pachuco
El ****
Several threads have popped up about the weather sealing (or lack of) on the M8/9. Being a newer used of the digital M, I am very interested in knowing what some of you have done in order to use your M8/9 in harsh environments. I have used Canon gear such as the 20D (not weather sealed either) in pouring rain and as long as I kept drying it off from time to time it worked like a charm. I would like to use my M8 in the same way and I can't tell if all the doomsday talk about the weather sealing is valid. I travel to allot of places where humidity and dust are a problem and normally I only have two bodies and some lenses with me.
In any event, please post what, if any, precautions you take when shooting in rain/dust. Please only respond if you have actual experience with the M8/9 in these conditions. Thanks!
In any event, please post what, if any, precautions you take when shooting in rain/dust. Please only respond if you have actual experience with the M8/9 in these conditions. Thanks!
robklurfield
eclipse
I have no weather sealing tips, but I did have my M8 out in the blizzard here on the East Coast earlier this week. The camera and I were covered in snow rather quickly. A soft dish towel when I got inside and all was well. I kept the M8 under my coat and a M2 in my pocket when I wasn't shooting so that everything wasn't totally saturated. No one is worse for the wear. This is totally unscientific. One empirical sample. Your own results may vary.
the snow on my cap should give you an idea of how heavily it was coming down.
and some more white in my beard (as if I need any more of that) ... this one shot with the M8 and CV 15/4.5 self-pointed at the "snowman."
use common sense. dry everything off carefully when you're done. don't get submerged.
the snow on my cap should give you an idea of how heavily it was coming down.
and some more white in my beard (as if I need any more of that) ... this one shot with the M8 and CV 15/4.5 self-pointed at the "snowman."
use common sense. dry everything off carefully when you're done. don't get submerged.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I carry a plastic bag in my pocket to drape over the camera if the worst comes to the worst. It seems to be a good idea to use a soft relese button to seal the hole for the cable release in the shutter button. For the rest: common sense. The reports of moisture damage are thankfully very, very few.
pachuco
El ****
I have no weather sealing tips, but I did have my M8 out in the blizzard here on the East Coast earlier this week. The camera and I were covered in snow rather quickly. A soft dish towel when I got inside and all was well. I kept the M8 under my coat and a M2 in my pocket when I wasn't shooting so that everything wasn't totally saturated. No one is worse for the wear. This is totally unscientific. One empirical sample. Your own results may vary.
the snow on my cap should give you an idea of how heavily it was coming down.
and some more white in my beard (as if I need any more of that) ... this one shot with the M8 and CV 15/4.5 self-pointed at the "snowman."
use common sense. dry everything off carefully when you're done. don't get submerged.
I love that shot of you with the snowy beard! I saw that on flickr.
Thanks everyone for the advice, it pretty much sums up what I thought. A good dose of common sense and I should be good to go. I could not help but think that all the reports of the M8/9 being a sponge were just overstatements. Never has this camera been offered as a underwater camera or anything remotely close to that.
I will try the ziplock bag trick if need be but I may just invest in a good umbrella. Thanks!
emraphoto
Veteran
i worked on m8's for a year and a half which involved numerous downpours, a couple of minus 30 days with sideways snow and a desert crossing. beyond my out the gate hiccup with the m8 and leicaUSA both m8's performed like champs never failing me once.
pachuco
El ****
@emraphoto - That is good to hear, I was hoping you would share your experiences. Thanks!!
Ben Z
Veteran
Whenever I'm in a hotel I always grab the little disposable shower caps they leave for guests. They work really well as quick rain covers when I'm carrying the camera. (Idea I got from John Shaw...giving credit where it's due).
pachuco
El ****
Just as a covering or do you cut holes in it to shoot? I like this shower cap idea allot. Thanks!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I get in trouble with my wife if I do so...
Jeff S
Well-known
You didn't ask specifically about cold conditions, but most problematic issue can be condensation from cold to warm inside environment. In that case, best to keep camera in bag or under coat as much as possible...or place camera in ziplock bag before coming inside. That's another reason to carry plastic bag.
Jeff
Jeff
pachuco
El ****
Good point Jeff! I will often swelter in a hotel room when traveling someplace hot and humid just so that my cameras don't fog up when I leave the room. How I lustfully look at the A/C unit and curse the heat! Add a mosquito net to the equation and morning can't come soon enough! :bang:
pachuco
El ****
I get in trouble with my wife if I do so...
Ha! I hear that!
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I would somehow cover the hole for the cable release in the shutter button. A softie or piece of cloth tape should do the trick. I don't think there is much you can do beyond that, unless you start to wrap the camera in tape. Just be judicious in how much the camera gets exposed. Carrying a small cloth is a good idea.
Just last week I was shooting at an event in the poring down rain with my M6ttl, M7 and a Nikon F2. All cameras got soaked, yet performed without a problem. I occasionally wiped them off with a handkerchief and draped it over them, when waiting for the action to start.
