marcr1230
Well-known
I'm now in the market for a "tough" camera.
I just spent some time in the American southwest ( I'll let you know in a couple days how film does in 115F/47C heat )
I was carrying my Leica MP and 35mm Biogon, and the Fuji X100, generally using one or the other for extended stretches.
as I've posted before - there is a big difference between family vacation shooting and no compromise "art" shooting. nobody wants to wait for perfect light , inspiration or background when you travel with family.
As a side note - I stopped by the Fatali Gallery http://fatali.com/ in Springdale, Utah outside of Zion NP. He prints film of Cibachrome, and since Ciba is no longer made, he must have either hoarded materials or has a lot of finished stock.
I also made a stop at the Bill Chapman's home and gallery outside of Bryce Canyon - here's some of his work http://photo.net/photos/chapmanwr
both guys , IMHO, use vey saturated colors and nice evening/morning light.
I spoke to Chapman's wife and she said some images can require an investment of days camping, waiting for the right conditions - I assume there are many times when the effort is to no avail.
A third guy in the area who I met last year - is in Kanab , Utah. He is Terry Alderman he doesn't have much of a web site - he's kind of a curmudgeony LF film guy. fun to talk to, leads photo trips and has nice work himself. He owns a camera shop in Kanab, with a substantial Leica business - and this town is as close to the middle of nowhere as most people will ever get.
anyway , back to my rant.
After carrying my cameras in The Zion Narrows (a 5 hour hike in a shallow river), I got tired of taking out my cameras from the pack and from ziplock bags to take every picture. This was just a precaution , many people carried big DSLRs around their necks and just took the small risk of a mis-step and dunking, however slight.
But, being as gear is much easier to acquire than talent. I think it would be nice to have a "tough" digital. Especially since the next outing is in a few weeks and involves beach and sand and surf. My current top choices are the Olympus TG-2 or the Nikon AW-110. The Oly has a more solid build, the lens is 2.0 at wide. the AW-110 has wifi for remote control and to transfer photos off camera and to phone/computer. Both have GPS. I'm leaning toward the Oly as I have some familiarity with the model (daughter has 4 yr old Oly tough camera).
complaints - why not an 8 MP camera for better ISO performance, with a no compromise lens (Oly has some softness at full aperture further away from center) and I want Wifi. Nikon has slightly better resolution/sharpness but anecdotally not as robust a body for underwater. Oly has some noise in the background while using video according to some reviews. Oly has tiny controls, hard to find with gloves or under water...
I also looked at Canon D20 and Panasonic FT5
I'm leaning towards the TG-2, Olympus, why did you make it black or red
how about silver ? black in 115 degrees is going to heat up a lot.
sorry for the digressions and short rant - thoughts anyone ?
I just spent some time in the American southwest ( I'll let you know in a couple days how film does in 115F/47C heat )
I was carrying my Leica MP and 35mm Biogon, and the Fuji X100, generally using one or the other for extended stretches.
as I've posted before - there is a big difference between family vacation shooting and no compromise "art" shooting. nobody wants to wait for perfect light , inspiration or background when you travel with family.
As a side note - I stopped by the Fatali Gallery http://fatali.com/ in Springdale, Utah outside of Zion NP. He prints film of Cibachrome, and since Ciba is no longer made, he must have either hoarded materials or has a lot of finished stock.
I also made a stop at the Bill Chapman's home and gallery outside of Bryce Canyon - here's some of his work http://photo.net/photos/chapmanwr
both guys , IMHO, use vey saturated colors and nice evening/morning light.
I spoke to Chapman's wife and she said some images can require an investment of days camping, waiting for the right conditions - I assume there are many times when the effort is to no avail.
A third guy in the area who I met last year - is in Kanab , Utah. He is Terry Alderman he doesn't have much of a web site - he's kind of a curmudgeony LF film guy. fun to talk to, leads photo trips and has nice work himself. He owns a camera shop in Kanab, with a substantial Leica business - and this town is as close to the middle of nowhere as most people will ever get.
anyway , back to my rant.
After carrying my cameras in The Zion Narrows (a 5 hour hike in a shallow river), I got tired of taking out my cameras from the pack and from ziplock bags to take every picture. This was just a precaution , many people carried big DSLRs around their necks and just took the small risk of a mis-step and dunking, however slight.
But, being as gear is much easier to acquire than talent. I think it would be nice to have a "tough" digital. Especially since the next outing is in a few weeks and involves beach and sand and surf. My current top choices are the Olympus TG-2 or the Nikon AW-110. The Oly has a more solid build, the lens is 2.0 at wide. the AW-110 has wifi for remote control and to transfer photos off camera and to phone/computer. Both have GPS. I'm leaning toward the Oly as I have some familiarity with the model (daughter has 4 yr old Oly tough camera).
complaints - why not an 8 MP camera for better ISO performance, with a no compromise lens (Oly has some softness at full aperture further away from center) and I want Wifi. Nikon has slightly better resolution/sharpness but anecdotally not as robust a body for underwater. Oly has some noise in the background while using video according to some reviews. Oly has tiny controls, hard to find with gloves or under water...
I also looked at Canon D20 and Panasonic FT5
I'm leaning towards the TG-2, Olympus, why did you make it black or red
how about silver ? black in 115 degrees is going to heat up a lot.
sorry for the digressions and short rant - thoughts anyone ?
willie_901
Veteran
I was at Zion NP and Bryce last week!
I am not much of a landscape photographer though. I left my Fuji X100 and XP1 at home and just used my iPhone 5. I was not interested in lugging even the relatively small Fuiji X gear around. I needed to save every sq. inch of space for water. I never drank so much water in my life and still felt thirsty.
As you know, the southern Utah canyons and Parks are spectacular and beautiful. I saw some of Fatali's work in the large motel lobby where we stayed.
I am not much of a landscape photographer though. I left my Fuji X100 and XP1 at home and just used my iPhone 5. I was not interested in lugging even the relatively small Fuiji X gear around. I needed to save every sq. inch of space for water. I never drank so much water in my life and still felt thirsty.
As you know, the southern Utah canyons and Parks are spectacular and beautiful. I saw some of Fatali's work in the large motel lobby where we stayed.
taskoni
Well-known
Sorry, I don't get it. I would use my camera in any place, anytime. I would never buy different cameras to shoot them in desert, rain, hurricanes or in the mountains for example. My cameras are just a tools to make pictures with. No matter how tough the environment might be I will be carrying one in my hand and another around my neck as I usually do. Otherwise why buy them?
Regards,
Boris
P.S.
Why should you compromise? - you already have by buying that Fuji
:angel:
Regards,
Boris
P.S.
Why should you compromise? - you already have by buying that Fuji
:angel:
marcr1230
Well-known
@taskoni - humor aside, there are situations where you don't want to destroy your gear, I'm not a professional and don't make money off it so a dunking is costly.
These are also special purpose to some extent - you can't swim or dive with the X100 or MP. but with the TG-2 you can (not the same as a DSLR in a housing w/flash of course)
I have many different size screw drivers and types of wrenches in the tool box, some jobs need different tools.
These are also special purpose to some extent - you can't swim or dive with the X100 or MP. but with the TG-2 you can (not the same as a DSLR in a housing w/flash of course)
I have many different size screw drivers and types of wrenches in the tool box, some jobs need different tools.
marcr1230
Well-known
@willie - no kidding on the heat and water, We carried 2 x 1 liter nalgenes per person and could have used a third , also useful is the camelback bladder which fits in the knapsack brain - although we were better hydrated than most everyone else we saw.
which reminds me of another issues - with all the water in the knapsack, I was scared that a bottle would leak and damage the cameras - nalgenes are great and fit in outside pockets, never had an issue.
also - next time I need to bring a small tripod for the blurred/moving water shots especially
which reminds me of another issues - with all the water in the knapsack, I was scared that a bottle would leak and damage the cameras - nalgenes are great and fit in outside pockets, never had an issue.
also - next time I need to bring a small tripod for the blurred/moving water shots especially
Kwesi
Well-known
You dont have to compromise.
The smart money is on insuring your current gear. much cheaper than buying any of the other cameras you are considering. and you get much better image quality with your existing cameras.
The smart money is on insuring your current gear. much cheaper than buying any of the other cameras you are considering. and you get much better image quality with your existing cameras.
Kwesi
Well-known
my bad. i assumed the primary purpose of your trip was photography.
if not then by all means grab a tough camera and have fun!
if not then by all means grab a tough camera and have fun!
SausalitoDog
Well-known
Yeah, I think you just have to take the gear you feel will serve you best photographically and hope for the best. If the pix aren't that important, then maybe you should just take the trip and enjoy yourself with out photos? Maybe you cover your bet by taking half as much gear?
