wotalegend
Well-known
Princelle (the definitive guide to FSU cameras) uses only one "i" in Zorki throughout. In fact on the camera itself it has only one "i". So why do people here, and other forums, type "Zorkii"?
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
probably because of the original cyrillic lettering, no? =)
btgc
Veteran
It would be possible to write "Zorkij" to preserve original spelling. I know, in English "j" reads as [dzhei], though in other languages Latvian including it reads same as Russian "й".
Probably those writing "Zorkii" want to emphasize final letter, but do not see appropriate means.
Personally I'm not aware of trend of writing "Zorkii" but then I'm more interested in linguistic issue than Zorkij itself
Probably those writing "Zorkii" want to emphasize final letter, but do not see appropriate means.
Personally I'm not aware of trend of writing "Zorkii" but then I'm more interested in linguistic issue than Zorkij itself
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
Pfreddee
Well-known
Ignorance, sir, sheer ignorance!
With best regards.
Pfreddee(Stephen)
With best regards.
Pfreddee(Stephen)
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
So what is the correct pronunciation in Russian?
I would've thought it would be something like "Zor-ki-ye", hence my use of the double 'i' at the end.
But I'll correct it if needs be.
I would've thought it would be something like "Zor-ki-ye", hence my use of the double 'i' at the end.
But I'll correct it if needs be.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
That's why I do it. The Cyrillic looks a bit like Zopkui (only a bit like it, but I can't do Cyrillic on this keyboard). I suspect that Zorki (single i) was adopted for use on the camera because Zorkii looks odd in English, or indeed French. So for that matter does Zorkyi.
I don't think M. Princelle himself would claim to be the ultimate authority on Russian orthography (we've met, though it was a good few years ago): he is a modest man, though extremely knowlegeable. It's largely a matter of taste which spelling you use. A bit of an affectation, perhaps, to use the double-i spelling, but hey, we all have our affectations.
By the same token, the spelling 'Lyubitel' better reflects the spelling (and pronunciation) of the well known TLR.
Cheers,
R.
Veloman
Recently infected w. RF
No IPA symbols, grr...
No IPA symbols, grr...
I guess Princelle used Zorki because KMZ itself used it on the double-named (Cyrillic/Latin) Зоркий/Zorki export models of Zorki 1 (type B, C) and 4, 6.
Without IPA symbols (not supported by the most browsers/homepages):
Зоркий could be pronounced like z + o from boy + r from trim + k + i from ship + y from boy
My 2 cents!
No IPA symbols, grr...
I guess Princelle used Zorki because KMZ itself used it on the double-named (Cyrillic/Latin) Зоркий/Zorki export models of Zorki 1 (type B, C) and 4, 6.
Without IPA symbols (not supported by the most browsers/homepages):
Зоркий could be pronounced like z + o from boy + r from trim + k + i from ship + y from boy
My 2 cents!
Last edited:
biomed
Veteran
That is pretty much the correct pronunciation with the й having a very subtle "y as in yoga sound". The y sound is often missed when hearing words such as Зоркий or Руский. This all from distant memories of Russian language classes in secondary school many, many years ago.
Mike
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Two syllables, stress on the first: ZOR-kiy.
The Z is a voiced S-sound, just as it would be in English or Dutch, but unlike in German (where it's a "ts"-style affricate).
The O is pretty strongly rounded (because its syllable has the stress), much more so than in "boy" (well depending on where your English is from, of course). But a long Dutch o (as in "groot") will do the job.
The R is the tip-of-the-tongue variant.
The I is the one from "feed", only shorter.
The Y is quite weak because it's in the end, in fact the "-kiy" almost rhymes with English "bee".
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Uhm....
One Zorki, Two Zorkii?
And, possibly, Three Zorkiii
One Zorki, Two Zorkii?
And, possibly, Three Zorkiii
filmfan
Well-known
Who cares?
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Thanks Mike & rxmd, my brush with attempting to learn Russian was very short lived.
Armoured
Well-known
"Standard" English transliteration (I think there is a Library of Congress system that's sort of the standard) would be "Zorkiy," note the Й (so-called 'ee-kratky' or short i) becomes Y.
But it doesn't really matter as close enough - and as with names, the preference for brands is usually to pick something familiar-looking that sounds alike - and once a convention is picked, to stick with it. Hence it's a bit pedantic to write "Aleksandr" instead of Alexander (Pushkin), even if more accurate. (The standard transliteration system also specifies use of ' for the unpronounced soft sign, which many leave out - hence not Yel'tsin but Yeltsin.)
And of course, for export, the Soviets changed Zhiguli (Жигули) to Lada because it just plain looked weird in other languages. (Supposedly also too close to Gigolo in pronunciation but that's probably just an urban myth).
So Zorki just looked less weird and they were trying to export for money.
rxmd has the pronunciation right (IMHO).
But it doesn't really matter as close enough - and as with names, the preference for brands is usually to pick something familiar-looking that sounds alike - and once a convention is picked, to stick with it. Hence it's a bit pedantic to write "Aleksandr" instead of Alexander (Pushkin), even if more accurate. (The standard transliteration system also specifies use of ' for the unpronounced soft sign, which many leave out - hence not Yel'tsin but Yeltsin.)
And of course, for export, the Soviets changed Zhiguli (Жигули) to Lada because it just plain looked weird in other languages. (Supposedly also too close to Gigolo in pronunciation but that's probably just an urban myth).
So Zorki just looked less weird and they were trying to export for money.
rxmd has the pronunciation right (IMHO).