fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
Hi there,
I still can't decide. Should i get a c sonnar 50mm optimized for 1,5 or not.
Is there any reason to get the original version rather than the version optimized for 1,5?
I still can't decide. Should i get a c sonnar 50mm optimized for 1,5 or not.
Is there any reason to get the original version rather than the version optimized for 1,5?
akiralx
Established
I don't think there is - even if you could get one as I understand they're all optimised for f/1.5 now. I seem to recall most of the f/2.8 owners spent a lot of time leaning forward when shooting it wideopen which you would probably do quite often.
pphuang
brain drain...
You may find this thread of interest - http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51742
What is the point of having a fast lens if you cannot focus it wide-open.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
pphuang: thanks for the lead. Very informative.
Stlll does not make the choice any easier...... a toss up between the character of the 50mm sonnar vs the precision of the 50mm planar......hmm
Stlll does not make the choice any easier...... a toss up between the character of the 50mm sonnar vs the precision of the 50mm planar......hmm
abenner
undecided
Zeiss' opinion
Zeiss' opinion
I once contacted Zeiss about finding out whether I had a 1.5 or 2.8 optimized version and how one goes about getting the lens adjusted if needed. Here was the response I got from Zeiss:
Dear Mr. Benner,
thanks for your request.
It is not possible to know about the calibration of a lens by its serial number.
Depending on the type of camera in use, the tolerances of the rangefinder and flange focal adjustment of the camera, and the preferred f-stop you are using you will get slightly different results regarding focusing accuracy.
So please make some tests with your camera to decide if you would have get the lens readjusted. Only a few photographers felt that another kind of adjustment of their C-Sonnar lens would fit better to their demands until now.
If you´d like to get your lens recalibrated, you can contact our representative in the US:
Carl Zeiss MicroImaging, Inc.
(Regional Distribution Partner)
Photo Division
One Zeiss Drive
10594 Thornwood / NY
Phone: +1 800 543 1033
rschleuning@zeiss.com
USA
or you can send your lens directly to us. Therefore, please fill out the following repair form and add it together with the neccessary documents (warranty card, copy of the invoice) to the shipment:
Here is some further information about the classic C-Sonnar lens:
C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM
Information about special features for dealers and users
The C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM is a very special lens; based on a classical lens design concept from the 1930´s. The additional letter “C” in the name of the lens expresses this designation.
This lens design helps to achieve pictures with a special artistic touch. This lens ‘draws’ your subject in a fine, flattering manner and is therefore ideally suited for portraiture. It renders a sharpness that is slightly rounded, being less aggressive than in contemporary lens designs, but at the same time not soft in its rendition.
Many famous portraits of glamorous and prominent people during the 1930´s used this technique to great effect. These images are characterized by portraying the person in a shining, nearly celestial way. This effect is very well balanced and not exaggerated; therefore many viewers see it in a subconscious way. The trained observer, however, understands the underlining technique and enjoys the results.
This lens design exhibits some additional effects, which should be understood to achieve the maximum benefit from the C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM:
Because of the above mentioned classical characteristic of the lens the best focus position in the object space can not be kept exactly constant for all f-stop settings.
The passionate photographer might notice a slightly closer best focus in his pictures than expected. When stopping down the lens to f/2.8 or smaller this effect is minimized, so the focus position will be as expected.
In order to balance the performance at full speed and other f-stop settings the lens is adjusted with above described characteristic.
The special features of the C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM are best used in emotional, artistic, narrative images, portraits or atmospheric landscapes. For documentation or technical subjects Carl Zeiss recommends to stop down the lens at least to f/5.6 or to use the Planar T* 2/50 ZM lens.
If the C Sonnar T* 1,5/50 ZM should predominantly be used at full aperture, in a few cases a recalibration of the lens to f/1.5 might be necessary to minimize focus shift at full aperture. Together with this calibration to f/1.5 comes an increase of the focus shift at f/2.8 and smaller, but this will be covered by the depth-of-field in most cases.
Because the results of the focus shift of the C Sonnar in practical use depend on different factors (e.g. on the calibration of the flange focal distance and rangefinder of the camera body in use, the preferred distances and f stops, the 3-dimensionality of the subject etc), we strongly recommend to make individual test shots with a C Sonnar before you decide to send it in for recalibration.
In most cases, a recalibration of the lens is not necessary.
If you´d like to get your lens recalibrated, you have the following alternatives:
-return it to the dealer where you purchased it, so he can send in the lens to us
-send it to our distributor in the country of purchase
-send it to us (Carl Zeiss Germany), if you have an European warranty card that came with your lens
-send it to Cosina, Japan, if a Japanese warranty card was included
The recalibration is free of charge as long as the lens is covered by warranty.
Best Regards
Bertram Hönlinger
Zeiss' opinion
I once contacted Zeiss about finding out whether I had a 1.5 or 2.8 optimized version and how one goes about getting the lens adjusted if needed. Here was the response I got from Zeiss:
Dear Mr. Benner,
thanks for your request.
It is not possible to know about the calibration of a lens by its serial number.
Depending on the type of camera in use, the tolerances of the rangefinder and flange focal adjustment of the camera, and the preferred f-stop you are using you will get slightly different results regarding focusing accuracy.
So please make some tests with your camera to decide if you would have get the lens readjusted. Only a few photographers felt that another kind of adjustment of their C-Sonnar lens would fit better to their demands until now.
If you´d like to get your lens recalibrated, you can contact our representative in the US:
Carl Zeiss MicroImaging, Inc.
(Regional Distribution Partner)
Photo Division
One Zeiss Drive
10594 Thornwood / NY
Phone: +1 800 543 1033
rschleuning@zeiss.com
USA
or you can send your lens directly to us. Therefore, please fill out the following repair form and add it together with the neccessary documents (warranty card, copy of the invoice) to the shipment:
Here is some further information about the classic C-Sonnar lens:
C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM
Information about special features for dealers and users
The C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM is a very special lens; based on a classical lens design concept from the 1930´s. The additional letter “C” in the name of the lens expresses this designation.
This lens design helps to achieve pictures with a special artistic touch. This lens ‘draws’ your subject in a fine, flattering manner and is therefore ideally suited for portraiture. It renders a sharpness that is slightly rounded, being less aggressive than in contemporary lens designs, but at the same time not soft in its rendition.
Many famous portraits of glamorous and prominent people during the 1930´s used this technique to great effect. These images are characterized by portraying the person in a shining, nearly celestial way. This effect is very well balanced and not exaggerated; therefore many viewers see it in a subconscious way. The trained observer, however, understands the underlining technique and enjoys the results.
This lens design exhibits some additional effects, which should be understood to achieve the maximum benefit from the C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM:
Because of the above mentioned classical characteristic of the lens the best focus position in the object space can not be kept exactly constant for all f-stop settings.
The passionate photographer might notice a slightly closer best focus in his pictures than expected. When stopping down the lens to f/2.8 or smaller this effect is minimized, so the focus position will be as expected.
In order to balance the performance at full speed and other f-stop settings the lens is adjusted with above described characteristic.
The special features of the C Sonnar T* 1.5/50 ZM are best used in emotional, artistic, narrative images, portraits or atmospheric landscapes. For documentation or technical subjects Carl Zeiss recommends to stop down the lens at least to f/5.6 or to use the Planar T* 2/50 ZM lens.
If the C Sonnar T* 1,5/50 ZM should predominantly be used at full aperture, in a few cases a recalibration of the lens to f/1.5 might be necessary to minimize focus shift at full aperture. Together with this calibration to f/1.5 comes an increase of the focus shift at f/2.8 and smaller, but this will be covered by the depth-of-field in most cases.
Because the results of the focus shift of the C Sonnar in practical use depend on different factors (e.g. on the calibration of the flange focal distance and rangefinder of the camera body in use, the preferred distances and f stops, the 3-dimensionality of the subject etc), we strongly recommend to make individual test shots with a C Sonnar before you decide to send it in for recalibration.
In most cases, a recalibration of the lens is not necessary.
If you´d like to get your lens recalibrated, you have the following alternatives:
-return it to the dealer where you purchased it, so he can send in the lens to us
-send it to our distributor in the country of purchase
-send it to us (Carl Zeiss Germany), if you have an European warranty card that came with your lens
-send it to Cosina, Japan, if a Japanese warranty card was included
The recalibration is free of charge as long as the lens is covered by warranty.
Best Regards
Bertram Hönlinger
abenner
undecided
I have what seems to be the f2.8 version based on some quick informal tests I did. I was disappointed at first as I shoot in low light quite a bit. But I've found the focus shift quite manageable wide open after getting used to the lens. Either way, it's a simple adjustment by Zeiss if you change your mind.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
Yeah... i've read that article here and there
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
I had one and sent it back to be adjusted for focus at 1.5. liked it much better after that.
Frankly, I don't see the point in having a fast lens if you can't count on it focusing correctly when used at maximum aperture. But maybe that's just me.
