Spyderman
Well-known
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What a beauty (warning: might cause GAS)
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Michiel
Established
Your link is broken. Remove http://" for it to work 🙂
Welsh_Italian
Established
E
Edward Felcher
Guest
Fake. Hundreds of "ZK" lenses now being listed.
The engravings are too perfect, not correct either.
This started about 5 years ago when ZK "Sonnars" started appearing in quantity for crazy prices.
Caveat Emptor.
The engravings are too perfect, not correct either.
This started about 5 years ago when ZK "Sonnars" started appearing in quantity for crazy prices.
Caveat Emptor.
srtiwari
Daktari
Don't know about GAS, but it is certainly giving me Gas !
Paul T.
Veteran
Do tell us what looks wrong with the ZK lens.
I did own a ZK for the Kiev, which I sold, of course now I wish I hadn't. At that time there were a lot of fakes around, which were usually obvious.
This one was real, altho it post-dates the Zeiss-produced glass, which apparently usually had a Zeiss number engraved on the rear lens group.
I still have the Kneb, complete with 1952 instruction manual...
I did own a ZK for the Kiev, which I sold, of course now I wish I hadn't. At that time there were a lot of fakes around, which were usually obvious.
This one was real, altho it post-dates the Zeiss-produced glass, which apparently usually had a Zeiss number engraved on the rear lens group.
I still have the Kneb, complete with 1952 instruction manual...
Krosya
Konicaze
Edward Felcher said:
Whats not correct about it? I think it's a real thing. I have not seen that many ZK lenses, but I own one, which I know is real, and those few I have seen look like that or similar as best as I can recall. I have also heard good things about that seller as having real and original items. If you know more info on this - please share.
Also, ZK lenses are very rare and I have never seen "hundreds" listed anywhere. Maybe 3-4 max at a time on Ebay and even then - they are expensive and seem to be the same ones from the same sellers. So, I don't see a marked flooded with hunderds of ZKs.
From what I have read, real ZK lenses that were made with Zeiss glass and by Zeiss people were made in 1947-48 and one of the ways to check if it's a real Sonnar originated ZK lens, it should have an odd filter ring size. Just as Sonnars from that era do. Its a 40mm one. Russian copies made after ZK - J-8 have a more common size - if I remember correctly - either 39mm or 40.5mm filter size.
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Krosya
Konicaze
I just took another look at that auction - and that ZK lens looks VERY REAL.
As I said, I have a real one - reason I know that mine is real - is because it came from that factory when my grandfather got it when he worked there. And while mine is 50/2 - rigid version - all engravings look as they do on mine. So, unless glass on that lens was swapped, - it sure looks like a real thing.
As I said, I have a real one - reason I know that mine is real - is because it came from that factory when my grandfather got it when he worked there. And while mine is 50/2 - rigid version - all engravings look as they do on mine. So, unless glass on that lens was swapped, - it sure looks like a real thing.
E
Edward Felcher
Guest
Don't underestimate the cleverness and skill of Ukrainian forgers. They are very good at what they do and they know the equipment.
It's possible also that this is a "frankencamera". Put together out of parts of other cameras. Look at the colors reflected in the glass. That lens would not have this form of multi-coating. The engravings on the front of the lens are too thick and too clear, too white.
I've bought and sold many of them. There is too much wrong with this item.
It's possible also that this is a "frankencamera". Put together out of parts of other cameras. Look at the colors reflected in the glass. That lens would not have this form of multi-coating. The engravings on the front of the lens are too thick and too clear, too white.
I've bought and sold many of them. There is too much wrong with this item.
outfitter
Well-known
You are correct; never ignore Nathan Dayton's warning that most rare Soviet RF cameras should be presumed fake. I have a decent collection of early Feds and lenses (Fed 1a through 1f plus 3 variations of the Fed-S) bought years ago and I still have plenty of questions even though they all look good. The trouble is that the rare ones are truly rare, few people in the West have seen good originals to compare with and the FSU is noted for forgeries - such as world class Leica fakes (not the gaudy obvious ones sold on eBay).Edward Felcher said:
Looking at photos of ZK lenses I have taken off eBay they mostly look like the one under discussion. Looking at the lenses in Prof Sasahi's book (mostly in Contax/Kiev mounts) one notes the lettering is much thinner and not so fresh looking and not as uniformly similar as my eBay photos. 😡
BTW the ZK lenses may have Zeiss mounts but no one knowws whether they also have Zeiss glass so it is not correct to say they are re-badged original Zeiss lenses.
