Which camera for 28 and 50mm?

[piero2025]

Hello,

I am shopping for a camera. The focal lenghts I like are exclusively 28mm and 50mm (the 28 much more than the 50).

Many excellent fixed lens rangefinders exist in 35mm, but my eye just does not see the world in 35mm. 28mm is the ideal lens for me.

The idea is that I shoot many photos "instinctively" in 28mm and I forget to check the framelines. My brain considers that the photo is what it sees in the whole finder. When 28mm is the largest set of framelines, that is not a problem - I don't get crop.

With the 50mm, my photos are much less instinctive and I don't forget to look at the frame lines.

If a point and shoot rangefinder existed in 28mm, I would get that and a second 50mm point and shoot (of which many excellent ones exist), which could easily fit in a practical soft case, but the shortest point and shoot I know of is 35mm.

What to buy? To the best of my knowledge, these are my options:

- Zeiss Ikon ZM, perfect viewfinder (the 28mm is the largest set of framelines ) but the focus system on rangefinder can get out of whack quite easily, and you cannot fix it yourself, which is a big no-no for me. I am quite surprised that German engineers thought acceptable sending the camera back just for calibrating focus
- Konica Hexar - same as above
- Leica - 28mm is the larget set of framelines, you can fix focus yourself, but I could buy two or more cameras of other brands for the same money
- Bessa R2/3: don't have 28mm framelines, can fix focus yourself. To which degree 28mm corresponds to the whole finder? That could work for me - I would instinctively do the right framing
- Bessa R4: 28mm is an intermediate set of framelines, my eye would instinctively go for the 21mm framelines and the photo would be cropped.
- Contax G2: it's a toy camera, nobody fixes it anymore, the batteries are a nightmare ecc.
- Others?

 

[Archiver]

Normally I would recommend a Zeiss Ikon, but mine bricked itself for no reason one day No shutter, no speed display in viewfinder, nothing. Apart from that, it's a super camera with a huge viewfinder that feels excellent in the hand. I would have shot with it forever if it hadn't randomly died.

 

[Godfrey]

Placing such a high importance on "fix it yourself" capability is a little absurd to me. ALL the manufacturers recommend sending their cameras back to a trained technician in order to collimate and calibrate rangefinder focus, when it is needed.

The truly curious thing to me is that I read so many many posts about having to have a rangefinder calibrated. I don't know what I'm doing differently, but in 50+ years of doing photography—much of it with Leica RF cameras—I've only had to have a rangefinder collimated and calibrated maybe two times.

Although the price is high, you simply can't go far wrong with a Leica M ... and despite the high price, they hold their value. The best deals are secondhand Ms from a credible, trusted dealer. And the range of different 28mm and 50mm lenses available in M-bayonet mount, so you can choose exactly the right one for your rendering tastes, make it a no-brainer.

G

 

[wlewisiii]

Lecia CL - I used the whole frame while shooting with the Canon 28/3.5. It's as easy to fix as any other Leica and is the cheapest of the bunch, even cheaper if you get one with a dead meter.

But I agree, it's almost never an issue unless the camera is seriously abused.

These days my M 240 and my Kobalux 28/3.5 or Nikkor 28/3.5 are my 28 combo of choice.

 

[ellisson]

If you want autofocus capability and are not confining your options to rangefinders, consider a Leica SL or SL2, or SL2-S camera (IBIS in the SL2 and SL2-S). You can go manual, autofocus, and can use just about any lens you want: M-mount, R-mount (with M to L and R to L adapters) and of course, the excellent L-mount lenses by Leica, Sigma, Panasonic, and others. Your options are wide open. Prices are down on all of these cameras on the used market. But....they are bigger cameras. Not huge, though

 

[piero2025]

If you want autofocus capability and are not confining your options to rangefinders, consider a Leica SL or SL2, or SL2-S camera (IBIS in the SL2 and SL2-S). You can go manual, autofocus, and can use just about any lens you want: M-mount, R-mount (with M to L and R to L adapters) and of course, the excellent L-mount lenses by Leica, Sigma, Panasonic, and others. Your options are wide open. Prices are down on all of these cameras on the used market. But....they are bigger cameras. Not huge, though

Thanks, I prefer film cameras.

 

[Tuna]

Leica Q3 (or Q2M if you only shoot B&W). About $800 more than buying a 28 Summilux but with a camera attached.

 

[Beemermark]

M7 or MP with the 0.52x VF. I have the MP. Hard to find and expensive when you do find it.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

You could buy much more than two cameras, they will still not do what single Leica could do.
Been where, done it.

 

[Graham Line]

Minolta CLE has good framelines for 28mm. So does the M4-P.

 

[Richard G]

Since you want film and 28 or 50 and a good M is very steep price now, a good IIIf with an external finder is a fantastic street or instinctive shooting camera. Once you you get used to the advance wind knob it’s quick enough. The rangefinder fills the rangefinder window, not just a patch, but often just scale focus is enough at 28mm focal length. Shooting with an external finder is a very nice experience. The SBOOI 50 finder never comes off many of these cameras with a coated 50 Elmar still a great lens, very sharp and I think the best bokeh.

 

[Coldkennels]

A screwmount Leica and an external finder seems like a solution to this from where I'm sitting.

1. cheap - a lot cheaper than a Leica M
2. incredibly easy to calibrate at home
3. Widely repaired by technicians all over the world
4. the rangefinder is 1.5x magnified with no framelines, so you're not going to get confused

Also, as a bonus, they're smaller than any of the cameras you mentioned.

I primarily shoot with a 28mm and 50mm combo and this setup has honestly worked far better for me than any M (the fact I can't see the 28mm framelines on an M at all is part of the reason for that, in all fairness).

 

[DownUnder]

My Contax G1 with a 28/2.8 Zeiss Biogon G does everything I want it to.

The Gs are anything but a 'toy' camera. They were used by many pros in the '90s and '00s, many weddings were photographed with them as they were quiet and fast. As for batteries, I replace mine every couple of years, but (1) I don't use the cameras overly much, (2) I take the batteries out of the camera when the latter aren't in use, and (3) I buy brand name first rated batteries, not cheapo Dinky Toy ones from discount stores. Read and heed.

Someone here has recommended a G2. Well and good if you have the extra cash, but for my money's worth, a G1 does 95%+ of what the G2 can, for much less and the 28 is a fine lens.

I have other G lenses - 21/2.8, 35/2.0 and 90/2.8, but rarely use them. The G1/28 combo is my ideal walk around lens when I want a holiday from using digital and feel like souping one or two rolls of film in my home darkroom, sadly nowadays too little used.

The G1 bodies sell for very little. Mine have kept going without fail for 25 years, but if one breaks down you can buy a new (secondhand) one for very little dosh. The Zeiss G lenses cost a small mint (at least here in Australia), but they are worth every dollar you have to spend on them.

If I had only one film camera-lens system to play with, for sure it would be a G1/28.

(Added later) Another good option would be one of the older (+/- 20 years old) Ricohs. I know two people who use these, and both say the cameras will finally have to be pried from their cold, dead hands.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

... The focal lenghts I like are exclusively 28mm and 50mm (the 28 much more than the 50). ...

What to buy? To the best of my knowledge, these are my options:

- Zeiss Ikon ZM, perfect viewfinder (the 28mm is the largest set of framelines ) but the focus system on rangefinder can get out of whack quite easily, and you cannot fix it yourself, which is a big no-no for me. I am quite surprised that German engineers thought acceptable sending the camera back just for calibrating focus
- Konica Hexar - same as above
- Leica - 28mm is the larget set of framelines, you can fix focus yourself, but I could buy two or more cameras of other brands for the same money
- Bessa R2/3: don't have 28mm framelines, can fix focus yourself. To which degree 28mm corresponds to the whole finder? That could work for me - I would instinctively do the right framing
- Bessa R4: 28mm is an intermediate set of framelines, my eye would instinctively go for the 21mm framelines and the photo would be cropped.
- Contax G2: it's a toy camera, nobody fixes it anymore, the batteries are a nightmare ecc.
- Others?

