What's up with Contaxes IIa/IIIa

[HuubL]

Everybody seems to be selling his/her Contax IIa/IIIa lately. I count five in last weeks classifieds. Don't we want them no more? I have a IIa color dial myself and it's a wonderful camera. In their days they used to be more expensive than contemporary Leicas and their build is of equal (if not better) quality. Their asking prices here seem to be very modest, yet they
don't seem to sell...

What's up??

 

[Brian Legge]

I was wondering the same thing.

I just picked up a Kiev 4a from 1960 and shot a roll with it yesterday for the first time. Nice solid feeling camera. I'd had a strong desire to try one since early in the year, when I came across a Contax III in need of repair. I couldn't afford to have it fixed up but just handling it made me want to try shooting something like it.

My only complaints with the Kiev are about the degree of force needed to change the shutter speed and how loud the camera is. It also jumps in my hand a bit when pressing the shutter though I don't know if that will come across in shots or not as I haven't developed that roll yet.

 

[ZeissFan]

I have too many Contaxes and not enough cash. Plus, I needed to raise some money to pay for an Alpa that I recently bought.

That's why I sold my extra cameras.

I still have my everyday black dial IIa, a color dial IIa, a black dial IIIa, color dial IIIa and an anniversary color dial IIa, plus a Contax II, early Contax I, late model Contax I, two Contax III and a Contaflex TLR.

I'm also planning to sell an extra Tenax II in the next month or so. And I'm at the moment trying to unload a Super Kodak Six-20 (white elephant in this economy) and a couple of Rolleiflex TLRs.

As well, I'll probably sell an extra f/2.0 Zeiss-Opton Sonnar, possibly another postwar 135mm Sonnar and a few other items that aren't seeing use.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Wow reading my mind.....for years I waited for a really nice one to show up and now there are a number of them that look nice. Maybe its the perceived difficulty in finding a good tech to CLA them.......if I didn't a IIa and a IIIa I would have bought one.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Contaxes are like Rolls Royces: a triumph of engineering over design.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Brian Legge]

I sold the III earlier in the year based purely on the cost I was seeing to get the ribbons repaired. Most of the numbers were in the $300 range. Now that I have a little more experience with repair, I may have been able to get it running myself. Rather annoying given how little I got for it.

 

[wlewisiii]

I'm also planning to sell an extra Tenax II in the next month or so.

Now that's painful to read knowing that unless I win the lotto, there's now way I can afford that. I'd certainly love a black dial IIa & Tessar but a Tenax II? Those have always just seemed to be the single most interesting 35mm camera made.

You wouldn't be looking to sell an uncoated 50/2 Sonnar would you? I've been looking for one for Brian to put in a J8 shell.

 

[D.O'K.]

"Contaxes are like Rolls Royces: a triumph of engineering over design."

Roger has it exactly.

Beautifully made but with very awkward (if not perverse) ergonomics: e.g the counter-intuitively directed focus wheel. The viewfinders are also dim and squinty compared with the Leica M series (although it's an unfair comparison given the lla was initially competing with the LTM series), cover 50mm only and have no parallax correction: etc.

They're also more complex than the Leica, meaning there's more to go wrong. This tends to make them less reliable and/or repairable 50+ years on.

But I wouldn't be without mine, which I love because (as well as in spite) of all its design limitations. And which real motoring enthusiast wouldn't want a RR, even if they usually left it garaged and went out in something better designed but rather more mundane?

Regards,
D.

 

[raid]

I prefer to keep my "Rolls Royce" cameras until they cannot be used anymore.

 

[Highway 61]

What's up??

I have owned up to five Contax IIa (four black dial and one colour dial), one Contax IIIa, two Contax II and one Contax III.

Now I'm left with one black dial IIa, one black dial IIIa, and one II. I've also sold three 50 Sonnars, a 35 Biogon (prewar), a 85 Sonnar and a 85 Triotar. I still have three 50 Sonnars, a 35 Biogon (postwar), a 21 Biogon and a 135 Sonnar, with some external finders and other accessories.

I must say that even down to three Contax bodies and the lenses mentioned above I don't find the time to use that stuff very often.

I may sell the IIIa one of these days - I haven't made up my mind about it yet.

I don't think it's related to what can be said here and there about the difficulty to service those cameras. Once you are getting familiar with servicing vintage cameras, the Contaxes aren't a problem. Once you master the ribbons replacement job on a Contax II shutter, you have the skills to service a IIa or a IIIa - speaking in terms of difficulty level.

Collecting and servicing the cameras you acquire one after another asks time. Much time. Time isn't for sale at any shop around the corner. So, I now prefer using my remaining time at taking photos and processing my negatives.

 

[ZeissFan]

Ah yes, well said. When you're young, you have all of the time in the world. Or so you think. As you get older, time seems more precious, and like you, I'd rather put it to using the cameras and not just servicing them.

That said, the postwar Contaxes are fairly simple to service. It just takes time and care. I usually put aside about four hours for each camera for a total stripdown and rebuild.

 

[Peter R]

I've been put off buying Contaxes myself due to the real or imagined hassle of finding somebody able to service them. If I thought getting them repaired by a trusted person was as relatively easy as an old Leica (and that's already not super simple here in Australia?), I'd have bought one by now. Mike - seems you'd always have an alternative career option if you offered these 4-hour services professionally.

Even then, I still might get one at some point. My 50's Contaflex is an odd (by todays expectations) but impressive bit of engineering, capable of some wonderful photographs, and I wouldn't mind experiencing the RF product from the same people.

 

[Highway 61]

Actually the Contaxes suffer from a hoax that has been sprayed over the Internet telling that they were extraordinarily complex cameras and that only one person in the world could service them properly. That was of course a basic trick to gather customers onto a 4-5 years waiting list (and as it worked out, it was seen as Holy Truth).

Hey - they're cameras made back in the 1930s and 1950s, not the product of some alien "Plan-9 from outer space" industry.

OTOH there is another incredibly friendly guy over there (people who know him will guess whom I speak of) who made some sketches and photos he had taken while stripping down his own Contaxes readily available for anybody interested.

What Mike told is perfectly true : about 4 hours, a set of precision screwdrivers, some precision tweezers, some proper solvants and lubricants, a syringe, a good lamp, some new black foam strips, some Q-tips, a set of spanners and some other basic tools, a clean and large workbench, patience and care, and you're done.

The ribbons replacement job on the Contax II takes more time but not much afterall. There are several well known sources for cheap new ribbons that fit the Contax shutter perfectly.

Of course you might have to face some unexpected problems (screws heads that break, Contax II first curtain drum roller spring to replace, plano-concave element of the rangefinder that comes unglued during the service, etc) but this is quite unavoidable, even on Leicas (just try to remove the old vulcanite off a Leica without having it torn into pieces like a sheet of glass and you'll see by yourself).

 

[bucs]

Actually the Contaxes suffer from a hoax that has been sprayed over the Internet telling that they were extraordinarily complex cameras and that only one person in the world could service them properly. That was of course a basic trick to gather customers onto a 4-5 years waiting list (and as it worked out, it was seen as Holy Truth).

true.

i wanted to buy a contax iia before but because of the stated reason above i am now leaning more on to the leica screwmounts. plus i think the leica screwmounts have more cheap alternatives to their lenses like the russian made ones. not to spark a debate here but i just wanted to state my situation since i'm looking to buy my first leica or contax (graduation gift! )

but who knows haha the contax iia really looks good and the images produced by the sonnar are just amazing.

 

[Roger Hicks]

It may well be true that you can strip, clean and overhaul a Contax in four hours, the third or fourth time you do it, if nothing goes wrong, but it'll take longer the first time and there is indeed always the chance of something going wrong.

Thirty or forty years ago, very few repairers would touch Contaxes because (a) they are mechanically wilfully complicated and (b) few customers were willing to spend the kind of money needed to do the job properly and guarantee the work. Sure, anything except the shutter is/was eventually reparable, but that awful roll-top-desk with the variable speed and slit-width was/is a repairer's nightmare. And they haven't got more reliable in the last three or four decades. So it's not an 'internet hoax' that they're complicated. Source: I used to collect Leicas in the 70s and I talked to a LOT of repairers, and I have been inside a (broken) Contax myself, as described in my A History of the 35mm Still Camera, The Focal Press, 1984 (well pre-internet!).

Cheers,

R.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Essex cameras did a great job repairing a couple of Contax bodies for me. I sold mine, ultimately, though, because the camera is pretty much unusable if you wear glasses (which I do). Otherwise, a well running Contax is a joy to use.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Good to hear that Essex can handle Contax work. I have used them for other brands and they are professional and happen to be close by.

 

[Highway 61]

So it's not an 'internet hoax' that they're complicated. Source: I used to collect Leicas in the 70s and I talked to a LOT of repairers, and I have been inside a (broken) Contax myself, as described in my A History of the 35mm Still Camera, The Focal Press, 1984 (well pre-internet!).

First, what I call "Internet hoax" is the one that tells that only one person in the world can repair Contaxes the way they ought to.

Second, it depends on which Contax you speak of. The Contax IIa shutter isn't that complicated, it works with a basic system of cams driving the shutter shafts and the slow speeds escapement is a remote timer module that can be cleaned on its own.

Basically it's a Leica screw mount with a vertically running shutter (and a better viewfinder/rangefinder unit).

Problem is that the vertically running shutter relies on high friction because of the shorter travel of the shutter curtains and that the least delay in the first curtain journey departure makes the shutter cap and 1/1250 and 1/500 speeds don't work. Some corrosion in the sealed first curtain shaft can be a major problem because the shaft housing cannot be dissassembled for cleaning.

The Contax II shutter geartrain with its integrated slow speeds escapement is dramatically complicated, yes, but basically you never have to strip it down - a deep clean-up and typical relube at the shafts ends and at some other plances is enough because of how this very particular shutter works.

Most problems on the Contax II regard the shutter ribbons, the first curtain drum roller spring, and the shutter blades thin leather cords, but everything there can be replaced.

Source : I have myself been in five not working Contax II, one not working Contax III, four not working Contax IIa, and two not working Contax IIIa. All of them got back to normal work (and still do), including the III and IIIa lightmeter. And I'm just an amateur repairer, like Mike and some others out there.

I sometimes had to spend more than four hours on a camera but probably because I sometimes paid very much attention to each detail and often preferred to allow myself to rest between the service sessions.

 

[Roger Hicks]

First, what I call "Internet hoax" is the one that tells that only one person in the world can repair Contaxes the way they ought to.

Second, it depends on which Contax you speak of. The Contax IIa shutter isn't that complicated, it works with a basic system of cams driving the shutter shafts and the slow speeds escapement is a remote timer module that can be cleaned on its own.

Basically it's a Leica screw mount with a vertically running shutter (and a better viewfinder/rangefinder unit).

Problem is that the vertically running shutter relies on high friction because of the shorter travel of the shutter curtains and that the least delay in the first curtain journey departure makes the shutter cap and 1/1250 and 1/500 speeds don't work. Some corrosion in the sealed first curtain shaft can be a major problem because the shaft housing cannot be dissassembled for cleaning.

The Contax II shutter geartrain with its integrated slow speeds escapement is dramatically complicated, yes, but basically you never have to strip it down - a deep clean-up and typical relube at the shafts ends and at some other plances is enough because of how this very particular shutter works.

Most problems on the Contax II regard the shutter ribbons, the first curtain drum roller spring, and the shutter blades thin leather cords, but everything there can be replaced.

Source : I have myself been in five not working Contax II, one not working Contax III, four not working Contax IIa, and two not working Contax IIIa. All of them got back to normal work (and still do), including the III and IIIa lightmeter. And I'm just an amateur repairer, like Mike and some others out there.

I sometimes had to spend more than four hours on a camera but probably because I sometimes paid very much attention to each detail and often preferred to allow myself to rest between the service sessions.

Sorry, misinderstood you. But even so, you cannot deny that (for example) the rangefinder coupling linkage is extraordinary complex and relies on first-class engineering with tiny, tiny tolerances in order to work at all. I did not mean to denigrate those who can repair them: indeed, I salute you.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Highway 61]

Well if there is something particularly reliable, efficient, very superior to what Leica made and almost impossible to get out of specs on a Contax - unless age has some glass elements come unglued but this happens on Leicas as well - it's "the rangefinder coupling linkage" which relies on some very clever and actually quite basic geartrains...

The rangefinder (and the viewfinder/rangefinder combined unit) is just what makes the Contaxes so interesting over their contemporary Leicas.

Are you sure you know those cameras actually ?