Frankly, I don't see the point in having a fast lens if you can't count on it focusing correctly when used at maximum aperture. But maybe that's just me.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Wide open the shift is very small. It depends on the distance you are from the subject. If you are at the minimum focus distance then it could be a problem but from a longer distance the shift being small will not matter, i.e. are you focusing on the eyes or the nose from twenty feet at f1.5. If the shift is an inch will it matter (because you are focusing on the entire person)? For black and white it is a truly awesome lens and with color it is excellent, too. Its signature is outstanding.
pphuang
brain drain...
If you are looking for a "general purpose" lens, and this will be your only 50, then get it optimized for 2.8 and learn to compensate at 1.5
If you have lots of 50s and you just want this lens specifically for its signature wide open, then optimize it for 1.5.
Simple
If you have lots of 50s and you just want this lens specifically for its signature wide open, then optimize it for 1.5.
Simple
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
This is going to be my only 50.........
Steve: I do agree that the signature is outstanding !!
Steve: I do agree that the signature is outstanding !!
Lovely lens... Mine is the original f2.8 optimization, and I think that's the optimum compromize for me. When I shoot at f2 or f1.5 it's a special occasion and I can take special care by consciously focusing a little beyond where I want it to compensate.
I'd say that if you intend to use the lens wider than f2.8 much of the time, then have it recalibrated, otherwise no.
I'd say that if you intend to use the lens wider than f2.8 much of the time, then have it recalibrated, otherwise no.
willie_901
Veteran
As mentioned above, if the focus cam is properly calibrated, the focus shift (actually asymmetrical DOF) is not an issue except when you are near the minimum focus distance. Using my ZI-M camera, I have no shift problems at a focus distances of 6 ft or greater at f 1.5. My lens is optimized for 2.8. Of course focusing any 50mm lens at F 1.5 using a RF is tricky (for me anyway) at 6 ft or closer.
After reading all the posts about the c-Sonnar, my hypothesis is: some focus cams that work well on other lenses do not mate well with the C-Sonnar. The RF base may be a factor too. I have never experienced the large shifts reported by some.
After reading all the posts about the c-Sonnar, my hypothesis is: some focus cams that work well on other lenses do not mate well with the C-Sonnar. The RF base may be a factor too. I have never experienced the large shifts reported by some.
mfogiel
Veteran
The point is, this lens has been made in such a way, that at closer distances typical for portraiture (1.5 m), the lens renders at its best at f2.8-4.0. You get a sharpness dof of 12-18 cm, which lets you keep all the face in focus, and you get a background blur typical of a 1,2-1,4 lens at the same time. This is C Sonnar at its best, and if you optimize for 1.5 you effectively lose a chance to use that f stop range. Wide open, the lens is low contrast and totally dreamy like a Noctilux. You might also adopt my solution - buy two of them, one otimized for wide open, the other for f 2.8...
This one shot at f 3.4
This one shot at f 3.4
I sent two Zeiss C-Sonnar 50/1.5s to Cosina late last year with the request they be optimised for f/1.5. However, Cosina would not adjust them so that focus was perfect at f/1.5 and minimum focus distance. Instead what they did was adjust them so the actual point of focus at f/2.8 and minimum focus distance was more toward the back of the DOF and at f/1.5 and minimum focus distance was at the very front or just outside of the front of the DOF. In practice this worked very well.
I don't know if this is what "optimised for f/1.5" means, or if this is just how Cosina does things. I'd be very interested to learn what Zeiss in Germany considers "optimised for f/1.5" to be.
I don't know if this is what "optimised for f/1.5" means, or if this is just how Cosina does things. I'd be very interested to learn what Zeiss in Germany considers "optimised for f/1.5" to be.
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Marek, I love your photo... the gesture & expression... the way the lens does its magic too.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
mfogiel: Great picture !!!
Well i suppose as long as i don't use the lens any closer than 1.5m to the subject then i'd be fine.....
Well i suppose as long as i don't use the lens any closer than 1.5m to the subject then i'd be fine.....
I do not have a C Sonnar, but I do optimize my older Sonnars for close-up and wide-open.
This is with a Carl Zeiss Opton 50mm F1.5, on the Nikon S2. I shimmed the helical on the camera for the lens.
Wide-Open at F1.5, focus is on Nikki's eyes.
If you've ever used a Nikon S2, you will know why it is a perfect match for a Fast 50.
This is with a Carl Zeiss Opton 50mm F1.5, on the Nikon S2. I shimmed the helical on the camera for the lens.
Wide-Open at F1.5, focus is on Nikki's eyes.
If you've ever used a Nikon S2, you will know why it is a perfect match for a Fast 50.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
Aahhh.... the glow...