IMHO, based on your requirements, there are only two options:
- Leica M4-P (meterless M6)
- Leica M6 (metered M4-P)

I'm not a fan of any non Leica M-mount option - mainly for long-term reliability, but there are other reasons too I won't get into.

But there is a third option: a freshly CLA'd Leica M5. Use the entire frame for a 28mm lens (although not all M-mount 28mm lenses are usable); it has a meter and you can still get one in good condition for around $1,300 (US).

 

[Darthfeeble]

I'm a big fan of the Bessa R that I have, it doesn't have 28mm frame lines so I use the attached finder for the few times I want critical framing. 98.5 % of the time I just put what I want in the middle of the picture in the middle of the finder and shoot away. Maybe I'm just not a good photographer but I think the dependency on frame line with wide angle lenses is wishful thinking.

 

[Bingley]

Since you want film and 28 or 50 and a good M is very steep price now, a good IIIf with an external finder is a fantastic street or instinctive shooting camera. Once you you get used to the advance wind knob it’s quick enough. The rangefinder fills the rangefinder window, not just a patch, but often just scale focus is enough at 28mm focal length. Shooting with an external finder is a very nice experience. The SBOOI 50 finder never comes off many of these cameras with a coated 50 Elmar still a great lens, very sharp and I think the best bokeh.

This^^^. I use both 28 and 50 lenses on my IIIc cameras, and they’re fast shooters. Just invest in external viewfinders for each focal length and you’re good to go.

 

[Freakscene]

Normally I would recommend a Zeiss Ikon, but mine bricked itself for no reason one day No shutter, no speed display in viewfinder, nothing. Apart from that, it's a super camera with a huge viewfinder that feels excellent in the hand. I would have shot with it forever if it hadn't randomly died.

Zeiss is still repairing the ZMs. You could get it repaired.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

A Barnack or two, with shoe mounted finder/s. I love my pair of Leotaxes, one a T2V, the other kind of unknown as I am not sure which nomenclature fits, but it doesn't have slow speeds not a self timer. I regularly use this pair with a 50mm and a 21mm.
They are extremely repairable.
Phil

 

[piero2025]

A screwmount Leica and an external finder seems like a solution to this from where I'm sitting.

1. cheap - a lot cheaper than a Leica M
2. incredibly easy to calibrate at home
3. Widely repaired by technicians all over the world
4. the rangefinder is 1.5x magnified with no framelines, so you're not going to get confused

Also, as a bonus, they're smaller than any of the cameras you mentioned.

I primarily shoot with a 28mm and 50mm combo and this setup has honestly worked far better for me than any M (the fact I can't see the 28mm framelines on an M at all is part of the reason for that, in all fairness).

Thanks. Theoretically I could have two bodies with permanently attached finders, since they’re small (and cheap). Real problem for me is that these camera also don’t have a meter, so the action of metering with my phone, composing on the external finder and focusing on the internal finder and many times the photo is gone.

As an aside: it seems that the shutter on old Leicas gets uncalibrated often. Can you also fix that yourself?

 

[piero2025]

IMHO, based on your requirements, there are only two options:
- Leica M4-P (meterless M6)
- Leica M6 (metered M4-P)

I'm not a fan of any non Leica M-mount option - mainly for long-term reliability, but there are other reasons too I won't get into.

But there is a third option: a freshly CLA'd Leica M5. Use the entire frame for a 28mm lens (although not all M-mount 28mm lenses are usable); it has a meter and you can still get one in good condition for around $1,300 (US).

What if price is not an issue?