Also present were press shooters armed with the usual selection of weathersealed pro bodies from Canon/Nikon. As I mentioned, it was pouring down rain, but none of them gave it a second thought.
This got me thinking.
Even if my M6 had gotten completely soaked it would have continued to shoot and after a night of drying would have once again been fully operational.
If on the other hand I had been shooting with a pair of M9 bodies, what would I have done?
The M9 isn't weather-sealed and crammed with electronics. If the M9 gets soaked it will either shut down or short circuit.
Shutting down is a temporary problem, but once the water evaporates it leaves behind minerals that could promote corrosion. You may also lose some very important pictures, because your camera ceased to function at a critical moment in time. If the camera fries itself you are facing a very big repair bill (if you are no longer covered via Passport warranty) and the loss of the camera for several weeks to Solms.
I've said this before and everyone is probably tired of hearing me say this, but I find it mind boggling that in this day and age Leica would produce a digital M body that isn't properly sealed. The M9 is billed as a professional camera. It costs $7500. It is not weathersealed, so essentially you are playing Russian roulette, every time you shoot with it in inclement weather. How retarded is this? Even Pentax manages to weatherproof their sub $1000 models. And no, adding sealing would not change the appearance of the M9, nor drive up the cost by another $1000 or more.
Just last week I was shooting at an event in the poring down rain with my M6ttl, M7 and a Nikon F2. All cameras got soaked, yet performed without a problem. I occasionally wiped them off with a handkerchief and draped it over them, when waiting for the action to start.
Also present were press shooters armed with the usual selection of weathersealed pro bodies from Canon/Nikon. As I mentioned, it was pouring down rain, but none of them gave it a second thought.
This got me thinking.
Even if my M6 had gotten completely soaked it would have continued to shoot and after a night of drying would have once again been fully operational.
If on the other hand I had been shooting with a pair of M9 bodies, what would I have done?
The M9 isn't weather-sealed and crammed with electronics. If the M9 gets soaked it will either shut down or short circuit.
Shutting down is a temporary problem, but once the water evaporates it leaves behind minerals that could promote corrosion. You may also lose some very important pictures, because your camera ceased to function at a critical moment in time. If the camera fries itself you are facing a very big repair bill (if you are no longer covered via Passport warranty) and the loss of the camera for several weeks to Solms.
I've said this before and everyone is probably tired of hearing me say this, but I find it mind boggling that in this day and age Leica would produce a digital M body that isn't properly sealed. The M9 is billed as a professional camera. It costs $7500. It is not weathersealed, so essentially you are playing Russian roulette, every time you shoot with it in inclement weather. How retarded is this? Even Pentax manages to weatherproof their sub $1000 models. And no, adding sealing would not change the appearance of the M9, nor drive up the cost by another $1000 or more.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I doubt it is that simple, Harry. It is a vintage-style built body. There was a piece about the weathersealing of the S2 in LFI. It seems to be not as straightforward as one might think. Anyhow, the only M8 that died of moisture that I know of was destroyed by internal condensation, which would not have been prevented by weathersealing. There are a number of reports of dunked M8s, even more of soaked ones surviving, so it cannot be as bad as all that. Not that I would not highly appreciate weathersealing
ashrafazlan
Established
duct tape is all I can come up with
pachuco
El ****
That's sums up allot of my fears about the M8/9. Oddly, I acquired the M8 to simplify my life, and it still may accomplish that goal, but it is not as simple as I originally thought. In my mind I figured I would make the transition from film M to digital M and that would be that. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would hesitate to use a Leica Rangefinder in any reasonable shooting situation. But it's happened. The even weirder part is that I don't have a solid basis for my hesitation. I've found myself thinking how expensive this camera is going to be to fix if I muck it up. :bang:
What I'm fishing for is evidence that the "fatal flaws" of this new breed of rangefinder has been grossly overstated. I have come to the conclusion that only I can answer that question buy simply continuing to shoot in the exact same way I always have. If I am honest with myself, I will remember that I never sat out in the middle of monsoon with my M3 and just let the water wash over it. I found cover. If I had to shoot in the rain, I just used common sense and wiped down and covered as much as I could. Hell, I've never had a weather sealed Leica, why am I so gosh darn obsessed with it now?
Well, because it's not the same, is it? In the past a CLA would bring your trusty M back to new condition on the inside and you could just be on your way. It cost less and seemed to break down less. I know this process well, I've used it several times with great success. My camera retained it's viability and relevance in the world even 50 years after it was made. It was still worth something and therefore worth fixing even if newer technology came along.
What I don't know is what to do if the digital M breaks down. In this new digital world it already is losing its perceived viability and relevance and therefore much harder for me to want to risk damaging something, and forking out the cash to fix an obsolete product. Is this a flaw in the product, or a flaw in my thinking? Why do I not feel this way about any other product I own? My car is 10 years old and I still fix it. Why should this digital M be any different?
