Very Early Coated Lenses- the first 10 years from 1935 to 1945.

Sonnar Brian

Sonnar Brian

Product of the Fifties
Staff member
Local time
12:24 PM
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
19,778
View My Gallery
Alexander Smakula started applying hard-coatings to optics at Zeiss in 1935. Smakula used vapor deposition to apply his lens coatings, still in use today. Like most engineers, I'm sure that exact records with Serial numbers were kept- but these are lost to time. What we have left are several of the lenses from this time.

I invite anyone with early lenses made up through 1945 to post images of and with the lens. This may be one of the few places on the Internet that will have this information.

I'm starting with my 1935 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar from the 175xxxx batch of lenses. This is also one of the first Sonnars that I bought, and is the first converted to Leica Mount. The front element on this lens is coated. I have worked on one other Sonnar from this same batch that has the exact same coating, and have seen images of a third one.

000000.jpg


Wide-Open on the M9,

1935-backlit-f15.jpg


1935cut-up-tree-f15.jpg


Wide-Open on the Canon P,

 
The first lens with fully-coated optics that I own, and have seen- is from the 190xxxx batch of Sonnars. This lens was an "Ebay Gamble" looked like wax paper when bought. No tool marks, had never been opened. The internal haze- cleaned off perfectly, the coatings completely intact. I've seen wartime Sonnars with soft inner coatings. Not this lens- all surfaces are hard-coated.

Exif-JPEG-PICTURE.jpg


Exif-JPEG-PICTURE.jpg


Converted to Leica mount using a J-3 focus mount. The conversion is reversible. The J-3 mount is smooth. I converted the J-3 to Contax mount.

Wide-Open on the M9,

L1002342.jpg


BERRY1-F15.jpg


dewdrop3-f15.jpg


at F4,

window1-f4.jpg
 
My second Zeiss from old times is the 5cm 2 that I found online in ltm. I don't now who/how it was created in an Elmar shell.

4249798-orig.jpg


6159098-orig.jpg


Marc Small wrote me that this lens was one of 200 lenses that Germany traded with Norway or Sweden for iron ore.


i-BS8T6Vg-M.jpg



i-pqhQrXJ-S.jpg



i-qsL6cDv-S.jpg
 
Raid- is the 5cm F2 lens coated?

I think the 5cm F1.5 203xxxx is uncoated. The Sonnars develop a "Bloom", natural coating over the years.
 
No problem!

Zeiss production of coated and uncoated optics ran simultaneously for years. I have some late 13.5cm F4 Sonnars that are uncoated.

I have a 239xxxx Biogon 3.5cm F2.8 at is fully coated and marked with a "T", a 255xxxx 5cm F1.5 Sonnar "T", a 270xxxx 5cm F2 Sonnar "T", and a 282xxxx 5cm F2.8 Tessar in Exakta mount with coated front element.

I'll be adding those to this thread.

Zeiss started coating lenses about 2 years before the "T" (for Transparent) mark was added to the name ring. I'd like to post my examples here.
 
I got on the Sonnar 'bandwagon' just recently after picking up one of those made for one year only rare 1957 Takumar 58mm f2 lenses. Just loved 'the look' so much it was onto the 'real' Zeiss Sonnars. I've been hunting for a pre-war for a few months and found my ideal lens, a 5cm f1.4 with the nickel black paint mount and chromed front aperture filter threads #1660694, uncoated, and added a Amadeo adapter. While that deal was still in the works found another which included the adapter, original cap and hood, and nice UV filter, at a price I couldn't pass on. The sale pictures were so bad I didn't know what to expect, but its in very good condition; #2188010 and has a very light blue coating (no 'T'). This one is going to my son to use on the monochrom I gave him. I still haven't shot any film with them, been on the Leica SL, so it will be interesting to see how they focus with the monochrom RF when my son is back here in a couple days.


L1020198.JPG
 
1374171: this one is early (Understatement)- and is from a batch of 100 lenses made in 1932. I'm guessing this one was used by someone at Zeiss- how early it is.
The vacuum deposition equipment was installed in 1935.
I imagine the owner of the lens said - "Try it onethis one!"
 
dreamsandart said:
I've been hunting for a pre-war for a few months and found my ideal lens, a 5cm f1.4 with the nickel black paint mount and chromed front aperture filter threads #1660694, uncoated, and added a Amadeo adapter.
#2188010 and has a very light blue coating (no 'T'). This one is going to my son to use on the monochrom I gave him. I still haven't shot any film with them, been on the Leica SL, so it will be interesting to see how they focus with the monochrom RF when my son is back here in a couple days.
Click to expand...

Your early 5cm F1.5 Sonnar is from a batch of 1000 lenses made immediately before mine. Very interesting: the design changed during the batch that your lens is in. I've seen Sonnars without the filter rings from that same batch of serial numbers. The new design is much better. The lens is uncoated- but "Blooms" beautifully. This acts as a natural coating, but will look uneven. It's basically tarnished glass- so be careful when cleaning. I get very unique colors from mine, it is my favorite.
The second lens- falls in the range I've seen of coated lenses, but before the "T".
 
KoNickon said:
"This one is going to my son to use on the monochrom I gave him." Wow! Will you adopt me? 🙂
Click to expand...

When I gave it to him I wasn’t sure I was actually giving it to him, thought maybe it was just a loan and see how it went ( I’d loved the monochrom since the get go ), but… He had just expressed an interest in still photography and my Leica cameras, and at 18 years old it was about the same time I’d gotten into Leica those many years ago, but I had been seriously studying photography with a classic training and theory study; large-format, darkroom, oil coloring B&W prints…, and I’d worked and saved my pennies to buy my first M3. Still, anything to encourage him in creativity and art, and he’ll have something to expand on rather than just go through the usual ‘trade up’ routine. I also gave him my v3 50mm Summicron and he’s doing some good work with that. I’ve had that lens since the early 1970s, so kind of miss it, going to be getting that back with the Sonnar in his hands ;-) The Sonnar won’t be as easy to use maybe for a beginner, so we’ll see how it goes. The Sonnar should be a very good match on the monochrom and help make images with a certain unique quality. There is definitely a ‘cool’ factor to using such a beautifully made lens with the still optically great Zeiss glass that’s 85-years old too!
 
I have a Zeiss Jena Sonnar 5cm f1.5 LTM serial number 2724622, which places it in 1943. It is marked with a red T indicating T coating. The RFF member who sold it to me said it had been owned by LeicaTom, who was a member here (and a Zeiss Sonnar aficionado but who no is no longer active on this site) and was subsequently seviced by Don Goldberg. It’s a lovely optic… I’ve used it mainly for landscape photography on my Leica IIIc cameras…

Some sample images:

Pine by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Beach in winter by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Listening by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr

Oaks by Steve Macfarlane, on Flickr
 
I have a coated nickel Tessar 1:2,8 f=5cm Nr 130815 (Contax mount). The coating is blue. The lens is however unusuable due to scratches. It seems that only the front lens is coated.

Erik.
 
Zeiss kept very quiet about the coating; it was used for military spec. cameras and not available to the public, as I understand it. I've a collection of magazines from the 30's to 40's and there's just one mention of coatings and it's very vague (deliberately?) and only mentions the US version, not Zeiss. The coated ones from Zeiss probably were used for horse trading after the war by individuals who'd got their hands on one, somehow Something similar happened with Lugers and with SE25's in the 1920's...

Regards, David
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom