Zone system & filters

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Henk

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I'm studying the zone system, but what I can not find is information when using filters. Say I meter a blue sky an place it zone V, now when I put a red filter
before the lens, I know the blue sky will darken. When I meter the sky with red
filter should I place it in a lower zone, say III ?

By the way, are there any nice retro looking filter holders on the market for
the (voiglander) ragefinders ?

Thanx !
 
Hi Henk,

the filters should have (most of them in the ring itself) the coefficient number of stops that you have to compensate to get the same light. So if you measure a scene and, for example, get a reading of f/16 @ 250 speed, the red filter with 2 stops coefficient should be used with f/16 @ 60 (or f/8 @ 250)

Best regards,
Joao
 
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That's actually a pretty interesting question that I don't have an answer for. Say you meter a scene and figure out your dev+exposure. The filter won't uniformly darken the scene by X stops, but selectively. So you might, depending on the color of the scene and filter, end up with a scene that's properly exposed for the colors the filter will darken, but if the highlights are in the 'wrong' color they might not get darkened and rather blown out should you rely on zone system development.

Don't see much choice but to meter through the filter to get it right.
 
If you want the sky to be zone V, the red filter will knock it down to zone III (depending on red filter). So, you will have to open the lens 2 stops to bring the sky back to zone V.
 
I wish I knew the answer. cmedin has it right, but I do know that Ancel Adams used an orange filter almost on every shot. So, I guess the trick is to use the Zone System AND use a filter then see what happens. The next roll you adjust.
 
Thought with roll film, unless you have interchangable backs or shoot the entire roll under very similar conditions you're probably better off finding exposure/dev that gives you the most reasonable range on average and rely on paper grade to get good prints. :)
 
I do what you do cmedin, just shoot and fine turn my development. I do some other craziness in the ZoneSystem realm, but I'm not sure I have gotten anywhere with it.
 
The way I see it now is if I use a red filter the sky becomes III. This is the effect that I want. So if I meter (only) the sky, the meter will want to take it to V.
So I'll bring down the exposure with 2 zones. But I have have hurt my brain enough and as mentioned, you are right : a few testshots will give the answer.

So I'll just wait for my Bessa R to arrive from Stephen - I can hardly wait - and last but not least hope for some blue skies in rainy Belgium...

Thanx for the input !
 
The easiest way to compensate is to adjust the ISO on your meter for the filter factor.

Or else meter through the filter - the meter reads Zone V as usual. Then just place the tone (stop down 2 stops if you want it to be a Zone III tone). Then meter highlights through the filter to determine how to develop.
 
RObert Budding said:
The easiest way to compensate is to adjust the ISO on your meter for the filter factor.
Click to expand...
Joao suggested exactly same thing in post above.
RObert Budding said:
Or else meter through the filter - the meter reads Zone V as usual. Then just place the tone (stop down 2 stops if you want it to be a Zone III tone). Then meter highlights through the filter to determine how to develop.
Click to expand...
You're right if curves of spectral sensitivity of meter and film are very close. In practice, they may significantly differ.

Ed
 
Henk, you don't get something for nothing. If you meter your sky at V and use a red filter so it (the sky) will become III, you will also darken any area that is blue or most importantly, blue lite. No big deal you say, but all your shadow areas are illuminated by not the sun but the blue sky. So, you have a significant loss of shadow detail.

You are now back to a zone system problem of shadows that are not in the proper zones.
 
Yep, you are right CharJohn ! I'll have to take numerous shots and learn from them. I come from the digital capture and I have never practised the zone system nor used filters. But from what I've read the zone system seems a good thing to use in B&W film photography.

I just got hold of the 3 Ansel Adams books. Waaw, what nice pictures in it !
I think I will enjoy reading them.
 
Only problem with Saint Ansel's books is the language, they are pretty technical (too much so for many). I tried to read them a few years ago but gave up. Lately I have read numerous other books on B&W photography/zone system and feel I might want to give them a new try now that I know more of the background theories.

You might want to check out the late Barry Thornton's Edge of Darkness, Lambrecht & Woodhouse's Way beyond monochrome and Ctein's Post Exposure too, great books all of them.
 
Henk, one way to darken a sky, but not as much as a red filter and without destroying shadows, is to use a polarizing filter (I use the linear type). Set it for the darkest sky and the shadows are not effected (as much).
 
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