Petrolhead
Member
Hi All,
I have been lurking in the forums for a while and this is my first post.
The shutter was operating very slowly initially, I have since sparingly oiled and cleaned the 3 main pivots of shutter. The shutter speed is operating correctly, more like 1/500 sec now but the shutter blade will not open fully forming a star shaped aperture when seen against a bright light source.
I am scratching my head almost admitting defeat now :bang::bang:
Thanks in advance for any help.
I have been lurking in the forums for a while and this is my first post.
The shutter was operating very slowly initially, I have since sparingly oiled and cleaned the 3 main pivots of shutter. The shutter speed is operating correctly, more like 1/500 sec now but the shutter blade will not open fully forming a star shaped aperture when seen against a bright light source.
I am scratching my head almost admitting defeat now :bang::bang:
Thanks in advance for any help.
btgc
Veteran
Looks like you have got apportunity to open shutter and see if blocking happens because of mechanical reasons (grease, fallen out part etc.) or electrical (weak electromagnet, though I doubt this).
Hard to understand which pivots you have oiled. Though if it weren't opening before and started afterwards then maybe it has got rust or leftovers from previous oiling session which also would call for opening.
Hard to understand which pivots you have oiled. Though if it weren't opening before and started afterwards then maybe it has got rust or leftovers from previous oiling session which also would call for opening.
02Pilot
Malcontent
AFAIK, the Copal Electric shutter should be run dry. Oil is not going to help. You'll want to get in there and clean everything thoroughly. The shutter and aperture blades may require removal, or you might get lucky and be able to get them moving freely with some graphite powder. If you haven't already, take a look at this page for some basic shutter info: http://mattsclassiccameras.com/electro_inside/index.html
Petrolhead
Member
Some Findings (Longish)
Some Findings (Longish)
Thanks for the replies.
Meanwhile, I mucked around with the shutter today, did some experiment and came to some very interesting findings. Indicated in the the picture, the shutter was cocked and a toothpick was inserted to prevent the latch circled from disengaging, when the shutter is tripped, the shutter opened fully indicating that there is no mechanical hindrance or blockage.
From the experiment, I also realised the latch circled is responsible for the closing of the shutter, could it be that the latch is disengaging too soon during normal operation of the shutter causing the blades to close before it had a chance to open fully. It could also be the blades are too slow to open and cannot extend fully when the latch disengages ?
Bear in mind that the shutter is by no means operating sluggishly or slow and I believe that it is operating at the correct default speed of 1/500. It's just that the blades are not opening fully. I already cleaned it twice with no improvement before lubing it sewing machine oil. I also cleaned the shutter blades with lighter fluid.
Thanks
Some Findings (Longish)
Thanks for the replies.
Meanwhile, I mucked around with the shutter today, did some experiment and came to some very interesting findings. Indicated in the the picture, the shutter was cocked and a toothpick was inserted to prevent the latch circled from disengaging, when the shutter is tripped, the shutter opened fully indicating that there is no mechanical hindrance or blockage.
From the experiment, I also realised the latch circled is responsible for the closing of the shutter, could it be that the latch is disengaging too soon during normal operation of the shutter causing the blades to close before it had a chance to open fully. It could also be the blades are too slow to open and cannot extend fully when the latch disengages ?
Bear in mind that the shutter is by no means operating sluggishly or slow and I believe that it is operating at the correct default speed of 1/500. It's just that the blades are not opening fully. I already cleaned it twice with no improvement before lubing it sewing machine oil. I also cleaned the shutter blades with lighter fluid.
Thanks
Attachments
02Pilot
Malcontent
When dealing with old shutters, my money's usually on dirt or old/improper lubricants as the first suspects. What exactly did you oil? As noted, the shutter should be run dry; oil may be slowing down the operation. When you say you cleaned the blades, did you disassemble fully or just flush them in place? I've run into issues with shutter blades where no amount of cleaning with lighter fluid or any other liquid solvent would make them run smoothly; only powdered graphite, rubbed gently on both sides, fixed it for good.
mikemc_photo
Established
Is that the flash sync section?
02Pilot
Malcontent
No, it's the blade closing latch.
Petrolhead
Member
Thanks for your reply.
The shutter was cleaned twice and ran dry but the shutter blades still refused to open fully. It was than that I decided to lube the pivots with some very light viscosity sewing machine oil and thought it would fix the problem. The lube did not fix the problem nor did it made it any worse, the problem remained, it refused to open fully. The shutter was actually dismantled and the individual blades were cleaned on both sides with lighter fluid. The Blade operating Ring (Page 112 of the Yashica service manual) was also removed and cleaned with lighter fluid.
The picture below illustrates the pivots that were lubed very sparingly with sewing machine oil.
Thanks
Attachments
monopix
Cam repairer
The shutter speed with no power will/should be faster than 1/500th. The 1/500th speed is adjusted by the eccentric at the capacitor shorting switch. I've never checked if the shutter fully opens with no power but I think you might just be chasing your tail by doing your tests with the shutter out of the camera and no power applied. Do you have the repair manual? It's at http://www.scribd.com/doc/19302555/Yashica-Electro-35-Service-Manual if you haven't.
Petrolhead
Member
Thanks for the response.
You may be correct, the shutter might have to be in the circuit and under power to operate at 1/500. But then again, I have another Yashica Electro 35 (S/N 90551852) on the bench of which the shutter opens fully without batteries installed.
This shutter came from a very early series Yashica Electro 35 (S/N 021385). Yashica may have two versions of shutters and made changes along the way.
I cleaned the blades again today, for the 3rd time and don't see any improvement and will heed your valuable advice and test the shutter in situ.
Thanks
monopix
Cam repairer
Not sure if there were two versions of the shutter - never seen two. But working mechanically, and given their age, no two are likely to be exactly the same. Maybe the one you are working on has a weaker spring so the blades aren't opening as fast. This is a guess.
btgc
Veteran
This shutter works at default 1/500th even without batteries (and it's only speed it is capable without juice). At that speed it's hard to observe if blades opens fully - for me, anyway. If they do it at speed allowing to see opening is not full then we are dealing with some other speed than 1/500. Question is whether slow speed is chosen by circuit or caused by malfunction of shutter when 1/500 is expected and can be only possible speed (as said, with removed batteries or POD issues).
Petrolhead
Member
Thanks for all the responses, it is certainly very helpful for a newbie like me.
There are different version of the control module listed in the Yashica Manual. The camera I am working on is installed with the early control module type 368. At this moment I tend to assume that the control module might have some influence on the default 1/500 speed of the shutter - wishful assumption maybe !
It is just an educated guess and it cannot be confirmed until I test the shutter in situ. I will post results once I get the shutter back in the camera.
Thanks.
There are different version of the control module listed in the Yashica Manual. The camera I am working on is installed with the early control module type 368. At this moment I tend to assume that the control module might have some influence on the default 1/500 speed of the shutter - wishful assumption maybe !
It is just an educated guess and it cannot be confirmed until I test the shutter in situ. I will post results once I get the shutter back in the camera.
Thanks.
Petrolhead
Member
Shutter Back In Camera
Shutter Back In Camera
I'd say I will post results once the shutter is back in the camera. Well I finally got the shutter back into the camera and all the electronics is working. The over and under lights are responding correctly.
The shutter still refuses to open fully at 1/500 and it lead me to believe the problem still lies with the shutter which has a mechanical problem I cannot solve.
This camera will end up as a static display until I can get a cheap replacement shutter from the bay.
Shutter Back In Camera
I'd say I will post results once the shutter is back in the camera. Well I finally got the shutter back into the camera and all the electronics is working. The over and under lights are responding correctly.
The shutter still refuses to open fully at 1/500 and it lead me to believe the problem still lies with the shutter which has a mechanical problem I cannot solve.
This camera will end up as a static display until I can get a cheap replacement shutter from the bay.
mikemc_photo
Established
I suspect impact, bending the mech plate. Most places I see electro 35, all models priced working for $20. or so....