Will there be a DP4?

tsiklonaut

tsiklonaut

Well-known
Local time
9:43 AM
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
1,089
Funny, since they've added DP3 recently then maybe a DP4 would be nice final addition - a fisheye version of Sigma DP! :eek: :D

With examples from LOMO fisheye and GoPro cameras very successful "culture", such DP4 should be successful as well in sales when marketed rightly. Or what do you reckon?

Personally I'd love to have a fisheye DP, I'd deffo take it over DP1 that's maybe a little too much of "not a meat nor a fish" type of camera (not wide enough for modern standards nor tight enough for portraits). DP2 is much more functional in those terms yet the DP series misses that "ultrawide" punchy camera, i.e. taking a comparison from the film-world maybe a digital version of something between Mamya 7 with 43mm or Hasselblad SWC style?

Would be nice to have a Foveon sensor behind such close-to-extreme-wide focal lenght IMO.
 
A super wide would be nice, but a fisheye might not appeal to those who like this series of cameras. Fisheyes are seen as gimicky generally.
 
I would like to c a new dp series camera as well. A fish eye is such a rare use lens, I don't think so...

On the other hand, where I think sigma could do well IMHO is a multi-prong attack
- like the Ricoh gr, come out w/ high quality lens adapter for 21fov or even that fish eye.
--- Add fw support like Ricoh to account fr the adapter.
--- in fact I have used the 21 ricoh adapter on the dp1m and when I compare it to the same image on the gr, while it may have lost some detail, it is still slightly better then the one from the gr.
- push out a csc body
--- I don't care what sensor size
--- the rumor of m43 sensor while it may not appeal to all, is actually fine w/ me since I still shoot m43.
--- the fish eye u want could come from many a different source

For me, I would rather they work on a next gen product w/
- better high iso
- faster digital path
- faster sd write
- a dp w/ good evf either built in or external
- put a cable release on the dp series

Gary
 
GaryLH said:
I would like to c a new dp series camera as well. A fish eye is such a rare use lens, I don't think so...

On the other hand, where I think sigma could do well IMHO is a multi-prong attack
- like the Ricoh gr, come out w/ high quality lens adapter for 21fov or even that fish eye.
--- Add fw support like Ricoh to account fr the adapter.
--- in fact I have used the 21 ricoh adapter on the dp1m and when I compare it to the same image on the gr, while it may have lost some detail, it is still slightly better then the one from the gr.
- push out a csc body
--- I don't care what sensor size
--- the rumor of m43 sensor while it may not appeal to all, is actually fine w/ me since I still shoot m43.
--- the fish eye u want could come from many a different source

For me, I would rather they work on a next gen product w/
- better high iso
- faster digital path
- faster sd write
- a dp w/ good evf either built in or external
- put a cable release on the dp series

Gary
Click to expand...

gary, your post reminds me that i emailed with richard franiec and he said that he doesn't think he'll be making a cable release adapter for the merrills. :( i like the look of the ones he made for other cameras.

as for a dp4m fisheye, i imagine there wouldn't be enough popularity for one since fisheye lenses in general seem to be lower use lenses, but what do i know, lol. but i'd be up for an adapter for the dp1m if that's possible.
 
I'd disagree the fisheye not being a good choice or "gimicky". It must be well designed fisheye lens, very few manufacturers do excellent fisheye lenses and Sigma seems to be the one who can do it.

Okay-okay, this is from Pentax 67 film-camera, but it'll give you idea how createvy a fisheye can be used and most importantly my point is that NO OTHER "regular" lens can be used to mimick such creativity since no other lens has this feature optically IMHO:




The Ride by tsiklonaut, on Flickr













Angolan fisherman by tsiklonaut, on Flickr











Christo Rei, Angola by tsiklonaut, on Flickr











Kelimutu crater by tsiklonaut, on Flickr











Tropic Float by tsiklonaut, on Flickr​



Now imagine to have all this "angle power" in a small compact p&s camera with massive resolution as the Merrill Foveon. Can a top-noch fisheye be really such a bad thing as many people think it is?
 
My intuition is that a DP4 won't go wider than the current DP1M, unless it is part of a zoom. I think they will leave that segment for their DSLR, or perhaps a new CSC if that is really what is coming. However, I'd really really love to see a DP*M in anything from 18 to 24 efov fixed lens. Don't care for zoom.

These cameras need a better live viewing option in bright sunshine, and better battery life.
 
tsiklonaut said:
I'd disagree the fisheye not being a good choice or "gimicky". It must be well designed fisheye lens, very few manufacturers do excellent fisheye lenses and Sigma seems to be the one who can do it.
Click to expand...

I'm saying the curved distortion is gimmicky not the FOV in general. Of course it can be used tastefully at times, but I think a superwide lens without the curved distortion is probably more useful to Sigma's typical DP user. Just an opinion based on not much besides bias towards fisheyes.
 
I'd like to see a DPx with 24mm focal length.
Or 135mm.

Or better yet, a 24-135mm fixed-lens, compact zoom.
Think about it as a mini-digital version of Fuji GA645zi.
 
shadowfox said:
Show us some of your shots on the DP3.
The examples I found on flickr are ... less than inspiring.
Click to expand...

Sorry, don't have a DP3 although I've been tempted. I'd buy it if I had a lot of spare money but a DP2 Merill already would be a more versatile upgrade for me to have, although I do love certain noise and large-pixel-pitch detail texture of the old 14MP Foveon sensor (DP2s) that the tiny-pixeled Merrills can't mimick. So even if I buy some Merill in the future I'll deffo have to keep my old trusty DP2s as well.
 
in this (http://www.impressjapan.jp/pdf/271401/1113110212free.pdf) interview with Yamamoto Kazuhito, head communications officer for Sigma Japan, it is said that Sigma is planning additions to its existing line. The one thing that Sigma does not want to do is to offer cameras that are the same as those already offered by other companies. No plans for a full frame sensor (which could require enormous computing power needs). Lens size is also an important factor for Sigma as it looks to create products with balance. So APS-C is favored for the moment. Expect updates to the SD-1 and a new addition to the DP Merrill series. A zoom DPM has been considered, but seems to not be very attractive because of the size and weight that would be required for the lens in order to assure a high image quality.


If this means a wider DP Merrill, sharp to the edges (or almost), that would be a dream come true for me!
 
Last edited:
I hope for medium format sensor in a camera size and lens, such as the
Fujifilm GA645 ZI. But, if sigma will offer me something in the region of the
VC 15mm f/4.5 lens, I think that it will be attractive to me (not that I'll
soon dump my 15mm lens).

Like this please (Leica MDa & VC 15/4.5)


post-610-129501522065.jpg



post-610-129624052631.jpg



post-610-129182351262.jpg



post-610-129017713554.jpg



post-610-12839488709.jpg

**
 
With the rain coming downs in buckets and no chance of outdoor shooting, I recently sat there reminiscing about my old Nikonos V. I thought about the wonderful 35/2.8 amphibious lens and the wonderful water (weather) proofing. I ran through my mind all the various iterations of current digital replacement submersibles like I had so many times in the past. Feeling as none of them were really worthy and still not able to decide (compromise) on any of them, I sat there as though hit by lightning...

DP4!

How about a fully waterproof, "ruggedized" submersible (amphibious) DP1??? Keep the 19 lens and everything else, just waterproof it! I would be first in line!
 
I have been thinking about getting a ir conversion done on one of my dp Merrill's. in talking by email w/ kolari vision.. I have discovered that the foveon sensor does not function correctly w/ a full ir conversion but it will w/ a full spectrum one. If u can then add a ir filter in front of the lens and it will focus correctly.

I have discovered that the ir converted Olympus epl1 I bought before Xmas can really stay in pretty low iso, about 2-3 stops better than a normal camera in the same light conditions.

Anyway I need to do more investigation about this. On the otherhand, the Leica m8 could be considered a partial full spectrum. I would need an ir cut filter at times.. I just happen to have a uv+ir cut filter around that I bought by accident.. Looks like I need to check out the ir issues that the m8 has.

I think your weatherproof dp Merrill is more likely then a 1 in a trillion hope that sigma does a full spectrum. So I will continue w/ my investigations.

Gary
 
GaryLH said:
I think your weatherproof dp Merrill is more likely then a 1 in a trillion hope that sigma does a full spectrum. So I will continue w/ my investigations.
Click to expand...

Well, I think with the "nicheyness" already demonstrated by Sigma and their bold lineup, that our dreams are just the sort of thing that could only happen with a manufacturer like Sigma.

When looking at the OP's (tsiklonaut) work in other threads, I just see him pulling my ruggedized DP4 from the soaking pannier on the side of his BMW twin in the middle of some African river crossing!

OK, back to staring out at the rain falling down...
 
burancap said:
How about a fully waterproof, "ruggedized" submersible (amphibious) DP1??? Keep the 19 lens and everything else, just waterproof it! I would be first in line!
Click to expand...

That would be very welcome addition indeed. In fact I did looked for a wateproof casing (Aquapazza Japan) for my DP2s during my travels to use as an extremely poor-weather tool. Plus I've always been fascinated by underwater photography while I simply do not like all the Bayer-type sensored digital underwater shots without that soulful color depth I've used to seeing from Nikons-age of E6 film NAT-GEO quality underwater shots. Always though Sigma perhaps could bring that slidefilm-like colour depth out in underwater conditions. Or at least to try Foveon X3 underwater photography sometime in my life. But cost of those UW cases were too high for me to bare. Perhaps designing a camera from ground up would come out cheaper.

burancap said:
Well, I think with the "nicheyness" already demonstrated by Sigma and their bold lineup, that our dreams are just the sort of thing that could only happen with a manufacturer like Sigma.
.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Sigma is the more "adventurous" thinker out of the bunch for some time now. Remember Sigma started the whole bigger-sensor compact digital trend while got no credit for it. The others just copyed the ideas and got all the limelight. Sigma's cameras R&Ds real problem is that they're focused too much on the IQ leaving all other functions lacking, hence it's not really cameras for "an average" photographer. They've got a near perfect lens-sensor-processingbrain combo, but average to poor focus speed, write times, etc. I hope Sigma continues to innovate the way they do but hopefully along with it spend more time on the other issues as well.


GaryLH said:
I have been thinking about getting a ir conversion done on one of my dp Merrill's. in talking by email w/ kolari vision.. I have discovered that the foveon sensor does not function correctly w/ a full ir conversion but it will w/ a full spectrum one. If u can then add a ir filter in front of the lens and it will focus correctly.

I have discovered that the ir converted Olympus epl1 I bought before Xmas can really stay in pretty low iso, about 2-3 stops better than a normal camera in the same light conditions.

Anyway I need to do more investigation about this. On the otherhand, the Leica m8 could be considered a partial full spectrum. I would need an ir cut filter at times.. I just happen to have a uv+ir cut filter around that I bought by accident.. Looks like I need to check out the ir issues that the m8 has.

I think your weatherproof dp Merrill is more likely then a 1 in a trillion hope that sigma does a full spectrum. So I will continue w/ my investigations.
Click to expand...


Don't think there's too much point in Foveon IR, it's spectrally separated three layer sensor afterall. Maybe it'd do well in color-IR (yellow or orange filter) using at least some part of 2-out-of-3 layers, but definitely not full B&W IR (with deep red- to real IR-filter), since it would effectively only use one layer (red) with IR-filtered light and thus highly compromising the advantages of a 3-layer sensor (leaving 2-layers completely dead and just making additional "dark" noise). Any normal CCD would probably do better in terms of noise since processing-brains are very highly developed in the later Bayer-sensored cameras in terms of channel separation and noise-shaping (it's the only reason why we see "nice" looking pictures out of otherwise very limtited Bayer-pattern sensors afterall - it's the mighty high level of manipulative "cheating" - R&D put into processing brains built into todays digital cameras).

Sigma's internal TRUEII processing engine isn't particulary good with red-only channel IMHO. I did some tests for killing time while I was stuck in Yemen waiting for a mandatory armed escort to ride alive to Sana'a. A shot out of the room window where I had to live enclosed for a week:



Sigma with 715 nanometer IR filter:

SDIM0935_s.jpg






Sigma with normal spectrum (w/o any filter):

SDIM0949_s.jpg






With this particular example I wanted to see if it separates the reddish-wooden structure from blue sky, but it didn't fair well IMHO. I think TRUEII just isn't programmed well enough to cope with such huge spectral differences. Some Bayer-CCD IR shots I've seen much better separation between blue and red, but overall the digital IR just doesn't have this "punch" along with the usual digital "sterile" looks IMHO.



While i.e. blue sky separation seen from a random film shots with the very same 715nm filter:



Tilted by tsiklonaut, on Flickr















Pühalepa Church by tsiklonaut, on Flickr


I'd rather see a new proper IR film (or even a combacks of some of the old, such as Kodak HIE or Efke IR820 AURA) coming to market than those cheating digital CCD-IR tweaks. In the digital terms Foveon X3 works the best in full visual spectrum, and should be left at doing what it does the best.

IMHO of course.

Margus
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom