uhoh7
Veteran
I once thought the answer to this was simple
What is a portrait lens for FF or 135?
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tomalophicon
Well-known
Weird poll. I shot a portrait with a 28mm lens the other day.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Your first answer is indeed simple, while pretty accurate...?
f16sunshine
Moderator
Little boxes made of ticky tacky.... Why box this up?
Focal length? 85 and longer begins to eliminate compression in my mind. That's best but, some of my best have been at 40mm with a RF and 50- 210 with a reflex.
Focal length? 85 and longer begins to eliminate compression in my mind. That's best but, some of my best have been at 40mm with a RF and 50- 210 with a reflex.
DamenS
Well-known
Anywhere between 75mm to 135mm would be the "classic portrait focal lengths", and it is a simple question to answer from that perspective.
However, some people with Rangefinders (especially those without Leica M3's) would be loath to use a 135mm for portraiture due to the difficulty of focussing such a lens at close distance with the inherent limitations of a rangefinder design.
However, some people with Rangefinders (especially those without Leica M3's) would be loath to use a 135mm for portraiture due to the difficulty of focussing such a lens at close distance with the inherent limitations of a rangefinder design.
back alley
IMAGES
were you the one talking about this on one of the nikon flickr groups?
just curious...
it's any focal length you choose to use...although traditionally, i think anywhere from 75 to 135 would fit into that category.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
The OP is a NEX user, I don't think he's too concerned with that - (moreover since focus peaking works better at large focal lengths).
pinkarmy
Well-known
i remember some japanese commerical photographers use 300mm for studio portraits.
DamenS
Well-known
Actually he IS interested in that as it was his argument to that effect (that a 135mm equivalent field of view is too long for portraiture) in another thread (and difficulties with Rangefinder coupling at that length) which led directly to him creating this poll. Please, see the thread below:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1794364#post1794364
in which he stated that a 90mm lens on a 1.5x crop camera such as the NEX is far too long to be used for portraiture:
DamenS
Well-known
Yes - I made that point in the other thread ... 200mm and 300mm is quite common for high-end portraiture and fashion shoots, where one is able to garner the requisite distance from the subject.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
In the light of that thread, it seems that the burning question for the OP seems to have been his disagreement with 135mm being called a "classic portrait lens"
("give me a break, the classic portrait lenses are 75 to 105--is that controversial now?")
DamenS
Well-known
LOL - I would say that is both a succinct and accurate summation of the situation. 🙂
Although he did actually go further and state that a 135mm (equivalent) lens is "well beyond a portrait FOV", so I would suggest the argument is not just about whether a 135mm could be called a "classic portrait lens", but whether it is usable for portraiture at all (though he may have backed down a little from that definitive a statement when he said, a little begrudgingly, later that any lens CAN be used for portraiture).
Chris101
summicronia
This seems to becoming about the personality of the OP on threads other than this one. The question prima facially, is about the lens used to take pictures of people. And can't we all agree that the first choice of the poll is correct when that is the definition of portraiture - pictures of people. However if you mean the old-fashioned term, then a much narrower range of focal lengths work best. The exact lens to use depends on several things. The distances involved - not only between the camera and the subject, but also between the subject and the background. The parts of the person to be photographed - tight head shots vs full length and group portraits. The style of portrait - formal with studio lighting vs grungy, punk, drunken master style. And everything in between.
One's portraiture style is a very personal decision.
I see a lot of APS-C digital shooters using an 85mm which has the same look as a 135 on 35mm film. I really like 85 for head and shoulders type studio shots, and anything between 35 to 180 for candids, depending on how tight I want to shoot and how close to my prey I am.
One's portraiture style is a very personal decision.
