's gotten burned. Lets assume that nihraguk has done nothing wrong in this exchange and gives the seller negative feedback for misrepresenting the camera. The seller may well respond with retaliatory (and undeserved) negative feedback for nihraguk which the latter is stuck with. The only negative feedback I have on my E-Bay record is retaliatory and came from a buyer who was the winning bidder on my 4 x 5 Wista camera and then used various methods to avoid paying or communicating. He's no longer part of E-Bay but the feedback stays with me. That situation must repeat itself a thousand times a day.

I suspect that there are many people operating on E-Bay who are not nearly as trustworthy as their ratings would suggest. As such, I approach E-Bay with great caution although I do trade there. Whenever possible, I buy through Buy & Sell forums like the one on this site. Fred Miranda's site is a superb place to buy and sell Canon SLR gear. Perhaps we could use this opportunity to list sites that seem to be good places to buy and sell gear. They don't all deal with rangefinder equipment but some of my favorites are:

http://www.photo.net

http://www.fredmiranda.com/

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/index.asp

It would great to add to this list with sites that have traditionally been a good place to buy and sell rangefinder equipment.

Cheers,

Sean
 
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