Voigtlander Bessa I II or Zeiss Ikonta Mess

BobBill

BobBill

Established
Local time
4:48 PM
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
137
Which camera do you prefer? I own all of these cameras are all 6x9 beauties, but I really do not need but one...I try to use all three equally and may sell two of them.

The Bessas have some minor marks but, essentially, all are quite nice machines. (Every time I pick one up, the craftsmanship and hand work make me wonder what we have done to ourselves.)

Bessa I has 645 mask that I never use, 105 4.5 Color Skopar Compur, no finder
Bess II has 105 3.5 Color Skopar Compur, coupled finder
Zeiss Ikonta Mess 524/2 105 3.5 Tessar Compur, uncoupled finder.

Not trying to create a s-storm, just looking for advice.
 
Last edited:
Have you tried to use a Mess Ikonta? I had one for a day. The peephole for the finder is so tiny. I returned it and got a Super Ikonta C instead.
Out of your other choices, I would probably get the Bessa II. Caveat: it needs to be in good alignment.

Without a good rangefinder, you'll waste a lot of expensive film with 6x9 format on out of focus images.
 
I can't remember about Bessa 1, but the 2 is a left hand shutter release. Of the 3, I have the Bessa 2.. Which is one of my favorite folders along w/ perkeo 2 and Bessa 3.

The Bessa 2 is actually more compact folded up then the newer Fuji made Bessa 3 (gf670).

The Zeiss folders tend to go no better then Tessar designs while the Bessa 2 starts w/ a 4 element Skopar and has more complex lens designs... U may stumble upon a Vaskar, 3 element design for a Bessa 2, but I don't think that it was a standard package on a Bessa 2.

Outside of 9x12 or 4x5, a good 6x9 negative is about as good as it gets, IMHO.

Gary
 
GaryLH said:
I can't remember about Bessa 1, but the 2 is a left hand shutter release. Of the 3, I have the Bessa 2.. Which is one of my favorite folders along w/ perkeo 2 and Bessa 3.

The Bessa 2 is actually more compact folded up then the newer Fuji made Bessa 3 (gf670).

The Zeiss folders tend to go no better then Tessar designs while the Bessa 2 starts w/ a 4 element Skopar and has more complex lens designs... U may stumble upon a Vaskar, 3 element design for a Bessa 2, but I don't think that it was a standard package on a Bessa 2.

Outside of 9x12 or 4x5, a good 6x9 negative is about as good as it gets, IMHO.

Gary
Click to expand...

The Bessa I has right hand shutter relief like the Agfa Record II that I also have.

The Bessa II (that I do not have) probably has the same 56x88mm frame size the Bessa I has. The much larger (new) Fuji/Voigt/Bessa III can not go beyond 56x68mm. 2cm lost in translation. In the Nikon 8000 scanner about 6mm is lost though, the MF frame size is limited to 82mm.

Of the vintage 6x9 folders the Ensign Autorange 820 must have the largest viewfinder, in 6x6 the Iskra is good enough for me.
http://saintlouis-missouri.olx.com/...820-rare-and-collectable-camera-iid-223299912
Not a bad asking price if the shutter still functions.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
 
I owned a Bessa RF and a Mess Ikonta at the same time. My opinion is that the Zeiss is far better made. However, they both have horrible viewfinders and I didn't get on with the handling. Still, I didn't lose any money when I passed them on!

:D
 
Culturespnge, great reference...thanks.

I really am not looking for prices, just which one seems best to keep. I really love all and the pics I take do not require concern about handling features...left, right, etc.

The lenses seem comparable but of the three, only the Bessa II has filter threads on lens and that has me leaning to keep that one and sell the Bessa I and the Zeiss Mess 524, but still curious. Still, Sejanus makes a good point, things are sturdy, if not as handy.


So you know, I shoot digital and medium format for the exotic scenes...I would put up a pic or two, (BWs) but have not figured out the process here yet...and do not want to change the subject to pics etc.
 
Culturesponge, great lens reference...thanks.

I really am not looking for prices, just which one seems best to keep. I really love all and the pics I take do not require concern about handling features...left, right, etc.

The lenses seem comparable but of the three, only the Bessa II has filter threads on lens and that has me leaning to keep that one and sell the Bessa I and the Zeiss Mess 524, but still curious.

Still, Sejanus makes a good point, Zeiss machines are sturdy, if not as handy as the Bessas.

So you know, I shoot digital and medium format (for the exotic scenes)...I would put up a pic or two, (BWs) but have not figured out the process here yet...and do not want to change the subject to pics etc.
 
I agree, the front standard and struts of the voightlander are the weak link w/ the camera compared to the Zeiss .. I have never had a problem w/ the perkeo but I have had one on the Bessa 2. I have two Bessa 2s. One has a Skopar and the other has a Heliar lens. The one w/ the Skopar had a strut problem. The seller claimed perfect working condition (lol). Anyway, I got it for such a good price, I decided to keep it and I sent it to Ken Ruth to get it fixed.

One thing to also look for in the Voitglander folders... If the lens says color Skopar or Heliar then it has lens coating for sure. I have an early Bessa around (the 6x6 can't remember the model), that is not coated. I can't remember when they started to coart their lenses.

Gary
 
Ernst Dinkla said:
The Bessa I has right hand shutter relief like the Agfa Record II that I also have.

The Bessa II (that I do not have) probably has the same 56x88mm frame size the Bessa I has. The much larger (new) Fuji/Voigt/Bessa III can not go beyond 56x68mm. 2cm lost in translation. In the Nikon 8000 scanner about 6mm is lost though, the MF frame size is limited to 82mm.

Of the vintage 6x9 folders the Ensign Autorange 820 must have the largest viewfinder, in 6x6 the Iskra is good enough for me.
http://saintlouis-missouri.olx.com/...820-rare-and-collectable-camera-iid-223299912
Not a bad asking price if the shutter still functions.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
Click to expand...

Yep 2cm lost in the translation and thicker and bigger to boot :(. But it is a modern folder.. The funny thing is I tend to use it more as a 6x6 then a 6x7.

Gary
 
Bessa ii is what I would keep.

I have had all those you listed and stayed with Bessa ii color Heliar after selling the color skopar.
I have the bessa i as well with uncoated Heliar. I like that uncoated lens as well.
Among the Tessar designs the Opton 105 tessera on the 524-2 is the most modern rendering and seems the best corrected.
Still, in use the uncoupled RF is a PIA. Mostly because the markings for distance are very un-precise.
Mine was marked in ft. 5', 6', 9', 15',48' infinity… there is nothing in between as far as distance goes. It was aggravating for me to transfer the distance of the RF to the lens. If you are a landscape shooter it may be less aggravating.
Anyway… that was my experience. Wicked zeiss lens though. Very sharp high contrast.."modern" rendering. But, the Bessa wins overall.


Cheers!
 
GaryLH said:
Yep 2cm lost in the translation and thicker and bigger to boot :(. But it is a modern folder.. The funny thing is I tend to use it more as a 6x6 then a 6x7.

Gary
Click to expand...

No surprise to me. The square format should return in some digital cameras too. The Bessa III masking would have had more sense if the maximum format was 56x82mm. It would prolong Fuji's film making too. In both meanings :) The old 6x9's with masking delivered an approx 56x42 filmformat with a portrait length lens. It does not in the Fuji III design.

-
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectra...ctrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
 
Keep the Bessa II.

To start, it is a nice camera and that Color Skopar lens gives nothing away to any of the other cameras on your list.

Next, it is one stop faster than the other Color Skopar on your list.

Finally, it has the coupled rangefinder which can be very useful at times.

Although it can be a bit odd ergonomically, none of these cameras are really ergonomic dreams. For me, once the first roll is through the camera I find I'm not having to think about it anymore.

But, if there is no burning need to sell them then don't. Part of the fun (maybe most) is not just the pictures, though a 6x9 negative is pretty awesome. It is using the camera itself. Unlike most of today's digital wonders these were cameras made for people who were not afraid to give some thought to what they were doing, even their snapshots.
 
I found some shots I did with my Mess Ikonta, which was fitted with the 105mm Novar. Here's one of them...

11913312856_086b55aaf4_o.jpg
 
I would also keep the Bessa II because of the coupled rangefinder.
An uncoupled rangefinder is critical if you want to do close distance open aperture shooting.

It would be a harder decision between a Bessa II and a Super Ikonta C...
 
Maybe a bit late for the party, but when I had a similar decision to make, I decided in favor of the Bessa II. Main reason: unit focusing. I love Zeiss stuff, but the front cell focusing of their folders is not optimized for infinity (instead for group shots, i.e. 15-30 feet). Depth-of-field is pretty small with a 100mm-ish lens, so an accurate coupled rangefinder is essential (unless you are going for a fuzzy look :) ).

I agree the struts are the weak point, but just be careful and only transport them folded up. Also, the thread in the front is not for filters -- the lens takes push-on filters.

Just FYI -- here are a couple of scans of prints made with negatives from the Bessa II.


Sanchi - Great Stupa and West Torana (8x10 Print) by nbg90455, on Flickr


Ajanta - Cave 9: The Buddha (8x10 Print) by nbg90455, on Flickr
 
With 75 or 80 mm lenses, you better go with a coupled rangefinder in case you want to 'hit' much more shots at close distance. I had the Bessa II, it is very well made, same quality as the Zeiss camera's, but It is very big and heavy. I sold it and instead kept the 6x6 Super Ikonta (which has the coupled rangefinder)

nice wasn't she? - now owned by someone in Hongkong - This one had the lovely Heliar lens

Voigtländer Bessa II 1951 by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom