zdav
Member
hi,
Which technique do you think I should improve first (besides composition which I'm constantly trying to improve)? I think all 3 of them have much room for improvement but I would like to know which has the biggest impact on the outcome of my images. ( if it helps, my pictures are on http://www.flickr.com/zdav)
1. exposure: I shoot 2 yashica rangefinders. I think the meters on them are not reliable as they contradict each other. I'm thinking of buying a lightmeter and experimenting with different metering techniques. When I use color film or C41 BW film the images seem quite well exposed but these films have more latitude I think.
2. I develop T-max 400 in T-max developer. I don't have a tthermometer. So I kind of mix warm/cold tap water untill feels not to warm, not to cold. How important is the correct temperature when using this combination of film / chemicals.
3. I scan my negatives on an epson v500 with the software that came with the scanner. I haven't invested much time in correcting curves, contrast, etc... All I have done for post processing is changing the exposure in picnick on flickr because this is the part of the process I don't really like.
So, which one will it be? Buy a lightmeter? Buy a thermometer of invest time in the scanning process?
thanks,
Staf
Which technique do you think I should improve first (besides composition which I'm constantly trying to improve)? I think all 3 of them have much room for improvement but I would like to know which has the biggest impact on the outcome of my images. ( if it helps, my pictures are on http://www.flickr.com/zdav)
1. exposure: I shoot 2 yashica rangefinders. I think the meters on them are not reliable as they contradict each other. I'm thinking of buying a lightmeter and experimenting with different metering techniques. When I use color film or C41 BW film the images seem quite well exposed but these films have more latitude I think.
2. I develop T-max 400 in T-max developer. I don't have a tthermometer. So I kind of mix warm/cold tap water untill feels not to warm, not to cold. How important is the correct temperature when using this combination of film / chemicals.
3. I scan my negatives on an epson v500 with the software that came with the scanner. I haven't invested much time in correcting curves, contrast, etc... All I have done for post processing is changing the exposure in picnick on flickr because this is the part of the process I don't really like.
So, which one will it be? Buy a lightmeter? Buy a thermometer of invest time in the scanning process?
thanks,
Staf
Roger Hicks
Veteran
BUY A THERMOMETER. Temperature is VERY important.
Then get your exposure right - buy a meter. Until then, expose generously for best tonality.
Scanning will then get easier.
Cheers,
R.
Then get your exposure right - buy a meter. Until then, expose generously for best tonality.
Scanning will then get easier.
Cheers,
R.
ashrafazlan
Established
Temperature can be whatever that's available to you as long as you adjust the developing time accordingly (although the recommended temps are optimum). What's more important is that you maintain consistency between chemicals. Besides that, your exposure already seems good enough..but a meter would help. After a while though you can just guess on your own..my M6's battery has long died and i've been guessing exposure with good results 
Matus
Well-known
Roger is spot on.
Until you do not get decent negatives out you do not need to worry much about scanning. V500 will be good enough to post your results on the web (once you get there).
good luck!
Until you do not get decent negatives out you do not need to worry much about scanning. V500 will be good enough to post your results on the web (once you get there).
good luck!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Temperature can be whatever that's available to you as long as you adjust the developing time accordingly (although the recommended temps are optimum). What's more important is that you maintain consistency between chemicals. Besides that, your exposure already seems good enough..but a meter would help. After a while though you can just guess on your own..my M6's battery has long died and i've been guessing exposure with good results
If you don't know what the temperature is (NO THERMOMETER), you can't compensate... What do you mean by 'consistency between chemicals'?
Cheers,
R.
naruto
GASitis.. finally cured?
Roger, I think he means don't use developer at 25degC, boiling stop bath, followed by chilled fixer.
*though I don't see anyone in his right mind doing that*
Roger, there is this school of thought that developing at room temperature seems good enough for their negatives. hence the NO THERMOMETER quip. Interestingly, some of the biggest pushers for this method I have seen, are in Singapore, where the water temperature is usually between 27~30degC.
naruto
GASitis.. finally cured?
To the poster: In addition to Roger's advice, get a good/decent meter. An analog meter like the older Sekonics should be good enough. Carry it around everwhere, even if you aren't carrying the camera, and take exposure readings. This will help you do a quick estimate, in situations that need you to act quick. Else, always use a meter.
For development, shoot a few test rolls, and develop until you get it right. Stick to that combination of film and developer. Scanner should be the last of your worries.
PS: that's some nice photos you have on your stream.
For development, shoot a few test rolls, and develop until you get it right. Stick to that combination of film and developer. Scanner should be the last of your worries.
PS: that's some nice photos you have on your stream.
ashrafazlan
Established
Roger, naruto expained it nicely..english isn't my first language so I might've worded it wrong. Water around here (Malaysia) is 30°C so sometimes it's just easier for me to shorten the dev time instead of using a water bath to get it down to 20°C. I've done some testing between the two temps and found the results to be quite similar after some time tweaking, so I just stick to room temperature.
