What do I do with this seller and his camera ?

R

ruben

Guest
Upon my interest in metered Kievs 4, I bought 2 of them from different sellers. for each one I paid around $50 before shipment.

The last one (1962) arrived today with a dis-synchronized shutter, not lifting the curtains at all, nor firing, and only half yellow patch visible, and even at that half not showing any part of a second yellow image. But on the other hand the meter seems to be working quite good.

This leads me to my particular problem with metered Kievs. This trash camera has the only working meter I have on a Kiev. The previous camera seems to be a delikatessen but the meter is erratic or half crazy.

I also got two new sellenium cells from Oleg, but apparently I am doing something wrong in the installation of them as i do not achieve any results. Or, I suspect, the resistors are too worn. Besides I have another two Kievs 4 for which the new cells were destinated. This calls for sending the new cells back to Oleg, with the two metered top castings, for him to install the cells, calibrate, fix, whatever is needed. More time and money costs.

And this brings me back to the new trash camera I got with a working meter.
No problem to exchange the metered top castings of the last 2 I bought and have a nice metered Kiev.

Any ideas?

Now, I am having my recommended for all coffee, and I am not so angry but rather confused. I need an answer breaking down the basic factors, enabling me to re-orient myself again.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Ruben, I have a Kiev 4, that works perfectly, a 35mm, a 50mm and the 85mm. You can have the lot for an offer of around $100USD, it's in the classifieds about to expire. Cheers Andrew
 
While the trash Kiev 4 obviously merits a full refund from the seller, switching parts, in all honesty, would negate the right to return the camera. As a practical matter the postage makes keeping a $50 camera for needed parts a more attractive proposition than returning it - unless (unlikely) the seller will refund postage.

Ah the joys of Russian roulette. I would avoid that seller in the future as the defects were too obvious to admit of an honest mistake - he either doesn't look or doesn't care both fatal defects in a dealer IMO.

Michael
 
Never Satisfied said:
Ruben, I have a Kiev 4, that works perfectly, a 35mm, a 50mm and the 85mm. You can have the lot for an offer of around $100USD, it's in the classifieds about to expire. Cheers Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
But now it is too late for me. But don't loose hope since if I keep the trash one with a working meter, there are chance I will start bombarding our subforum with interesting stuff about metered Kievs.

Be patient, it will come.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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If it was me I'd keep the trash one for those salvagable metering parts. If this is the only one you've come upon with working meter it seems like those parts would come in handy. The above offer seems like a good option to get you a nice body as well- the lenses could certainly return to the classifieds if you get duplicates in the deal.
 
Yep, I would probably keep the good meter and swap it over to the working camera. (Your quite blessed to have the skills and ability to do that.) To me, the shipping cost is the deal breaking downside to returning FSUs. If you don't need another parts camera laying around, you could put the bad meter in the bad camera and sell it cheap to recover a small portion of your cost. You would have more invested in one camera than you originally desired, but at least that one would be a working metered Kiev. Not many of those around, ay?

Good luck. I'm sure whatever you decide will be the right thing for you.
icon14.gif
 
Ruben

If you are going to rebuild Kiev meters you at least need a multimeter. This would allow you to identify what is wrong more exactly, and might help in recalibrating, a Kiev after you replace a part.

I apologise if I am 'teaching Granny how to suck eggs'.

Noel
 
On the metered kiev I have, it was not the cell that was defective, but the variable resistor. The carbon track and substrate were cracked. You may need only to exchange the potentiometer.
 
Xmas said:
Ruben

If you are going to rebuild Kiev meters you at least need a multimeter.........
Noel
Click to expand...


What is a multimeter ?

Cheers,
Ruben

PS
According to Sekonic, a multimeter is one metering flash, incident and reflective and flash through cord. But I am sure these are not the eggs you are refering to.
 
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A potentiometer is a variable resistor, often in the form of a so-called trimmer resistor. It can be very small, and as a rule has a slot allowing for adjustment by a small screwdriver. It has a carbon track and a wiper, allowing it to be set at a certain resistance value within its minimum ( zero ohms) and maximum value (the max value of the carbon track, indicated by its markings). You can (for example) find potentiometers in volume controls on your stereo, but those have a shaft + a knob that extends thru the front panel.

A multimeter is a measurement tool that can be analog or digital - DMM - and allows to you to perform measurements of all kinds (hence "multi") in electrical circuits. Resistance, current, voltage (and sometimes capacitance and even frequency). A DMM can be had at your local Radio Shack supply or at an electronics store. As always - you get what you pay for. More expensive=more functions, and more precise.

HTH /Richard
 
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Thank you Richard

I do have a very good "multimeter" at home. What should I measure specifically in the Kiev 4? What voltage is to be expected ?


As for the "potentiometer" in the Kiev 4, do you mean the brown circular chip below the meter dials ? Or do you mean turning the visible screw at the rectangular meter housing ?

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Ruben, I have absolutely no know-how about the Kiev. I just tried to explain the terms you asked about :) - others will fill in with Kiev-specific info here, I am sure.

Cheers /R
 
Ruben

I'll locate you a circuit diagram for the Kievs exposure meter - next.

The potentiometer is the brown circular thing underneath the circular exposure calculator.

