Considering all variables
including price, image quality, reliability, availability of future repairs, future resale value etc,
what is your choice for the best value in digital rangefinder cameras?
including price, image quality, reliability, availability of future repairs, future resale value etc,
what is your choice for the best value in digital rangefinder cameras?
presspass
filmshooter
A wonderful question. I voted M8 simply because that's the one I have, and have had since it came out. It has the usual quirks, but I've learned to deal with them. Right now it's the best value for me because I don't have to spend anything to get it. Were I to be starting afresh, this might not be my answer.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
I voted for the Epson RD-1 family because the question was "The best Value" Put a good lens on one and stay within it's limits and the IQ is as good as anything out there for all practical purposes and the price is a tiny fraction of any of the Leicas.
Austerby
Well-known
I think the M8 is best value: it has it's limitations, particularly around ISO, but delivers wonderful files and image quality, especially in monochrome. It's so good that I've not found its successors to offer substantive improvements for me so I've stuck with it.
On a simple price/image capability measure it has to provide the best ratio, in my opinion at least.
On a simple price/image capability measure it has to provide the best ratio, in my opinion at least.
Vickko
Veteran
I have an M9 that I love, but gotta admit, the Pana GF1 is used the most.
Chris Bail
Regular Guy
I love my M9, but considering all factors, I have to say the M8 is the best value. My R-D1 was a wonderful camera as well, but availability of parts and service would be a concern.
Corran
Well-known
A cropped sensor represents no value at all, in my opinion.
Lss
Well-known
This somewhat depends on one's lens needs, but overall I think it is still the M8. The R-D1 is quite close, but even a bigger victim to "depends on what you need".
Pioneer
Veteran
In my opinion the Leica M-E is probably the best value in a digital rangefinder. It is still available new, it is full frame, and even though it could be improved there is a worldwide parts and service program in place.
I would certainly have voted for the Epson if it were still out there and available worldwide.
I would certainly have voted for the Epson if it were still out there and available worldwide.
rbelyell
Well-known
imo, rd1 and m8 are 'equally depends on what you need' cameras as the rd1 delivers better high iso and m8 files are larger. but if you add both price of purchase and price of repair rd1 pulls away by a fair margin.
@Pioneer: the rd1x is available new quite easily, and btw for under $1200. the rd1s and x are still being serviced by epson.
@Pioneer: the rd1x is available new quite easily, and btw for under $1200. the rd1s and x are still being serviced by epson.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Leica M (typ 240)
Why is it the best value?
- Its sensor produces better results with a wider range of Leica M-mount and threaded-mount lenses than any of the others. It is also eminently useful with the full range of Leica R lenses, which are outstanding quality.
- Both its hardware and firmware is under ongoing development for future products. (While Leica is working on the M9/M9-P/M-E/M Monochrom sensor issue, I don't think there are any new products intended for release based on that series technology. The M (typ 240) is what new products that aren't just a cosmetic treatment will be based on going forward.)
- Its reliability and repair history is better than all prior Leica digital M models as well as the Epson R-D1 models.
- Parts and service for the M (typ 240) will be available for a long time to come; there are limits on both for the Epson and M8 series cameras already.
- The M (typ 240) is more versatile, more sensitive, and more robust than any of the prior models. (Video capture, weather sealing, GPS interface, Live View, etc etc all enhance and expand upon the capabilities of the basic Leica M camera model.)
Sometimes, the best value costs more.
BTW, why not put the correct and proper name for the Leica M (typ 240) in the list as well as all three nicknames? And you missed the Leica M Edition 60 (typ 240) in the list.
G
... When I upgrade from the M9 to the typ 240 series, I'll go with the M-P model because even if it is a bit more expensive than the M, the durability of the LCD cover glass, reinstatement of the frame line selector lever, and improvements in buffering space and speed will be worth the additional money for a long term purchase.
Why is it the best value?
- Its sensor produces better results with a wider range of Leica M-mount and threaded-mount lenses than any of the others. It is also eminently useful with the full range of Leica R lenses, which are outstanding quality.
- Both its hardware and firmware is under ongoing development for future products. (While Leica is working on the M9/M9-P/M-E/M Monochrom sensor issue, I don't think there are any new products intended for release based on that series technology. The M (typ 240) is what new products that aren't just a cosmetic treatment will be based on going forward.)
- Its reliability and repair history is better than all prior Leica digital M models as well as the Epson R-D1 models.
- Parts and service for the M (typ 240) will be available for a long time to come; there are limits on both for the Epson and M8 series cameras already.
- The M (typ 240) is more versatile, more sensitive, and more robust than any of the prior models. (Video capture, weather sealing, GPS interface, Live View, etc etc all enhance and expand upon the capabilities of the basic Leica M camera model.)
Sometimes, the best value costs more.
BTW, why not put the correct and proper name for the Leica M (typ 240) in the list as well as all three nicknames? And you missed the Leica M Edition 60 (typ 240) in the list.
G
... When I upgrade from the M9 to the typ 240 series, I'll go with the M-P model because even if it is a bit more expensive than the M, the durability of the LCD cover glass, reinstatement of the frame line selector lever, and improvements in buffering space and speed will be worth the additional money for a long term purchase.
raid
Dad Photographer
A used M9 is now a bargain. Is it? I was going to vote for the M8, but the M9 offers a higher satisfaction level for me.
rscheffler
Well-known
M240 bought used or as a Leica demo. I agree with Godfrey's points and only wish the M-P's features would have been included in the original M240 (particularly the buffer).
Having recently transitioned from an M9 to the M240, the M240 improves on the M9 in many factors of usability. It feels and operates faster and is quieter. It has fewer quirks, and those it has, are not significant (at least for me).
But I'd vote the M9 as a close second, primarily because base ISO image quality is on par with the M240 (other than extreme dynamic range situations) and it's significantly less expensive on the used market, therefore an easier entry point into digital RF.
With both you're not dealing with crop factors and getting the 'full effect' from the lens.
Having recently transitioned from an M9 to the M240, the M240 improves on the M9 in many factors of usability. It feels and operates faster and is quieter. It has fewer quirks, and those it has, are not significant (at least for me).
But I'd vote the M9 as a close second, primarily because base ISO image quality is on par with the M240 (other than extreme dynamic range situations) and it's significantly less expensive on the used market, therefore an easier entry point into digital RF.
With both you're not dealing with crop factors and getting the 'full effect' from the lens.
fireblade
Vincenzo.
Corran
Well-known
No value is different than no use.
You have your opinion, I have mine...
I certainly will never bother with such a camera.
You have your opinion, I have mine...
I certainly will never bother with such a camera.
f16sunshine
Moderator
If Value means dollars spent per output delivered. The M8 is at this point in time the easy choice. M8 Prices now being close to RD1 prices.
If value means Dollars spent for user satisfaction... It's totally subjective (I still choose M8).
I had a great run with the M8 and may take another one some day.
The M9 was not enough of an "upgrade" for me to jump with the lenses I was using.
I thought I would like the full frame but, after a 10 day test drive I just could not find the reason at the time to double down financially (2010 prices of M8vs M9).
The M8 around $1200-$1500. Pretty tough to beat it.
If value means Dollars spent for user satisfaction... It's totally subjective (I still choose M8).
I had a great run with the M8 and may take another one some day.
The M9 was not enough of an "upgrade" for me to jump with the lenses I was using.
I thought I would like the full frame but, after a 10 day test drive I just could not find the reason at the time to double down financially (2010 prices of M8vs M9).
The M8 around $1200-$1500. Pretty tough to beat it.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
The size of the sensor is utterly irrelevant in this context.
Corran
Well-known
Maybe it doesn't to you.
But if one owns and wants to use a set of lenses as they were intended, it does indeed make a difference.
But if one owns and wants to use a set of lenses as they were intended, it does indeed make a difference.
Monochrom
Well-known
The m9...
Being Full Frame i can use many great and inexpensive 50mm lenses like the J-8....if i use a cropped camera i´ll have to buy more expensive lenses that will try to match FF lenses performance but never will succeed.
So for me the m9 has the best value! it has the best perfomrance but also is the cheaper to use.
Bye!
Being Full Frame i can use many great and inexpensive 50mm lenses like the J-8....if i use a cropped camera i´ll have to buy more expensive lenses that will try to match FF lenses performance but never will succeed.
So for me the m9 has the best value! it has the best perfomrance but also is the cheaper to use.
Bye!
raid
Dad Photographer
The M8 remains a great camera. I make use of the 33% crop factor when I use side by side the M8 and M9 on trips. This doubles for me the choices of focal lengths with half the number of lenses.