Harry S.
Well-known
Personally, I think until youre quite profficient in understanding exposure and light, a hand-held meter could further complicate things.
For instance, my M6, xpan, Canon DSLR and Seconic incident meter all display different readings in the same light. Sometimes its hard to know who to trust! Say what you want about digital, but its pretty hard to beat the DSLR and its' nice screen and histogram!
Ive found the biggest improvements in my own work in finetuning my developing. I recommend using one type of film and one developer over a few months, experimenting with lighting conditions, ASA speeds and develping times. I started with Tri-X and D76 and found in testing I like it exposed at 250ASA, and have a range of developing times in my notebook for compensating various lighting conditions. A thermometer is cheap and absolutely essential!
Good luck!
Harry
For instance, my M6, xpan, Canon DSLR and Seconic incident meter all display different readings in the same light. Sometimes its hard to know who to trust! Say what you want about digital, but its pretty hard to beat the DSLR and its' nice screen and histogram!
Ive found the biggest improvements in my own work in finetuning my developing. I recommend using one type of film and one developer over a few months, experimenting with lighting conditions, ASA speeds and develping times. I started with Tri-X and D76 and found in testing I like it exposed at 250ASA, and have a range of developing times in my notebook for compensating various lighting conditions. A thermometer is cheap and absolutely essential!
Good luck!
Harry
zdav
Member
Thanks all for the replies and encouragements. I just picked up a thermometer (a digital fever thermometer) during my lunch break
I have a yashica fx3 with ttl meter which I think is quite accurate. I'll try to get a better understanding of exposure using that one. I think I still have a hands-on article somewhere where is explained how you can meter the darkest and brightest area in your shot and then decide how to expose. better do some reading on Roger's site too.
cheers
I have a yashica fx3 with ttl meter which I think is quite accurate. I'll try to get a better understanding of exposure using that one. I think I still have a hands-on article somewhere where is explained how you can meter the darkest and brightest area in your shot and then decide how to expose. better do some reading on Roger's site too.
cheers
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aad
Not so new now.
Just a plug for exposure-it won't be too hard to figure out temperature, but exposure, even with all the leeway it has in most film, really makes a difference.
sjw617
Panoramist
First is get correct exposure. That goes to the other two - "garbage" in , "garbage" out.
Steve
gliderbee
Well-known
Do digital fever thermometer go down to 18° - 20° Celcius ? I don't have a digital fever thermometer, so I really don't know. I guess that if they do, they are either not specifically for measuring fever (no problem with that), or for taking the temperature of alligators ?
Stefan.
?Stefan.
Thanks all for the replies and encouragements. I just picked up a thermometer (a digital fever thermometer) during my lunch break
I have a yashica fx3 with ttl meter which I think is quite accurate. I'll try to get a better understanding of exposure using that one. I think I still have a hands-on article somewhere where is explained how you can meter the darkest and brightest area in your shot and then decide how to expose. better do some reading on Roger's site too.
cheers
zdav
Member
damn gliderbee,
you're absolutely rigth. below 30degrees celcius the thing just says 'L' for low. :bang: Should have thought twice. At least now I'll know when I've got a fever.
I see you live in belgium too. where did you get your thermometer?
regards,
Staf
you're absolutely rigth. below 30degrees celcius the thing just says 'L' for low. :bang: Should have thought twice. At least now I'll know when I've got a fever.
I see you live in belgium too. where did you get your thermometer?
regards,
Staf
ferider
Veteran
Exposure and development go hand in hand. Pick a development recipe, and adjust both together.
A thermometer is a must to be consistent during your experiments. To control temperature, I usually use a big container of water (a gallon or so), and when too warm add ice cubes. Wait until the temperature is right (goes quickly), remove the rest of the ice.
The most important thing for scanning is: keep your negatives clean, learn how to remove dust and leveling in PS or equivalent. That's it.
Roland.
A thermometer is a must to be consistent during your experiments. To control temperature, I usually use a big container of water (a gallon or so), and when too warm add ice cubes. Wait until the temperature is right (goes quickly), remove the rest of the ice.
The most important thing for scanning is: keep your negatives clean, learn how to remove dust and leveling in PS or equivalent. That's it.
Roland.
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venchka
Veteran
All of the above. If you get the first 3 right, the fourth is almost not needed.
Developing without a thermometer is tantamount to photographing without light or film.
Buy a 5 liter bag of Xtol. Dilute it 1:3. Shoot enough film to use up the 5 liters of Xtol. Keep very good records of exposure, time & temperature. Buy a decent hand meter if you don't trust your meters. conversely, if they are consistant, even if wrong, your testing will nail the correct exposure.