If you still had both your Kiev cells the first step would be to compare them by selecting volts and seeing if both cells gave the same voltage when exposed to the same light. If one gave no volts you would need to store it for later experiments. If the cell in the camera was similar in voltage to a new cell it would not be worth while replacing it. (note in situ there are two resistors across the photo cell, the potentiometer and a fixed resistor, hence the need for the circuit diagram.)

The next step would be to see if the both ends of the pot (potentiometer) were connected (a hair line crack in the substrate would spoil our fun).

I dont recall doing more then checking mine in situ with a multimeter, and resetting the galvometer needle suspension, (the bearings the needle rotates on).

The adjusting screw just moves the paper scale cardboard, so that the meters rest position is the black dot (I think).

First what seems to be wrong with each of you Kievs to hand apart from the one with a cracked potentiometer substrate? Fixing the easy one first will be the easiest...

Noel
I just had one of the meters fail so I understand your problems.l
 
Xmas said:
Ruben

I'll locate you a circuit diagram for the Kievs exposure meter - next.

The potentiometer is the brown circular thing underneath the circular exposure calculator.

If you still had both your Kiev cells the first step would be to compare them by selecting volts and seeing if both cells gave the same voltage when exposed to the same light. If one gave no volts you would need to store it for later experiments. If the cell in the camera was similar in voltage to a new cell it would not be worth while replacing it. (note in situ there are two resistors across the photo cell, the potentiometer and a fixed resistor, hence the need for the circuit diagram.)

The next step would be to see if the both ends of the pot (potentiometer) were connected (a hair line crack in the substrate would spoil our fun).

I dont recall doing more then checking mine in situ with a multimeter, and resetting the galvometer needle suspension, (the bearings the needle rotates on).

The adjusting screw just moves the paper scale cardboard, so that the meters rest position is the black dot (I think).

First what seems to be wrong with each of you Kievs to hand apart from the one with a cracked potentiometer substrate? Fixing the easy one first will be the easiest...

Noel
I just had one of the meters fail so I understand your problems.l
Click to expand...


Many thanks Noel.
Easy to follow instructions.

One commentary. I am asking myself if provided that we take care we cover a Kiev working meter from direct sunlight, the wide angle acceptance angle all embracing (I estimate it something like a 21mm lens) may be good at the last account, something parallel in some sense to the incident way...

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Ruben

The difference between a incident and a reflected meter is

- the reflected is normally calibrated for 18% and has a narrow angle of acceptance
- the incident for a highlight and has a wide acceptance (>180 with a white bubble)

The little black flap on the Kiev shields from the sky a bit. Shooting a 35mm I merely point mine down a little.

If you have a Weston meter the calculator indicates the 'zones' so you could recalibrate the kiev if you wanted, but there might not be enough adjustement.

I use a Weston as I dont keep the zones in my head, I could do but I dont.

Noel
 
Xmas said:
Ruben

The difference between a incident and a reflected meter is
..................

Noel
Click to expand...


Hi Noel,
Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. I will try again. Obviously the Kiev meter is reflective. Kindly follow my way or reasoning about the reflective way.

If you use a spot meter you may be ensuring the main subject will be more or less within range.

If you use a meter with a wider angle of acceptance than a spot you will be enlarging the metered areas. I am not talking about you and your Weston nearing the face of your subject but metering from a distance. Then starts the issue of what areas exactly have you been metering, the substitue metering of your own hand and open one, etc. Trouble.

The Kiev meter presents us with an extremely wide angle of acceptance, and I am asking myself wether this extreme inclusion of so many areas, within a city street, may bring a nice reflective average, making the Kiev meter not a Weston Master, but an effective reference for quick shooting.

Excuss me for my narrowing all issues to the quick and fast, concerning the Kievs, but this is one of the main obstacles in our way, if we want a "Kiev Renaissance". After I am done with this urge, I promise you to get out with my Weston, sorry Euromaster II, and dedicate a full day to slow motion image making on your behalf.

Cheers,
Ruben

Kindly abstain from the argument the Kievs should be used as slow cameras, because I will rebuke that Capa went with Contaxes to WWII.
 
Ruben

Sorry my English not good enough.

I only use the Weston's calculator for the zone compensation, dont bother with a reading. I've stuck the rules on the back of one camera but keep forgetting to do the others. I carry a Weston in case both Kievs meters fail.

If you want to make the Kievs meter incident I suggest you would need to remove the 'sun visor', fit a translucent panel, (from another meter) and point the Kiev away from the subject when you meter.

The panels transmission both compensates for the high light zone and allows near 180 degree acceptance, (the Weston invercone is better then 180 degrees).

If you have a single spot reflective into a white brolly and take a reflective of a 18% subject illuminated by the brolly the meter is (needs to be) more sensitive than if you point it at the brolly (with a translucent panel). If you dont use a panel you will underexpose for the 18% reflectance, the brolly will be brighter than the subject, even if the subject is another (a second) white brolly.

Or that is how I thought incident meters work...

I use the Kiev's for fast candids, always with a j12, they are I give you single shot weapons, not Uzis. This is not a handicap as If I had a lever wind the lady would detect I had taken her photo and hit me.

Noel

P.S. if Capa needed a flare free f/1.5 he needed to use a Contax, there were no Kievs...
 
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