Who knows?! I feel like I'm rambling now and should stop. Perhaps I just needed to vent. Now I'm going to drink a beer and shut up.
emraphoto
Veteran
this is a line of questioning that i truly wish Leica would pay more attention to. my opinion is that they are very viable questions and definitely ones you should be asking if you are working on a particular brand of camera(s).
i passed on Leica's digital cameras due to my service experience. the cameras did exactly what i needed them to do but were let down by LeicaUSA when it came to service and support. i don't forsee myself returning to a digital Leica until they start placing things like weather sealing, battery life and service higher on the priority list.
i re-visited the M8 recently... had it for a month. after a few odd happenings (fixed by battery ejection and recharges etc.) i found myself asking the same questions as above and decided it best to part ways.
i passed on Leica's digital cameras due to my service experience. the cameras did exactly what i needed them to do but were let down by LeicaUSA when it came to service and support. i don't forsee myself returning to a digital Leica until they start placing things like weather sealing, battery life and service higher on the priority list.
i re-visited the M8 recently... had it for a month. after a few odd happenings (fixed by battery ejection and recharges etc.) i found myself asking the same questions as above and decided it best to part ways.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Blizzard
Blizzard
I was on assignment for 5 days this last week to shoot the blizzards here in Philadelphia and I didn't have a single hiccup with the M8. I used a thick clear plastic bag one night and cling wrap the next day. I still managed to not get the camera watertight but the only place where there was moisture to be found was near the strap lugs.
In the near future, I think I'm going to hit a hardware store for some O-rings to provide a bit of a seal around the base of the shutter speed dial and the drive selector switch. As for the buttons and the dial on the back of the camera, I think I may be able to fashion up something using my favorite 3M outdoor double sided tape + a sheet of silicone or polyurethane.
I think the port for the USB cord could be easily sealed using some RTV silicone and delicate working of an X-acto knife. (while still retaining the capability to use the port.)
Phil Forrest
Blizzard
I was on assignment for 5 days this last week to shoot the blizzards here in Philadelphia and I didn't have a single hiccup with the M8. I used a thick clear plastic bag one night and cling wrap the next day. I still managed to not get the camera watertight but the only place where there was moisture to be found was near the strap lugs.
In the near future, I think I'm going to hit a hardware store for some O-rings to provide a bit of a seal around the base of the shutter speed dial and the drive selector switch. As for the buttons and the dial on the back of the camera, I think I may be able to fashion up something using my favorite 3M outdoor double sided tape + a sheet of silicone or polyurethane.
I think the port for the USB cord could be easily sealed using some RTV silicone and delicate working of an X-acto knife. (while still retaining the capability to use the port.)
Phil Forrest
pachuco
El ****
Ugh. I just have to forge on and figure out what I need to do. A M6 never sounded so good, or bad. I would be happy if I could plug a USB cable into a roll of Tri-X!
Please let us know how your weather sealing goes on the M8!
Please let us know how your weather sealing goes on the M8!
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
The biggest problem with this whole DIY weather protection is that when the card gets full or the battery dies, the plastic has to come off & a new card/battery be put in.
I have a suite of 2GB cards and need to get at least one 4GB if for only this reason alone.
As for the battery, I don't know how to solve the problem aside from getting a spare M8 bottom plate, drilling a hole in it, taking a non-OEM battery apart to use as a lead adapter then snake some wires out to a homemade battery pack in a pocket.
We could use whatever batteries suited our needs then according to how much life we wanted in a charge and how heavy we minded our pockets.
Maybe I should start producing these... there's definitely a market.
But I'd rather buy one than build it.
Regarding the weather sealing, it seems like every cell phone company out there has an adequate water/shock resistant covering made of silicone that allows full usage of the little keypads. It can't be that difficult to make. I know that my cell phone has a qwerty keyboard + about 10 other buttons, all of which can be used in a silicone wrap in any color I want.
Phil Forrest
I have a suite of 2GB cards and need to get at least one 4GB if for only this reason alone.
As for the battery, I don't know how to solve the problem aside from getting a spare M8 bottom plate, drilling a hole in it, taking a non-OEM battery apart to use as a lead adapter then snake some wires out to a homemade battery pack in a pocket.
We could use whatever batteries suited our needs then according to how much life we wanted in a charge and how heavy we minded our pockets.
Maybe I should start producing these... there's definitely a market.
But I'd rather buy one than build it.
Regarding the weather sealing, it seems like every cell phone company out there has an adequate water/shock resistant covering made of silicone that allows full usage of the little keypads. It can't be that difficult to make. I know that my cell phone has a qwerty keyboard + about 10 other buttons, all of which can be used in a silicone wrap in any color I want.
Phil Forrest