Z7II or 850?

[Benjamin Marks]

Here's the thing: when I go on DPReview and I look at the studio set up scene, I cannot tell the difference between the detail resolution of the Z7II -- the new shiny bling, bling -- and the Nikon D850 -- the tried and true -- at their native ISO settings. Heck, I can't even tell the difference at ISO3200. So here's the question -- if you have a choice, what do you do? I have been buying Nikon lenses since 1989 and have pretty much all the F-mount glass I would ever need. But the Z-mount is clearly the wave of the future.

On the one hand I could get a used D850 for around $1,400 and have all that large file quality goodness, On the other, if you spend the mid-bux on a great used D850, you're that much further away from being able to afford the big-bux $2,500 (used)/$2,900(new) latest and greatest, wave of the future-est. But/and if you go for the new-shiny, you probably also need new glass, which puts the whole new-ness just that much farther out of reach.

So what's RFF's take on this? Bite the bullet and move forward? Or incrementalism?

 

[Austintatious]

I believe your F glass will work fine on the Z with an adaptor. You could start there. I read that the native Z glass is excellent.
For myself, I went Sony mirrorless to use legacy lenses. No regrets. Already had the glass and adapters are cheap.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Nikon is rumored to be coming out with a new series of cameras for the Z line-up. The recent price reductions on the current models is usually a good predictor. I'd wait a couple of months before spending over $2K on a Z7-II.

I bought a Z5 for use with legacy lenses. 24MPixels is enough resolution for the older lenses. At some point, you are paying extra for a higher resolution sensor to store a larger file that resolves blur. For the $1K price of the Z5, I picked it up to see how I liked it.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

@ Austintatious -- I guess the question I have is this: do you really get to enjoy the advantages of the mirrorless body if you aren't using the native lenses? I was tempted by Sony a couple of years ago, but there were cautionary tales about using adapted lenses wider than 35mm. You can really focus with your legacy glass? Maybe the advantages of digital focusing screens are the trick . . .?

 

[x-ray]

I retired this year after nearly 55 years as a commercial photographer and studio owner. I did product, annual reports and advertising and absolutely NO weddings or family portraits. I’m old school for my work and new school for my play.

I used Nikon digital primarily but there was a period I had Canon dslr’s. Also used a Hasselblad digital back on a 501cm. Given the type of work I did and going back to the film days I like to look directly through the lens. For my work I didn’t like the processing introduced by the cameras electronics. I like looking through the lens whether through a prism, RF or ground glass and seeing the actual tonality and separation. Having digital processing between me and the subject skews my judgement.

Just a personal preference.

I still have a lot of my digital gear but bought a Fuji X body and several lenses that I use for pure enjoyment. It’s smaller, lighter, superb quality although not quite as good as the Nikons but plenty good for many jobs, and intuitive. The controls are where they should be on the top right at your finger tip. I can change settings without removing the camera from my eye. It’s like a film, real, camera. Remember I’m an old guy and old school.

I personally would get the D850. You can’t go wrong either way but what would a Z camera do for your photography that a D850 won’t.

Forums simply put too much emphasis on equipment when the secret is in you.

You didn’t say whether you’re trying to get into photography or whether it’s for pleasure. I assume you’re not experienced since you asked this question.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

@ Austintatious -- I guess the question I have is this: do you really get to enjoy the advantages of the mirrorless body if you aren't using the native lenses? I was tempted by Sony a couple of years ago, but there were cautionary tales about using adapted lenses wider than 35mm. You can really focus with your legacy glass? Maybe the advantages of digital focusing screens are the trick . . .?

Cautionary tales on adapter lenses wider than 35mm? A retro-focus wide-angle will not be a problem with a digital sensor.

I bought an S-Mount adapter this week, first lens tried was the non-retrofocus 1950s Contax Biogon 21/4.5. No problems focusing, will try it in more depth this weekend.

I find the Z5 with focus peaking and manual focus lenses is much easier than using the Df with manual focus lenses. I bought the Df the day it came out, and the Z5 two weeks ago. Focus peaking is more like using a split-image rangefinder, using edge detection.

 

[x-ray]

Cautionary tales on adapter lenses wider than 35mm? A retro-focus wide-angle will not be a problem with a digital sensor.

I bought an S-Mount adapter this week, first lens tried was the non-retrofocus 1950s Contax Biogon 21/4.5. No problems focusing, will try it in more depth this weekend.

I find the Z5 with focus peaking and manual focus lenses is much easier than using the Df with manual focus lenses. I bought the Df the day it came out, and the Z5 two weeks ago. Focus peaking is more like using a split-image rangefinder, using edge detection.

Again it’s a personal choice. Focus peaking is great but I absolutely love my Df. It’s the last camera I’d get rid of.

 

[brusby]

I came up old school and appreciate optical viewfinders too. But mirrorless is the bomb for focusing fast lenses at wide apertures. I've found nothing else that can compare. It can make difficult lenses a real pleasure to use and can seriously increase the hit rate.

 

[Vince Lupo]

If I were to truly go ‘big bux latest and greatest’, it would be the Z9. Only thing I don’t like about it is its size. I have the Z7 and I do like it, but I am waiting to see if the Z8 finally comes out this year and if it maintains that same Z6/7 footprint.

So in answer to your question, if price is the concern then sure the D850. But maybe since I’ve been bitten by the Z bug I’m now partial to them.

 

[trix4ever]

I used nikon since 1974, have used digital nikon in the form of d2x, d300, d3s, Df, d810, d500 and still own all of them.
I already had mirrorless digital in the form of Leica SL and Sony a7rii, I thought I'd try a z6 for fun, bought the 24-70 f2.8 and 14-30 f4, was very happy with the 24-70, less so with the 14-30 then I thought I'd get the 35 and 24 primes. After sending 3 of the 35's and 2 of the 24's back for massive decentering problems I gave up on the primes the qc was rubbish. After using the z6 for over a year I find I constantly press buttons by accident, frustrating me enormously. When I have a commercial job I always pick up the d810 and if it's a low light event, the d3s. I keep trying the z6 but I just don't trust it's autofocus as it keeps focussing on the background, the 3d tracking is diabolical to use, so basically I'm going back to the DSLR's.
The SL is much better than the z6 for adapted leica M lenses, which is all I use it for.
If I were you, with all your F lenses I would not hesitate to go for the D850, it's a wonderful camera, I'll probably get one myself now I've decided to concentrate on using nikon DLSR's, they are still some of the best cameras in the world.

 

[Austintatious]

Wide lenses are easily used on mirrorless with the exception of the Jupiter 12, 35mm. I have and use Nikon AF film and DSLR cameras but I seem to reach for the mirrorless cameras first when I want to make photos.My son-in-law was a D850 user but recently traded for Z7 II. 😀

 

[dexdog]

Whether the J-12 can be used on a mirrorless depends on the camera. In my case, it would not mount on the APS-C Sonys, but fits and works just fine on full-frame cameras like the Sony a7 or a7iii, and Nikon Z6

 

[Evergreen States]

I won't tell you which one to get, but I will say a few things.

The thing about using an adapter for your legacy DSLR lenses is that the mirrorless body is fairly thin and compact but the adapter AND the lens will add some length that can make it awkward to hold, both in shape and weight distribution. I sometimes throw an adapted Minolta lens on my Fuji X-Pro3 for gits and shiggles but it's never been a regular part of my workflow. The Nikon Z lenses look outstanding, many of them pretty reasonably-sized and -priced for modern mirrorless lenses. German photography youtuber Samuel Streetlife has recently made a couple videos discussing his move back to DSLRs. He still shoots the Ricoh GRIII but also uses a Nikon D850. Among the reasons, he cites that DSLRs are a fully mature technology, are cheaper as photographers sell them off to jump ship to mirrorless and for the pleasures of an optical viewfinder.

DSLR's are the new Leica.
WHY I use a DSLR for Street Photography & How (Nikon D850)

 

[Ronald M]

I used nikon since 1974, have used digital nikon in the form of d2x, d300, d3s, Df, d810, d500 and still own all of them.
I already had mirrorless digital in the form of Leica SL and Sony a7rii, I thought I'd try a z6 for fun, bought the 24-70 f2.8 and 14-30 f4, was very happy with the 24-70, less so with the 14-30 then I thought I'd get the 35 and 24 primes. After sending 3 of the 35's and 2 of the 24's back for massive decentering problems I gave up on the primes the qc was rubbish. After using the z6 for over a year I find I constantly press buttons by accident, frustrating me enormously. When I have a commercial job I always pick up the d810 and if it's a low light event, the d3s. I keep trying the z6 but I just don't trust it's autofocus as it keeps focussing on the background, the 3d tracking is diabolical to use, so basically I'm going back to the DSLR's.
The SL is much better than the z6 for adapted leica M lenses, which is all I use it for.
If I were you, with all your F lenses I would not hesitate to go for the D850, it's a wonderful camera, I'll probably get one myself now I've decided to concentrate on using nikon DLSR's, they are still some of the best cameras in the world.

Back to DSLR for me too. Z is fad camera. Advantage is they take Leica lenses, 35 mm up to 800. Wides are screwed up focus.

 

[MarkWalberg]

I bought a Z6 refurb from Nikonusa for under $1k at their Thanksgiving sale. It is like new. I've been using Nikon SLRs for decades, from F to D810. All I use is the Z6 now. I got a Fotasy $10 adapter and I'm using my Canon rangefinder lenses on the Z6.

I've not had this much fun taking pictures in many years. I've rediscovered how great my Canon 100/2 lens is, particularly at f2. The 25 mm Canon works great, too. With Brian's pointer, I have an adapter on the way to put the 50/0.95 on the Z.

Plus, with the great high iso performance of the Z, I am getting pictures that I would never get with film.
As Brian says, the focus peaking is a very neat and useful tool. In addition to helping get good focus of your subject, it gives you a very good way to see where the focus is in your background.

The Z6 has opened a whole new world for using my old rangefinder lenses.

 

[Ronald M]

I bought a Z6 refurb from Nikonusa for under $1k at their Thanksgiving sale. It is like new. I've been using Nikon SLRs for decades, from F to D810. All I use is the Z6 now. I got a Fotasy $10 adapter and I'm using my Canon rangefinder lenses on the Z6.

I've not had this much fun taking pictures in many years. I've rediscovered how great my Canon 100/2 lens is, particularly at f2. The 25 mm Canon works great, too. With Brian's pointer, I have an adapter on the way to put the 50/0.95 on the Z.

Plus, with the great high iso performance of the Z, I am getting pictures that I would never get with film.
As Brian says, the focus peaking is a very neat and useful tool. In addition to helping get good focus of your subject, it gives you a very good way to see where the focus is in your background.

The Z6 has opened a whole new world for using my old rangefinder lenses.

You can set it up and save in one of U modes for the back focus to become zoom to 100%. Perfect for focus of RF glass.

 

[maddoc]

I got my hands on a Z7 II recently and the camera rocks, excellent quality of the files and very good handling. I have the Voigtlander LTM to Z macro-adapter and using 1:1 VF magnification together with peak focusing it is possible to focus the Noctilux at f/1.0 and in the macro position of the adapter. The DoF is extremely shallow but focusing easier than with a Leica RF at the native minimum focal distance of the Noctilux. I bough the FTZ II adapter to use the Micro-Nikkor 55/2.8 for film scanning. I don't do any sports or action photography so I don't worry about the short blackouts in the EVF during continuous shooting. The Z-line of lenses are outstanding. I use the 24-70/4.0, 50/1.8 S, 105/2.8 Macro and 40/2.0. Additionally, I got the Tampon 70-300 in Z-mount that was released last autumn, a very good lens, too.

 

[Photon42]

I would always go for the Z, if you can live with the digital viewfinder. IBIS alone is a big plus and manual focussing is really great. While the viewfinder is electric, it is a joy to use in my eyes (pun intended). If you have lots of 1st gen AF F-lenses, then maybe pick a used 850, if you intend to keep them. Scewdrivers don't autofocus on the Z cameras.
I have the Z7 since Fall 2018 and no plans to replace it with a newer model at this point. My prime lenses (20/35/50/85) work very well. There is almost always a deal for one of those out there. Leica M lenses work surprisingly well, too. Depends a bit on the individual lens. The Voigtlander M adapter has a close focussing feature which is wonderful.
There is one more thing no one talks about but I love the feature: you can set up your phone to be connected to the camera using low power bluetooth. This then does not only allow for automatic transfer of photos to the phone (2MBish each) but also stores GPS information in the images files in camera. Deleting the photos on the phone is a peace of cake, but it gives me the instant opportunity to just send it off.

 

[Dogman]

Go against the grain. Buy the D850. It's a better still photo camera than using a video camera for still photos.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

Go against the grain. Buy the D850. It's a better still photo camera than using a video camera for still photos.

That's interesting as an observation. Why is it a better still photo camera in your view?