farlymac
PF McFarland
You know how folks say that the "parts" camera they buy to fix the one they have usually winds up being in better shape? No such luck here.
My first B has issues such as the shutter is a little wonky, and someone painted over the film gate inside the camera instead of removing the rust/corrosion. And of course, being unused for so long, it had accumulated the lens haze, and viewfinder crud common to bad storage. A project for the winter, I told myself.
So I put a bid on one the other night, curious as to what the top was, and thinking that it would be overbid quite easily. Well, that didn't work out so good. I won it by $0.75 on a $51 bid. And this was with two hours to go! Imagine my surprise when I checked my e-mails the next morning and found an invoice.
So it arrived today. Looks really nice, with only the bottom covers missing (my first one has bits and pieces torn off all over, but intact bottom covers). And as the sellers description said, the usual lens haze and viewfinder crud. The shutter works fine, and although they said the rangefinder was a little off, I checked it against the known distances inside my apartment, and it seemed fine.
What they failed to mention was the lens standard is bent, so it tends to look down, and to the right. And that the frame counter was inoperative. Looks like my older camera is going to be the one donating parts instead. Yep, winter is coming on.
PF
My first B has issues such as the shutter is a little wonky, and someone painted over the film gate inside the camera instead of removing the rust/corrosion. And of course, being unused for so long, it had accumulated the lens haze, and viewfinder crud common to bad storage. A project for the winter, I told myself.
So I put a bid on one the other night, curious as to what the top was, and thinking that it would be overbid quite easily. Well, that didn't work out so good. I won it by $0.75 on a $51 bid. And this was with two hours to go! Imagine my surprise when I checked my e-mails the next morning and found an invoice.
So it arrived today. Looks really nice, with only the bottom covers missing (my first one has bits and pieces torn off all over, but intact bottom covers). And as the sellers description said, the usual lens haze and viewfinder crud. The shutter works fine, and although they said the rangefinder was a little off, I checked it against the known distances inside my apartment, and it seemed fine.
What they failed to mention was the lens standard is bent, so it tends to look down, and to the right. And that the frame counter was inoperative. Looks like my older camera is going to be the one donating parts instead. Yep, winter is coming on.
PF
GaryLH
Veteran
What a bummer.. Hope it works out. The Zeiss folders have one of the stronger designs for standards. I would guess it would take a decent amount of force to bend it.
Gary
Gary
farlymac
PF McFarland
I'm currently working on an Ikonta 521/2 that the owner said was jammed so that he couldn't get it past halfway open or closed. I couldn't for the life of me think what would cause that without looking at the camera. When I got it I found out he had neglected to tell me he had dropped it. Struts are all bent, door was out of alignment, and whatever it hit on the way down left a bunch of gouges in the frame.
I'd work on it for a while, and then put it down for a day or so, to let the metal memory return. After a few times doing this, I finally got the camera to open, close, and latch up, but it will never be the same. Zeiss made their cameras with such close tolerances even a minor bend in a strut causes a malfunction.
It now needs some manipulation by the user to work properly, as the lens standard just will not rotate correctly. I also have to clean the large paint flecks out of the lens/shutter assembly that came loose when it hit the deck, and replace the double-exposure prevention which has a broken spring.
PF
citizen99
Well-known
I feel for you ! I've sometimes got a bit better or a bit worse than I hoped from the description/illustration of a parts camera, but nothing that I would consider to be deliberate omission. It could yet happen...
edinator
Member
I just cleaned up a Super Ikonta 531/2 with a hazy lense. As long as it's not fungus, you'll probably get it back to very usable condition with some lighter fluid.
farlymac
PF McFarland
Might be a job for a depth gauge/dial gauge, some blocks and a surface plate. I've got an early Bessa 6x9, absolutely gorgeous nick, Compur Rapid shutter, Skopar lens, looks almost new. But the lens standard is bent to the ****house. It's not a top priority repair but I can see it being a tedious, fiddly, job. Sounds like it's not as bad as your challenges, though Phil. I reckon someone either sat on this thing with it in their pocket, or tried to jam it shut without unlocking the struts. I'll have to straighten it by trial and error using the above tools to get it back to parallel. Folders are great when they work. But when they don't...
Cheers,
Brett
Cheers,
Brett
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Brett,
Which is depressingly often. A law of nature suggests that the good ones get used most and damaged most: it's the basic ones with the 3-speed shutters and cheapo lenses that are most often in near-new order.
It's just occurred to me: presumably there were only a few designs of struts in Zeiss folders, rather than every single model having a unique strut design (though knowing Zeiss, that's possible too). I wonder if anyone knows which ones are interchangeable.
Cheers,
R.
johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
A good question - can you post some pics of yours?
farlymac
PF McFarland
I was this close >II< to having the 521/2 back in working order, and out shooting some film today. Took me a while to figure out why the self timer was not running off all the way. Turns out someone has been inside the Compur shutter before, and did some "repairs"/"adjustments" that are not in the factory manual.
The spring on the B Lever Hold was bent all to whack, and shoved out the opening where the cable release port is. The B Lever then would not hold the Shutter Trip lever, so it would not hold the Catch from hooking the first notch in the Cocking Rack, which then caused the Self Timer to stop its run. Also, the Catch had been bent so even when I held the B Hold in place, the catch would still hook the first notch on the Cocking Rack.
Got the Catch properly adjusted, and when I started to figure out how to redo the spring on the B Hold, it broke off. I don't have any Compur shutters lying around, and if I did they'd probably be from the wrong camera. I'll have to take a photo after supper to show you all what I need, but if you have a Compur from a 521/2 you can spare, that would help. I'll pay in anything but BitCoins.
PF
The spring on the B Lever Hold was bent all to whack, and shoved out the opening where the cable release port is. The B Lever then would not hold the Shutter Trip lever, so it would not hold the Catch from hooking the first notch in the Cocking Rack, which then caused the Self Timer to stop its run. Also, the Catch had been bent so even when I held the B Hold in place, the catch would still hook the first notch on the Cocking Rack.
Got the Catch properly adjusted, and when I started to figure out how to redo the spring on the B Hold, it broke off. I don't have any Compur shutters lying around, and if I did they'd probably be from the wrong camera. I'll have to take a photo after supper to show you all what I need, but if you have a Compur from a 521/2 you can spare, that would help. I'll pay in anything but BitCoins.
PF
farlymac
PF McFarland
Compur failure in a Zeiss Ikonta 521/2
Compur failure in a Zeiss Ikonta 521/2
Failed action while the Self Timer was running, resulting in the Self Timer stopping before the end of its run, and the shutter not working.
This also happens to be the normal position of the Cocking Rack after the shutter has been charged. Just to the right of the rack knob lever at the top of the shutter barrel you can see the Stop and Catch for the Self Timer position of the rack. This has to be manually depressed to let the Cocking Rack go into the Self Timer position.
Compur Shutter Failure 2 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
1) B Hold: Did not retain the B Lever.
2) B Lever: Fully released, allowing the Shutter Trip Lever to return to the start position.
3) Shutter Trip Lever: Did not keep the Catch clear of the Cocking Rack.
4) Catch: Was allowed to hook the first notch in the Cocking Rack, stopping all action, and resulting in a total failure of the shutter.
Normal action while the Self Timer is running. (The toothpick is there to freeze the action)
Compur Shutter Failure 4 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
1) B Hold: In proper position to retain the B Lever in a mid position until the Self Timer runs off.
2) B Lever: Keeping the Shutter Trip Lever from returning to its start position, and holding the Catch open.
3) Catch: Being held away from the Cocking Rack by the Shutter Trip Lever, so the Self Timer can complete its run.
B Hold lever parts.
Compur Shutter Failure 5 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
1) Retaining Screw
2) B Hold Lever, underside
3) Tension Spring, broken off.
