Widest Sonnar there has been?

D

drjoke

Well-known
Local time
1:33 AM
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
217
Would that be 40MM? I am waiting for my Jupter 9, which would be the 85MM for me. I already have Rollei 40MM Sonnar. Now if I want something wider, could I still get something in Sonnar?
 
Look up the Contax T3.

Better yet, get the T ix in both finishes which no self-respecting Sonnar-collector can do without.

k1352642887.jpg
 
Last edited:
rxmd said:
Is that Sonnar as in the lens formula or Sonnar as in the brand name?
Click to expand...

Both! Sonnar is a succesor to the early Ernostar design of the 1920th which was improved by Zeiss. Its a triplet variant with at least one cemented group of three lenses. But today not every Sonnar named Sonnar is really one!
 
Bavaricus said:
Both! Sonnar is a succesor to the early Ernostar design of the 1920th which was improved by Zeiss. Its a triplet variant with at least one cemented group of three lenses. But today not every Sonnar named Sonnar is really one!
Click to expand...
That's exactly why I was asking what the OP meant. I'm not sure whether the Contax T's Sonnar technically a Sonnar-type lens, for example. If it's just about the name, another candidate is probably the Vario-Sonnar 16-80/3.5-4.5 at the short end, but I am not sure whether this is what he really interested in.

I am not sure if there are any Sonnar-type lenses wider than 50 (maybe the Rollei Sonnar 40/2.8 in LTM, I don't know)

Philipp
 
rxmd said:
That's exactly why I was asking what the OP meant. I'm not sure whether the Contax T's Sonnar technically a Sonnar-type lens, for example. If it's just about the name, another candidate is probably the Vario-Sonnar 16-80/3.5-4.5 at the short end, but I am not sure whether this is what he really interested in.

I am not sure if there are any Sonnar-type lenses wider than 50 (maybe the Rollei Sonnar 40/2.8 in LTM, I don't know)

Philipp
Click to expand...

Hello Philipp,

the Vario-Sonnar ist the name for almost all sophisticated zoom lenses by zeiss. Simpler designs are named Vario-Tessar, e.g. in Yashica P&S or in even in Contax T VSII. AFAIK the Sonnar 35/38 or 40 in the Contax T-T3 are real Sonnar type lenses - but the formula 6 lenses in 4 groups doesn't sound very sonnar like, more planar (gauss-type). The picture above shows the T ix, a APS P&S. Maybe it was possible to design a short Sonnar for APS. I wasn't able to get anny lens diagramms for the Contax T-Series .

The Rollei 2.8/40 in LTM is a real Sonnar :)
 
IIRC the distance between film plane and the rear element in Sonnar design is a bit over 1/2 of the focal length. So the focal length can't be very short.
 
What are other lens designs with some pronounced and recognizable signatures like the Sonnars?

I am especially interested in wider than 35mm. Is there anything spectacular in terms of signatures for the wider lenses?
 
Not really. The only thing that stands out is probably fully-symmetric designs like the Topogon, which are slow and show noticeable vignetting, but largely distortion-free. The cheapest lens of this type is the Russian 28/f6 Orion-15.

The Sonnar "look" is mainly a function of its bokeh, and in wideangles you don't have much of that anyway.
 
Bavaricus said:
Maybe it was possible to design a short Sonnar for APS. I wasn't able to get anny lens diagramms for the Contax T-Series .
Click to expand...

Here is some info in 'Zeiss Camera Lens News' about making Sonnar lens for Contax Tix APS p&s camera https://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN03e/$File/CLN3.pdf

This text is from pdf-file:
---
"Special efforts were made by Carl Zeiss to achieve excellent correction of distortion and image flatness over a wide field, eventually modifying the 5-element Sonnar basic design, chosen for its compactness, into a 6-element/4-group configuration very similar to the classic Planar design."
---

So, It seems that Contax Tix Sonnar 28mm/2.8 is actually Planar-type lens... I have Tix manual + brochure (and camera!) at home. I'll try to check, if there is a lens diagram and MTF-chart in one of their publication.
 
Last edited:
jsuominen said:
I have Tix manual + brochure (and camera!) at home. I'll try to check, if there is a lens diagram and MTF-chart in one of their publication.
Click to expand...

Diagram found from Tix brochure, I hope Zeiss/Kyocera doesn't mind, when I show them here.
 

Attachments

  • Tix_Sonnar_28.jpg
    Tix_Sonnar_28.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 0
  • Tix_Sonnar_28_b.jpg
    Tix_Sonnar_28_b.jpg
    50 KB · Views: 0
Doesn't look quite like a classic Sonnar. If anything, it is closer to original 35mm Biogon diagram (which was likely inspired by Sonnar design).
 
varjag said:
Doesn't look quite like a classic Sonnar.
Click to expand...

Except the 1950s Japanese clones and the Jupiters, nothing looks like classic Sonnars.

For more than 40 years, Zeiss Sonnars do not have cemented triplets -- hallmark of the "classic Sonnar". Advances in glass types and coatings have made such triplets unnecessary. The ZM C-Sonnar is made solely for nostagic reasons.

The vast majority of modern Sonnars have Ernostar designs, such as those found in Rollei 35S/SE, the Contax T, G and SLR series. There are also double-Gauss derivitives (e.g. ZM 85mm)
 
Last edited:
Mazurka said:
Except the 1950s Japanese clones and the Jupiters, nothing looks like classic Sonnars.

For more than 40 years, Zeiss Sonnars do not have cemented triplets -- hallmark of the "classic Sonnar". Advances in glass types and coatings have made such triplets unnecessary. The ZM C-Sonnar is made solely for nostagic reasons.

The vast majority of modern Sonnars have Ernostar designs, such as those found in Rollei 35S/SE, the Contax T, G and SLR series. There are also double-Gauss derivitives (e.g. ZM 85mm)
Click to expand...
Well, ZM C-Sonnar looks like classic Sonnar enough to me. I am aware about the air element, but it still maintains configuration of generalized triplet. The 28mm Sonnar above looks much closer to double Gauss.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom