We may have left the golden age of secondhand gear

[Archiver]

Looking at the gallery of @Jamie Pillers and his many cameras made me think of the early days of my collection, where I knew little about the ins and outs of older film cameras but drooled over them just the same. The secondhand camera market is such that gear we lusted over years ago can now be bought for much less than its original price, but prices have been rising.

There are some things which have inflated over the past ten years or so - Leica R lenses have become highly sought after by video shooters, luxury point and shoots like the Contax T2 and T3 have tripled in price due to their use by celebrities, and others like the TX2/X-Pan are crazy money now. Back in 2008, I passed on a Contax G2 with 28, 45 and 90 and flash in decent condition for about AUD $1200, this same set now sells for about $4000 to $5000. My Contax T3 was about $500 USD in 2006, now they sell for AUD $3000 - $5000! Of course, Leica gear just keeps getting more expensive. I bought my secondhand M7 in 2010 for about $3100, now they go for about $6000.

But we can build a full set of Minolta, Pentax, Konica or Yashica lenses for a very reasonable price, and shoot them on the latest digital bodies or their original film counterparts. Olympus Trips, XAs and SLR's can be bought at markets and pawn shops. Prices are going up, but we can still buy the Pentax SLR we used in the 70s. Deals are out there if we hunt, but I think we've left the golden age of secondhand film gear.

Digital is another story. A Nikon D700 or D610 costs only a few hundred dollars compared with the thousands they once commanded, and they take photos just as beautiful as when they were first produced. The Canon 5D Mark II was about AUD $4000 when it was released in 2009, now you can pick one up for $300-400. I just wonder if digital will suffer the same fate as film gear?

 

[Retro-Grouch]

The film gear that sees the biggest increase in value (and prices) is mostly mechanical equipment (Leica, Rollei, Hasselblad, etc.). Digital, by definition, is electronics, and therefore has a more limited lifespan. I doubt that "classic" digital equipment will see the same astronomical increases in value that film equipment has. And remember, for all practical purposes, film cameras are no longer being mass produced. Digital cameras are, and will continue to be. The laws of supply and demand are harsh!

 

[dxq.canada]

I am having a hard time finding even broken cameras at reasonable prices ... the older the more outlandish the asking price.

 

[splitimageview]

I really don't want to think about all the gear that I owned back in the 2010-12 range that is in the stratosphere now... XPan ($1k), Contax 645 (traded an M6 body for a full kit, about $800), Black Contax G2 with 3 black lenses, $1400, black Contax T3, $250...argh!

 

[wlewisiii]

I'll cop to missing the Leica IIIf & Summitar & the Nikon F2 Photomic & the Nikkors I had at that time frame. Live & learn.

 

[Tim Murphy]

Looking at the gallery of @Jamie Pillers and his many cameras made me think of the early days of my collection, where I knew little about the ins and outs of older film cameras but drooled over them just the same. The secondhand camera market is such that gear we lusted over years ago can now be bought for much less than its original price, but prices have been rising.

There are some things which have inflated over the past ten years or so - Leica R lenses have become highly sought after by video shooters, luxury point and shoots like the Contax T2 and T3 have tripled in price due to their use by celebrities, and others like the TX2/X-Pan are crazy money now. Back in 2008, I passed on a Contax G2 with 28, 45 and 90 and flash in decent condition for about AUD $1200, this same set now sells for about $4000 to $5000. My Contax T3 was about $500 USD in 2006, now they sell for AUD $3000 - $5000! Of course, Leica gear just keeps getting more expensive. I bought my secondhand M7 in 2010 for about $3100, now they go for about $6000.

But we can build a full set of Minolta, Pentax, Konica or Yashica lenses for a very reasonable price, and shoot them on the latest digital bodies or their original film counterparts. Olympus Trips, XAs and SLR's can be bought at markets and pawn shops. Prices are going up, but we can still buy the Pentax SLR we used in the 70s. Deals are out there if we hunt, but I think we've left the golden age of secondhand film gear.

Digital is another story. A Nikon D700 or D610 costs only a few hundred dollars compared with the thousands they once commanded, and they take photos just as beautiful as when they were first produced. The Canon 5D Mark II was about AUD $4000 when it was released in 2009, now you can pick one up for $300-400. I just wonder if digital will suffer the same fate as film gear?