NOTE: The shutter will operate normally without the B Hold being in a working condition. However, if the Cocking Rack is ever moved to the Self Timer position, the shutter will fail, locking up the action.
There are a couple more photos at the link below if you're really into this stuff.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskniAu9Y
PF
Compur failure in a Zeiss Ikonta 521/2
Failed action while the Self Timer was running, resulting in the Self Timer stopping before the end of its run, and the shutter not working.
This also happens to be the normal position of the Cocking Rack after the shutter has been charged. Just to the right of the rack knob lever at the top of the shutter barrel you can see the Stop and Catch for the Self Timer position of the rack. This has to be manually depressed to let the Cocking Rack go into the Self Timer position.
Compur Shutter Failure 2 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
1) B Hold: Did not retain the B Lever.
2) B Lever: Fully released, allowing the Shutter Trip Lever to return to the start position.
3) Shutter Trip Lever: Did not keep the Catch clear of the Cocking Rack.
4) Catch: Was allowed to hook the first notch in the Cocking Rack, stopping all action, and resulting in a total failure of the shutter.
Normal action while the Self Timer is running. (The toothpick is there to freeze the action)
Compur Shutter Failure 4 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
1) B Hold: In proper position to retain the B Lever in a mid position until the Self Timer runs off.
2) B Lever: Keeping the Shutter Trip Lever from returning to its start position, and holding the Catch open.
3) Catch: Being held away from the Cocking Rack by the Shutter Trip Lever, so the Self Timer can complete its run.
B Hold lever parts.
Compur Shutter Failure 5 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
1) Retaining Screw
2) B Hold Lever, underside
3) Tension Spring, broken off.
NOTE: The shutter will operate normally without the B Hold being in a working condition. However, if the Cocking Rack is ever moved to the Self Timer position, the shutter will fail, locking up the action.
There are a couple more photos at the link below if you're really into this stuff.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskniAu9Y
PF
You've done some good diagnosis, Phil. The only spares I might have on hand would be for later Synchro Compurs which probably won't help. But I reckon someone here ought to have a junker with the part you need though. Given a photo and some measurements of a good condition spring, you might even be able to substitute one from another camera if needed. Keep us posted please.
Cheers,
Brett
Cheers,
Brett
Roger,
Nice to hear from you. I've still got that Snowdon book here for you, safely wrapped, awaiting your instructions. Drop me a line!
Cheers
Brett
farlymac
PF McFarland
Thanks, Brett. Since this one was mangled from the start, I have no idea what the bends are supposed to be, or even where it hooks to on the shutter. It took me months to find another matching camera so I could replace a shutter on an Agfa Isolette.
PF
PF
Hi Phil,
I'm wondering if one of the manuals I linked to a while ago (see this thread) might show a diagram or pic of the part? Otherwise I might have a manual here for the Rimset Compur I could send you if that helps?
Cheers
Brett
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Brett,
Gosh! Sorry. As you know, my father died (in July) and that drove quite a lot of things out of my mind. Will send PM.
Cheers,
R.
Dear Roger,
Actually, I didn't know that. How I missed it, I don't know. But please accept my sincere condolences, belated as they are.
Cheers,
Brett
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
None of mine appear to be interchangeable, but then, I have not hoarded very similar folders - there is at least one model generation between mine. Still, if Zeiss Ikon had cross-model compatibilities, they will be fairly limited.
And the struts and bodies are riveted in many critical areas, which makes them hard to take apart and reassemble without damage. In my experience it takes original factory tools, templates and parts to fix folder bodies or struts successfully.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Brett,
Thanks. There's no real reason why you should have known, I suppose. It's just that it's been long enough now that quite a lot of people do know. I should have written "As you may know..."
He was 88. In fact, 88 and five weeks. His last two or three months were such that his death fell into the category of "merciful release".
Thanks again,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
All of this sounds distressingly likely... I was posting mostly in hope, I suppose.
Cheers,
R.