I know the dilemna but sometimes the risk of a gear issue is worth it and sometimes not. I would say better to leave the gear home than to "compromise." Though if you look in the gallery here, there are some really fine images taken with less than top of line cameras.
I know the dilemna but sometimes the risk of a gear issue is worth it and sometimes not. I would say better to leave the gear home than to "compromise." Though if you look in the gallery here, there are some really fine images taken with less than top of line cameras.
mugent
Well-known
Pentax do some fine looking tough compacts, some of their DSLRs are sealed too.
When hanging around the beach or other camera hostile places, it nice to have waterproof cameras, it would be good if they all were, but nothing is perfect.
When hanging around the beach or other camera hostile places, it nice to have waterproof cameras, it would be good if they all were, but nothing is perfect.
marcr1230
Well-known
@SausalitoDog - the compromise I meant was referring to why can't I have the best of world's tough camera, not a tough camera that outperforms a DSLR. Why does one toughie have the sturdiest body and another has best high ISO performance.
regarding taking the photo equipment that will serve you best, I define this case as a snapshot situation 95% of the time, because the family trip won't work if I fall back all the time to get the best scenic or art shot.
regarding taking the photo equipment that will serve you best, I define this case as a snapshot situation 95% of the time, because the family trip won't work if I fall back all the time to get the best scenic or art shot.
Frontman
Well-known
Konica used to make a series of heavy-duty cameras for construction workers to record the progress of their work. These cameras were designed to be used by non-photographers, and were made to be sturdy and foolproof.
The Konica worksite cameras are dust and shock proof, as well as being reasonably water resistant. A number of models were made with either 35mm or 28mm lenses. A zoom version was also produced. These cameras use the same AF system as the Konica Hexar, which is fast and precise. They feature a built in flash which can be disabled quickly if necessary.
The best of the bunch was called the Wide 28, this model had the best lens, being an 8 element type with a maximum aperture of f/3.5.
I am also hesitant to bring an expensive camera to the beach, desert, or other places which are dustybor sandy. Often a Nikon F of some type is adequate, but these old Konicas are simply the best for such situations.
The Konica worksite cameras were ot exported from Japan, but they can be found on eBay nowadays.
The Konica worksite cameras are dust and shock proof, as well as being reasonably water resistant. A number of models were made with either 35mm or 28mm lenses. A zoom version was also produced. These cameras use the same AF system as the Konica Hexar, which is fast and precise. They feature a built in flash which can be disabled quickly if necessary.
The best of the bunch was called the Wide 28, this model had the best lens, being an 8 element type with a maximum aperture of f/3.5.
I am also hesitant to bring an expensive camera to the beach, desert, or other places which are dustybor sandy. Often a Nikon F of some type is adequate, but these old Konicas are simply the best for such situations.
The Konica worksite cameras were ot exported from Japan, but they can be found on eBay nowadays.
giellaleafapmu
Well-known
For what I see tough cameras are really tough compact cameras with compact cameras (the old compact cameras, not the new Fuji, Ricoh, Sony) image quality. If you have to use a camera in harsh environment I'd go with with a professional DSLR body a la D3 or D4...if you have the money and the strenght to curry it around. I have seem them abused in multiple way and they seem to come always out alive like heros of action movies. If you really need to bring a camera underwater then I think the only way to go is a camera case but that's really for diving or for extreme use and they arew not cheap indeed. If you shot film of course there is the old and cheapish Nikonos but be careful to which lenses are designed for underwater usage and which are good outside the water.
GLF
GLF
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
IMHO, you don't have to compromise; there are several durable and dependable 35mm options to choose from that will give you excellent image quality when making landscape images in off the beaten track.
If you want a durable, dependable camera for outdoor use that is not vulnerable to water, the Nikonos V with the 35mm f/2.5 lens is about as good a choice as you will find.
I picked up a near mint Nikonos V with the above mentioned lens recently for $200. I wanted an all weather camera that I could shoot with in a torrential downpour or when canoeing; the Nikonos V is a camera that scuba divers use, as it is waterproof to 50 meters under water. The 35mm f/2.5 is usable on dry land or underwater and is a great lens in terms of image quality.
Beyond that, the Leica M3, M4 and M4-P bodies are very durable and dependable - although not waterproof like the Nikonos V. Regarding heat, the service department at Leica NJ informed me that the M cameras and lenses can be used in temperatures up to +140 degrees Fahrenheit without suffering heat damage. You will have to go to Death Valley or a similar environment to exceed that temperature range. If you are a Nikon F system user, the FM2 and FM2n bodies are tough and reliable.
Hope this helps...
If you want a durable, dependable camera for outdoor use that is not vulnerable to water, the Nikonos V with the 35mm f/2.5 lens is about as good a choice as you will find.
I picked up a near mint Nikonos V with the above mentioned lens recently for $200. I wanted an all weather camera that I could shoot with in a torrential downpour or when canoeing; the Nikonos V is a camera that scuba divers use, as it is waterproof to 50 meters under water. The 35mm f/2.5 is usable on dry land or underwater and is a great lens in terms of image quality.
Beyond that, the Leica M3, M4 and M4-P bodies are very durable and dependable - although not waterproof like the Nikonos V. Regarding heat, the service department at Leica NJ informed me that the M cameras and lenses can be used in temperatures up to +140 degrees Fahrenheit without suffering heat damage. You will have to go to Death Valley or a similar environment to exceed that temperature range. If you are a Nikon F system user, the FM2 and FM2n bodies are tough and reliable.
Hope this helps...
Pioneer
Veteran
Two tough cameras come to mind almost immediately. The first is my Pentax K5. When equipped with the weather-proof 18-55 it is about as immune as it gets. Likewise, I have never had any problems with my Canon EOS 1Ds Mk II with an L lens attached like the 17-40L.
If you are interested in working with 35mm then the Pentax LX is one tough hombre, as is the Canon EOS 1V. Both of these cameras are also sealed from dust and rain/moisture.
If you are interested in working with 35mm then the Pentax LX is one tough hombre, as is the Canon EOS 1V. Both of these cameras are also sealed from dust and rain/moisture.
clayne
shoot film or die
You wonder why some of those guys are trekking around, hauling a folded up 8x10 and a backpack of film holders with them, camping until just the right light or setup is found? Because that's what it takes! Nobody else (aside from a small set of people) is hauling out large format cameras and shooting with this sense of purpose out there other than the people who really want it. You're basically saying "why do I have to do so much work to get quality output?" Do you really need an answer on that one?
marcr1230
Well-known
@clayne - I thought I was pretty clear that I was not trying to produce fine art with the best photographic quality. I get it that dedicated artists with vision, time, knowledge and LF equipment are going to produce some amazingly beautiful results.
My goal was to get family pictures without worrying about destroying expensive equipment in a watery environment. The issue of compromise was within the genre of waterproof/tough cameras, The Pentax K-5 or Nikonos V are good suggestions. 8x10 view camera is great - but it's not practical for this situation
My goal was to get family pictures without worrying about destroying expensive equipment in a watery environment. The issue of compromise was within the genre of waterproof/tough cameras, The Pentax K-5 or Nikonos V are good suggestions. 8x10 view camera is great - but it's not practical for this situation
thirtyfivefifty
Noctilust survivor
I would go for those waterproof/shockproof cameras or whatever.
If those aren't good enough, pick a camera and purchase those waterproof housing/bags designed for it.
If those aren't good enough, pick a camera and purchase those waterproof housing/bags designed for it.
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
This sounds like the kind of situation that photojournalists find themselves in all the time, having the need for high image quality with ruggedness. Which might point the way toward some Canikon DSLR solution. Which is probably not what you wanted to hear.
It's a shame Leica doesn't see the need to supply a ruggedized camera and lens for the professional market, especially given their legacy in 20th century photojournalism.
~Joe
It's a shame Leica doesn't see the need to supply a ruggedized camera and lens for the professional market, especially given their legacy in 20th century photojournalism.
~Joe
giellaleafapmu
Well-known
Housing are incredibly expensive, just to give you the scale the Ikelite housing for the D700 costs 1,600US$, and then there are the domes... Unless you really have to go underwater this is not a way to save money. If really the point is to take good enough pictures without risking thousands of dollars then my best bet would rather be using an old camera. You can buy a Nikon D200 for a bit more than 200 US$ and you can put a very good prime lens on it for about the same price or even less. That's very rugged set which takes very good pictures way out of what any rugged camera can do and you are not risking too much money. If you are using the camera under heavy rain just cover it with plastic bags.
GLF