Dear Archiver,

The deals are still there, at least with Pentax. It was a brand I never dealt with, having shot Canon cameras in film and digital. Within the last year, give or take a month, I scored a Spotmatic F for under $ 30.00 that works perfectly. I spent another $ 350.00 or so on 28, 35, 105, 200, and 300mm SMC Takumar's with the magic square tab on the back for full aperture metering.

Encouraged by my successes I bought an ARS Lab-Box from a forum member and developed film using Cinestill one bath.

I have many digital cameras that I love to use and use them often. But going out with film and shooting a roll and coming back home and seeing pictures developed makes me smile. I'm not good at it, but I still smile!

I'm kind of at the point now where I have far more cameras, and lenses than I will ever need. They all have a value to me personally, but if a family member inventoried what I own they would just go, "What in the world is this?"

I'm at the pinnacle and looking and the precipice. So, I'm kind of done collecting and will let things play out just wearing things out.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg PA 🙂

 

[x-ray]

It’s not just cameras, pretty much everything has skyrocketed but then everything around us has gone up too. Check the grocery store, car prices, rent and homes.

 

[David Murphy]

This reminds of some newsstands (remember those) which had signs posted that said "no reading".

 

[Mos6502]

Those days ended years ago.

Three things happened in succession: The internet, digital cameras, the economic downturn of 2008. Each step lowered prices on old gear and in 2010 there was a lot of stuff out there for crazy cheap. The internet, which once made accessible rarities which almost never showed up in brick and mortar shop's display cases is now used to manufacture hype and boost prices on pretty common items. The digital revolution, well it turns out some people just prefer film anyway, and the good film cameras (and some of the bad ones) have had demand rebound. The economy regardless of what one may think, is undeniably in a better place than it was 13-14 years ago. Additionally, adapting old manual focus lenses has become a fad and driven up prices on glass. The days of finding $20 Schneider Xenons or Canon Serenars on ebay have been over for years. Even darkroom equipment has seen something of a resurgence. In 2010 one could go on craigslist and find enlargers and developing tanks for free or nearly free any day of the week. It's a different story now, although admittedly all that stuff is still much cheaper than it was to get 2nd hand even so far back as the 90s.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

It was ever thus. When photography went digital, the camera business became more like the fashion business, with new models coming out every year, and new sales to a diminishing customer base needed in order to survive. When you bought a Leica or a Nikon F3, or a Canon F1 as a working pro in the 1980's, you paid as if you expected the camera to last a decade of hard use. For amateurs like me, you probably couldn't wear out a shutter or a set of film advance gears in your lifetime. Electronics were another story. Those Leicas, Nikons, Rolleis etc. were machines that were designed to be repaired. The digicams, not so much. Smaller runs, specialized circuit boards, specialized batteries, evolving storage media. . . We asked for it. And we got it. I have watched my little collection of film gear go up in value, go down, recover etc. At this rate, those Leicas, Rolleis, Hassies, Nikons etc. are probably as much at risk from NOT being used as anything else.

But it is no use lamenting any of this. There are pictures that can be made today that could only be dreamt of by St. Ansel and the greats of the film era. Now if we could just learn to see. . .. but that's a different topic.

 

[Ororaro]

All I can say is that there’s nothing stratospheric anymore about somehing costing 3000$.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

My wife needed a new Cell phone this week, $1000 for a nice smart "flip phone" with 256GBytes of memory. The young woman selling it told us she could not offer a trade-in for the old one.
My Xerox 820-II CP/m computer with 64Kbytes RAM and two 320K floppy disks was $2400 in 1982 and that was with my cousins employee discount.
Digital Cameras: Kodak DCS200ir with 1.6MPixels full-spectrum camera, $12,400 in 1992.

 

[Ororaro]

The only thing that really irks me is today’s price of Xpan center filters, priced around 500$ (but not selling). Would all sell like donuts for 250$, though, which is still crazy.

 

[Timmyjoe]

I've got nieces and nephews in their late twenties and early thirties, they are gobbling up film gear at a remarkable rate. Unfortunately, since they don't have any experience with the gear, many times they are being taken advantage of, buying forty and fifty year old gear that looks clean and nice on the outside, but doesn't function well, or sometimes, even at all.