I see a lot of APS-C digital shooters using an 85mm which has the same look as a 135 on 35mm film. I really like 85 for head and shoulders type studio shots, and anything between 35 to 180 for candids, depending on how tight I want to shoot and how close to my prey I am.
slungu
Established
Chris, you are of course right : it depends on distances and what you want on that picture. I would use a 50mm lens to get the more environmental portrait and a 135mm for a tight portrait. This is why for this task I actually prefer crop cameras : there are a lot of fast 85mm lenses out there, by far more than 135mm, and enough 35mm to get me the equivalents ( of course in the wide angle department it's the other way around ). I also noticed that I can shoot portraits with good subject isolation with APS-C cameras - just have to make sure the background is a little further away 🙂
uhoh7
Veteran
yeah what was i thinking when I shot this with a 28 summicron a month ago?
or
I must have forgotten I thought you could only shoot portraits with a "portrait lens" of 75mm to 105mm--I should have checked in with you to clarify my preconceptions--sry.
And I guess when I read my 1955 canon lens catalog I missed the fact they were idiots for refering to 85s as their portrait lenses.
Or the old kodak manuals which term a portrait lens as 1.5- 2 times the negative diagonal.
I need to get up to speed where the term has utterly no meaning since it can refer to any lens.
you might want to also update those writing the leica copy who don't seem to realise the term now refers to any lens:
"The new 75 mm Summarit-M replaces the portrait focal lengths of 90 -100 mm for digital use"
(yes I understand the m8 is 1.3x and this is why they are pointing this out)
I really was not trying to be nasty, but simply point out that 50s are fantastic portrait lenses on APS-C---and they are cheaper and faster too.
So now, I'm going to sulk away and play with my new 400 telyt normal lens.
BTW which 135s am I supposed to flatten my targets with on the M6?
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I didn't see the discussion in the other thread before it was pointed out here - my guess is that the discussion started more from the label "classic" and whether it extends to 135mm or not. I guess that's more of a question of style to begin with - maybe the "classic" portrait lenses are those that were and are used for "classic" portraits, which suggest 85mm for a torso shot, and 105-135 for a head shot (all relative to full frame).
After all these conventions all developed when photography was more formalized visually than it is now, with less grungy/punk/drunken master style works.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
yeah what was i thinking when I shot this with a 28 summicron a month ago?
or
I must have forgotten I thought you could only shoot portraits with a "portrait lens" of 75mm to 105mm--I should have checked in with you to clarify my preconceptions--sry.
And I guess when I read my 1955 canon lens catalog I missed the fact they were idiots for refering to 85s as their portrait lenses.
Or the old kodak manuals which term a portrait lens as 1.5- 2 times the negative diagonal.
I need to get up to speed where the term has utterly no meaning since it can refer to any lens.
you might want to also update those writing the leica copy who don't seem to realise the term now refers to any lens:
""The new 75 mm Summarit-M replaces the portrait focal lengths of 90 -100 mm for digital use"
(yes I understand the m8 is 1.3x)
I really was not trying to be nasty, but simply point out that 50s are fantastic portrait lenses on APS-C---and they are cheaper and faster too.
So now, I'm going to sulk away and play with my new 400 telyt normal lens.
BTW which 135s am I supposed to flatten my targets with on the M6?
You do sound a bit vitriolic there, in particular the bit where Canon being or not being idiots labeling their 85s "portrait" lenses but also elsewhere. I don't quite understand at what or whom that is directed. Maybe it's just me being dense and not getting it.
Regarding the last question, the range of 135s for the Leica M series is quite big (surprisingly, in a way, seeing how framing and focusing them can get tricky). You have the various 135 Tele-Elmars, the 135 Telyt, the goggled 135 Elmarit, or a LTM adapter and any of the 135mm LTM lenses from Canon, Zeiss, Nikon or the Soviet Union. (A .85x viewfinder is probably a good idea, too.)
DamenS
Well-known
yeah what was i thinking when I shot this with a 28 summicron a month ago?
or
I must have forgotten I thought you could only shoot portraits with a "portrait lens" of 75mm to 105mm--I should have checked in with you to clarify my preconceptions--sry.
And I guess when I read my 1955 canon lens catalog I missed the fact they were idiots for refering to 85s as their portrait lenses.
Or the old kodak manuals which term a portrait lens as 1.5- 2 times the negative diagonal.
I need to get up to speed where the term has utterly no meaning since it can refer to any lens.
you might want to also update those writing the leica copy who don't seem to realise the term now refers to any lens:
"The new 75 mm Summarit-M replaces the portrait focal lengths of 90 -100 mm for digital use"
(yes I understand the m8 is 1.3x and this is why they are pointing this out)
I really was not trying to be nasty, but simply point out that 50s are fantastic portrait lenses on APS-C---and they are cheaper and faster too.
So now, I'm going to sulk away and play with my new 400 telyt normal lens.
BTW which 135s am I supposed to flatten my targets with on the M6?
LOL - be a REAL man, and use a Nikon SLR with the 200mm f2.
Nice way to reverse your argument though in order to attempt a "cheat" win - YOU were the one who claimed anything longer than a 105mm equivalent was unacceptable. I have argued AGAINST this and challenge you to show otherwise - go on, quote me as I've quoted you. I have said that, as I keep saying, 75mm to 135mm is a "classic portraiture lens" and that any lens (including 200 to 300mm lenses can be used). YOU are the one who is saying otherwise and prescribing (do I need to quote you again ?) that a 135mm field of view is "well beyond a portrait FOV" and even started this thread to garner some support for this silly (but clearly impossible to discard on your part) contention. Don't place your own arguments in my mouth and mine in yours and then tell me I'm wrong. LOL. Ridiculous !
No-one is saying Canon are idiots for stating an 85mm is a portrait lens (yet another specious argument on your part), and the term "portrait lens" CERTAINLY has meaning (the meaning being that the classic portrait range is 75mm-135mm) - it's just that you (let's take some personal responsibility here and not blame other people like Canon, Leica and Kodak) were wrong exactly where I said you were wrong, no more and no less, in stating that a 135mm equivalent is "well beyond a portrait FOV".
There's no need to get all "huffy" about being wrong, it happens to most of us (even if we aren't all as vociferous in expressing it and even though some of us are staunchly unable to recognise it or acknowledge it when it happens).
As I explained in the other thread, the Leica words mean that on the Leica M8 the 75mm replaced a 90mm lens on full frame and that a 90mm lens is often considered a "portrait lens" (here they are not wrong, as I have previously said - though a 90mm can do so many other things of course). Read it again ... slowly this time till you understand that Leica is categorically NOT stating that a 90mm equivalent is the only lens suitable for portraits ... just as Canon saying an 85mm lens is a portrait lens is in NO WAY incompatible (as I've said before - I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse now) with other focal lengths also being considered "portrait lenses" - and if you believe Kodak stating that a portrait lens is 2x the diagonal of the format is a "hard and fast" rule - and focal lengths close to this (such as 135mm instead of 105mm) are therefore "WELL BEYOND a portrait FOV" then God help us all - I'm out. I can't change a mind which is so mired in (incorrect) and narrow "rules" and such regal and direct (incorrect) statements about what is and isn't a portrait lens. If you believe your argument that a 135mm is far too long for portraits is right, and that the advice you dispensed was correct then good on you - you've won this argument - well done. I'm out - and off to "flatten my targets" in portraiture the way many other photographers have done for at least 100 years. Good grief !!
PS. As you already know, I have no power to change the ad copy Leica uses to sell their lenses and nor would I want to - as I said, their terminology is correct - a 90mm lens IS suitable for portraiture, it's the READING of it and using that as an inflexible definition of what is and isn't appropriate for portraiture which is wrong. That comes from you, and only one person can change it (hint: It isn't me, it isn't an online poll and it isn't logic ... clearly) !
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
This thread largely seems to be about a dispute between two people.
DamenS
Well-known
Actually it's worse than that - if you scroll up and read the quote I placed in my post, this is not even to do with what a "classic portrait focal length is" and whether or not that includes a 135mm. The direct quote which I questioned from the OP is his advise to somebody that:
a 135mm (equivalent) lens is "well beyond a portrait FOV".
Not whether it is a classic portrait length or not (although it clearly is), but rather whether his advice that a 135mm equivalent lens is actually "WELL BEYOND" a portrait length (clearly ridiculous and wrong, but unable to be admitted by OP), which is just ... well, I think we can say that's just plain wrong.
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