Michael
E
Edward Felcher
Guest
Well, gosh, here's another one!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/FED-ZORKI-Rare-Russian-camera-ZK-lens-1470_W0QQitemZ230005189013
http://cgi.ebay.com/FED-ZORKI-Rare-Russian-camera-ZK-lens-1470_W0QQitemZ230005189013
dee
Well-known
So now they are faking USSR cameras ? So soon it will be profitable to make fake 1948 Fed / Zorkis from old Leica II s ?
ferider
Veteran
There are ways to find out if a ZK lens is original or not:
1) matching serial nr. on the front barrel (i.e. inside the lens)
2) the coating halo (elements are only coated in the center)
Leon is a great seller. I am sure he can confirm, possibly even with photos.
Roland.
1) matching serial nr. on the front barrel (i.e. inside the lens)
2) the coating halo (elements are only coated in the center)
Leon is a great seller. I am sure he can confirm, possibly even with photos.
Roland.
E
Edward Felcher
Guest
They've been faking EVERYTHING since camera collecting started.
dee said:
outfitter
Well-known
Brian Sweeney said:
I'll repeat to you what someone on a Russian watch forum wrote me when I defended a respected antique watch dealer in the Ukraine who was selling a fake (re-dialed) Strela - "he's only the agent for the forgers, its a cottage industry in the Ukraine".
How much an expert do you think these eBay sellers are? Notice how Soviet rarities appear to pop up in bunches like mushrooms after a rain.
As to J-8's in collapsible mounts, the Soviet Union was awash in Sonnars after the war - not much work to convert (Brian you are a pro at that).
Michael
outfitter
Well-known
You appear to be speaking of early coated Zeiss lenses.ferider said:
Prof Saski reports that it is impossible to tell whether the 3K lenses are made of German or Russian elements. Moreover, of the eight 3K lenses surveyed by him only four had "some numbers" inside the lens mount of the type that served as indentification marks to aid assembly at the Zeiss plant.
Unfortunately many opinions are based on looking at fakes rather than the real thing as fakes are more common and more likely to be encountered by Western buyers.
Michael
E
Edward Felcher
Guest
Double plus agreed for Russian watches.
Just search eBay for Military watches if you want to see the most bizarre and fanciful collection of "wartime" watches ever dreamed up over a bottle of vodka.
I repeat, the Ukrainian forgers know their business. They've been creating everything from Russian Ikons (church paintings, not cameras), to watches, to cameras. The things look "better than real".
Since they learned they could take a battered $5 Fed and turn it into a $600 "rarity", the things have been appearing on eBay like clockwork. The sellers might not even know they are faked, although I find it mostly implausible.
If you believe they are real, more power to you, but I would steer clear.
Just search eBay for Military watches if you want to see the most bizarre and fanciful collection of "wartime" watches ever dreamed up over a bottle of vodka.
I repeat, the Ukrainian forgers know their business. They've been creating everything from Russian Ikons (church paintings, not cameras), to watches, to cameras. The things look "better than real".
Since they learned they could take a battered $5 Fed and turn it into a $600 "rarity", the things have been appearing on eBay like clockwork. The sellers might not even know they are faked, although I find it mostly implausible.
If you believe they are real, more power to you, but I would steer clear.
E
Edward Felcher
Guest
PS: Back in 2000 or so, I had personal knowledge that Marc James Small, the expert, was fooled in an eBay auction for a "ZK Sonnar". He paid $300 (quite a bit for that time), for one of the first out and out ZK fakes.
I had bid against him, but then something nagged at me that it didn't look right. I emailed him with the same opinion, but he bought it anyway.
He later emailed me to tell me that I was absolutely correct. It was an extremely well done fake. He realized it after he received it and examined it closely.
You NEVER know what you are getting from Russia or the Ukraine, even if the seller has stellar feedback.
I had bid against him, but then something nagged at me that it didn't look right. I emailed him with the same opinion, but he bought it anyway.
He later emailed me to tell me that I was absolutely correct. It was an extremely well done fake. He realized it after he received it and examined it closely.
You NEVER know what you are getting from Russia or the Ukraine, even if the seller has stellar feedback.
dee
Well-known
I guess that's why I go for restorations or pretenders - at least I know that i am buying ''made new '' bitsas ... but I hope , at least , that my real Leicas are totally genuine ?
I was considering an early Zorki or Kiev , but I have now reconsidered .... thanks
dee
I was considering an early Zorki or Kiev , but I have now reconsidered .... thanks
dee
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
At these prices, maybe Leica should start making copies of FSU cameras... 😉
Chris
Chris