Best,
-Tim

 

[farlymac]

I sort of came in on the tail end of the low market for high end gear, but still managed to find some good deals. Even today you can discover a really low-ball price on gear in a junk store or antique mart since a lot of their business has decreased due to the customer base aging out, and mark downs can be readily had. Found a Nikon F2AS for $22.00 one day because it had a busted finder release lever. Doesn't matter to me as I rarely take the finder off anyway. My Leica M4-P which was heavily discounted by Igor because it has a tiny dent in the top cover is now worth more than twice what I paid for it. The thing about finding decent pricing is you have to constantly be looking at multiple sources and be ready to pounce because if you don't buy it then, someone else will in about five minutes. Oh, by the way, unless I was totally destitute or completely out of my mind, those are two of the cameras I'll have with me till I drop.

PF

 

[Mos6502]

Wait until some of you find out there's only a few dollars difference in the cost of materials and labor to build a $16,000 hatchback or a $36,000 pickup truck. 😉

As for cameras, unless it was sold by an actual camera shop, I just assume it will not be 100% working, even if the seller claims it is. It's always a gamble buying online.

 

[raydm6]

“Shrinkflation” - smaller packaging/similar price.

I hope that doesn’t happen to cameras. Be too hard to hold! 🙂

 

[Tim Murphy]

“Shrinkflation” - smaller packaging/similar price.

I hope that doesn’t happen to cameras. Be too hard to hold! 🙂

Dear raydm6,

And that is why every single camera I own film or digital that carries a lens longer than 300mm has a battery grip or a motor drive. It has nothing to do with shooting 3 to 5 frames per second most of the time, but everything to do with balancing the camera while handholding it. I just like the extra "Ummph" they provide.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Deleted member 65559]

"May have" We've definitely left the golden age. Look at the current prices of Leica Ms, Rolleiflex, Xpan, Mamiya 6/7.....

 

[chuckroast]

Looking at the gallery of @Jamie Pillers and his many cameras made me think of the early days of my collection, where I knew little about the ins and outs of older film cameras but drooled over them just the same. The secondhand camera market is such that gear we lusted over years ago can now be bought for much less than its original price, but prices have been rising.

There are some things which have inflated over the past ten years or so - Leica R lenses have become highly sought after by video shooters, luxury point and shoots like the Contax T2 and T3 have tripled in price due to their use by celebrities, and others like the TX2/X-Pan are crazy money now. Back in 2008, I passed on a Contax G2 with 28, 45 and 90 and flash in decent condition for about AUD $1200, this same set now sells for about $4000 to $5000. My Contax T3 was about $500 USD in 2006, now they sell for AUD $3000 - $5000! Of course, Leica gear just keeps getting more expensive. I bought my secondhand M7 in 2010 for about $3100, now they go for about $6000.

But we can build a full set of Minolta, Pentax, Konica or Yashica lenses for a very reasonable price, and shoot them on the latest digital bodies or their original film counterparts. Olympus Trips, XAs and SLR's can be bought at markets and pawn shops. Prices are going up, but we can still buy the Pentax SLR we used in the 70s. Deals are out there if we hunt, but I think we've left the golden age of secondhand film gear.

Digital is another story. A Nikon D700 or D610 costs only a few hundred dollars compared with the thousands they once commanded, and they take photos just as beautiful as when they were first produced. The Canon 5D Mark II was about AUD $4000 when it was released in 2009, now you can pick one up for $300-400. I just wonder if digital will suffer the same fate as film gear?

I think there are actually several reasons for this:

1. Declining Demand: Digital equipment rapidly becomes obsolete so the demand for the older stuff goes down.

2. Increasing Demand: Classic film cameras, especially the elite marques like Hasselblad and Leica, are no longer being made and demand for them seems to be going up as a new generation of photographers discover the joy of shooting film and printing silver/platinum/palladium. You can no longer buy new leaf shutters for view cameras, so what's out there is pretty hot. If the equipment is well maintained, it's even more desirable. The guys and gals that know how fix old mechanical cameras and glass are retiring or exiting the business entirely. As just one example. Leicas that have recent CLAs from DAT, YYE, or Krauter command premium prices.

3. Phony Money: The government's lack of self control (aka, the greedy public that wants "free" stuff) has just trashed the value of the US dollar in the past 30 years or so.