After you have exposure & developing perfect, the scanning will be easy. It takes practice, but once you get it right, you will be home free. Adobe Lightroom will do all the processing needed.
Scanning hint: Set the output range to 0 and 256. Most, maybe all, scanning software defaults to something less than 0 & 256. Move the sliders to both ends of the scale. Set the black point and the white point of your negative. Adjust the middle slider (gamma) to taste for each negative. Scan. Done.
ps: All film & developer instructions say to use 68F or 20C. Don't get up tight about that temperature. Get a good temp. conversion chart (there is a GREAT one at the Ilford web site) and adjust time to your ambient room temperature. Your negatives will love it. If it wren't for the Ilford chart, I couldn't develop film 8 months out of the year here in Houston, Texas.
pps: Thin negatives (thinner than you would use in an enlarger) scan beautifully.
Developing without a thermometer is tantamount to photographing without light or film.
Buy a 5 liter bag of Xtol. Dilute it 1:3. Shoot enough film to use up the 5 liters of Xtol. Keep very good records of exposure, time & temperature. Buy a decent hand meter if you don't trust your meters. conversely, if they are consistant, even if wrong, your testing will nail the correct exposure.
After you have exposure & developing perfect, the scanning will be easy. It takes practice, but once you get it right, you will be home free. Adobe Lightroom will do all the processing needed.
Scanning hint: Set the output range to 0 and 256. Most, maybe all, scanning software defaults to something less than 0 & 256. Move the sliders to both ends of the scale. Set the black point and the white point of your negative. Adjust the middle slider (gamma) to taste for each negative. Scan. Done.
ps: All film & developer instructions say to use 68F or 20C. Don't get up tight about that temperature. Get a good temp. conversion chart (there is a GREAT one at the Ilford web site) and adjust time to your ambient room temperature. Your negatives will love it. If it wren't for the Ilford chart, I couldn't develop film 8 months out of the year here in Houston, Texas.
pps: Thin negatives (thinner than you would use in an enlarger) scan beautifully.
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venchka
Veteran
and one more thing.............
Calibrate your monitor with the appropriate hardware and software or give up digital conversion of film.
Calibrate your monitor with the appropriate hardware and software or give up digital conversion of film.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
You can use the Sunny 16 method of setting exposure, and you can use a a Diaphine-type developer (panthermic?) for which temperature isn't critical, and you'll do just fine for a lot of situations. But to get consistent results, you need to control variables. If you have controls on the front end, then the tasks on the back end of your work flow will be a lot easier. If you want to make scanning easier/more productive, then you'll need to consistently deliver good/proper negatives to the scanner.
If you want to continue using Tmax developer (or any other developer, really), then you need a thermometer. I have never been able to reliably adjust solution temperature by feel. I've gotten close with water, but I'm not sure I want to try to guess the temperature of a developer and fixer.
You can guess at exposure and rely on the wider latitude of film to bail you out when you are wrong, but a meter takes the guess work out of the equation and comes in handy for those odd lighting situations (There are a lot more than you think). I think every photographer needs a decent light meter. Good luck!/
venchka
Veteran
Don't get wonky about stop, fixer & washer temps. + or - a few degrees won't hurt anything.
Here's how I do it:
Fill a sink with bottles of fixer and wash water and then fill the sink with water. Use hot water or ice to get the temp. of all of these liquids to about the temp. of your developer or room temperature if that is the same as the devloper. I usually fill the bottles and sink and let them sit for an hour or more. When all the liquid is the same temperature, I start developing. The stop, fixer, wash water and distilled water for Photo-Flo will hold their temperature long enough to finish the process.
Tmax 400 is probably the all around best B&W film made for scanning. Xtol 1:3 will make Tmax 400 look FABULOUS! I don't scan very much C-41 film. It's a pain compared to B&W.
Here's how I do it:
Fill a sink with bottles of fixer and wash water and then fill the sink with water. Use hot water or ice to get the temp. of all of these liquids to about the temp. of your developer or room temperature if that is the same as the devloper. I usually fill the bottles and sink and let them sit for an hour or more. When all the liquid is the same temperature, I start developing. The stop, fixer, wash water and distilled water for Photo-Flo will hold their temperature long enough to finish the process.
Tmax 400 is probably the all around best B&W film made for scanning. Xtol 1:3 will make Tmax 400 look FABULOUS! I don't scan very much C-41 film. It's a pain compared to B&W.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Personally I'd back XP2 Super.
Absolutely true about stop/fix/wash but with dev +/- 'a few degrees' will make a BIG difference to contrast at a given developing time. You can dig yourself out with hard/soft paper in a real darkroom, or with PP in scanning, but it's a better idea to have consistently developed negs to begin with.
Cheers,
R.